I don't think that you should do it or that your husband should do it.

You should both do it.

This needs to be POJA'd.

He could be rightfully ticked if he comes home to find you somehow trash talked his Mom (that might be how he saw it).

Or you could say "Grandma is mad at Mommy/Daddy right now so she doesn't want to see us."

We can do that. I talked to him today about how DD was crying for his mom, yet again. He did not even reply, just another "hmmm". He has been telling me for 2 weeks solid he will call his mom again. We are both feeling certain she will not pick up, however, but he says he needs to put forth another effort. Still nothing.

I am beginning to think I am the only person in MIL life that has ever "stood up" to her. My H has not, his father does not, his brother does not (actually his brother lives a couple of blocks away and won't see her outside of holidays).

I almost said this today, but refrained. I believe my 4 yr old already believes this, since she told me that I won't "let" her see grandma. I wonder what my MIL was feeding her on their visits.

I would keep my child away from this hoyden as much as you can.

If she acts like this, WHY do you want her to have any contact with your child at all? Children learn this dysfunctional crap at a very early age. It is beyond me why you are pushing this.

Maybe I am reading this wrong.

I am not pushing anything. We don't speak.

She is my H's mom. They talked every single day up until I asked her to start being respectful of our M.

I KNOW kids learn dysfunctional crap at an early age - hell, I know that is half the struggle with how my H and I handle our relationship.

She WAS being a typical grandma (though not seeing them a whole lot), baking kids cookies, doing crafts, spoiling them here and there.

I know what it is like to grow up without grandparents. Mine died when I was 6 (on my mom's side) and my dad's parents were not very involved and lived mostly out of state. I am also an only child. It was lonely not having family. It is one of the reasons H and I have 4 kids - we want to have a big, boisterous family to surround us as everyone gets older. Christmases, traditions, support, etc... family is important to us. Yes, my MIL is ... a quack, but she is still my H's mom and he loves her. My daughter loves her.

See, the reason that you should tell your daughter the TRUTH is so your MIL can't spin it. Think of it like you are exposing your MIL. You are telling your daughter about the actions that your MIL are taking that are harmful to your family and may cause her harm. I am NOT suggesting that you tell your daughter that your MIL is bad. Just let your daughter know that she IS surrounded by people who love her and care for her and there are going to be times when some people act in a way that we have to refuse to tolerate. You know that you did nothing wrong. You needed to stand up for your marriage. You did. Now your MIL wants to punish you for it. Let her have her 2 year old temper tantrum. Don't give in or what will you be teaching her? See how MB can also translate into the other relationships in our lives? It's AMAZING. Look at what you know from MB and see how you can use it in every sitch.

Thank you, Scotland. I think once (if) I get my H on board, he will could potentially have a good relationship with his mom. He thought he did, but it was actually toxic. For me, I find it relatively easy to enforce boundaries where people OTHER than my H are concerned. He has let his mom literally plow him over for years and it boggles my mind the treatment he accepts from her, and then the issues he and I have.

I appreciate your insight.

The very first time I met my MIL, I was at my H's house painting the master bedroom (I was getting ready to move in) a color he and I picked out together. She came into the house (she had a key) to walk his dog, not knowing I was there. I came downstairs to see what the dog was fussing about, and there his parents stood. She was SO uncomfortable! I was super nice and told them how nice it was to meet them, etc... she was clearly annoyed. She kept looking at tha paint roller in my hand. I explained that I was painting the bedroom, and asked if she wanted to come take a look (she seemed to be concerned about the paint roller). She comes upstairs, and just has a fit! "Oh NO, NO, NO, you MUST STOP THIS NOW. Oh no (this is her favorite word combo), this is terrible. I do not know how many times I have told that boy (H is 30 at the time) he has horrible taste in color. You have got to stop and pick something else out - this is no good". I simply told her with a huge smile on my face how we picked out the color together and how much we love it and how great it will look with our new bed we just bought. I thought she was going to pass out.

No joke.

Our entire M, she has been this way about any and EVERY tiny thing we do.

YES be honest with your 4 year old...you said dishonesty was one of your big LB's, yet you are willing to do it to your child?

Try this:

First ask what they think is going on with G-ma...start the discussion. You can fill in the gaps... If need be you can use something like this.

"Right now Mom, and Dad, and G-ma have a MISunderstanding. I'm not sure exactly what is going on other than G-ma won't talk to us. I can tell you my side of things if you have any questions, but I can't tell you what is going on in G-ma's mind or Daddy's mind."

Let her guide the conversation to what she wants to hear. She will probably want to know that she is still loved and wanted. And you can tell her you still love and want her, but can never speak for someone else. You can explain sometimes people get so angry and hurt they shut themselves off from the people they love. That you hope to be able to talk to G-ma someday, but right now you are waiting.

So, how much to explain about the type of person she is...well, you can explain about how YOU feel in the situation, angry, sad, hurt, and your hopes for the future...a relationship with MIL where she won't be hurtful to you...

Children understand a great deal more than they can speak... And if they don't have the answers they will make them up.

Obviously, since your WH was 30 when you married him, your MIL was used to "raising" him even when he was out of the house. She hasn't had much time to adjust to this. It seems that she is most likely guilty of committing AOs, DJs and SDs on everyone in her life. Some people are like this. We can't control anyone else's behaviour. All we can control is what we will allow others to do to us and how we react to things they do. You can help guide your child to her own set of boundaries and help her learn how to stand up for herself. Aren't those great lessons to teach her?

Ok, I do not use the same conversation policies with a 4 year old as I do adults. So no, I did not consider not telling my 4 year old her grandma is mad at me as the same as my husband lying to me.

Again, she is FOUR. I can see the above conversation with my older 2 kids.

"Let her guide the conversation to what she wants to hear. She will probably want to know that she is still loved and wanted. And you can tell her you still love and want her, but can never speak for someone else. You can explain sometimes people get so angry and hurt they shut themselves off from the people they love. That you hope to be able to talk to G-ma someday, but right now you are waiting."

I can do that above, however. Thank you.

Gdar, having had the MIL from hell... don't waste your breath trying to appease her in any way. Be honest with your daughter. Grandma is mad at me and your daddy so she won't talk to us. I KNOW she loves you but right now she's not behaving very well. Don't worry though, she'll come around. Wanna watch a movie?

Of course, you shouldn't use the same conversations as you would an adult but you do tell them the TRUTH. I am glad that you are going to tell her something. It just absolutely broke my heart that your 4 year old thought that you were lying to her about the death of her grandmother. She has a good Bullchit monitor and she knew you were not telling her the whole truth so she filled in the blanks. It would be a shame for her to lose that gift she has. Obviously, she is highly intuitive when it comes to half truths. That will help her in her life.

Yes! I work on this with my 12 yr old daughter and her peer pressure/bullying stuff at school.

You are right about my MIL. She knows no other way. I THOUGHT she was starting to respect me more as time went on because I did not accept that behavior from her. If she said something that I was not comfortable with, I spoke up. When she cut my daughter's hair without discussing it with us first, I spoke up (she lied and tried to say she did not cut her hair, just a small piece away from her eye). When she disrespects me, I usually say something - and I thought we were getting to a better place (we will never be "friends").

She told my H one day after she stormed out of our house in tears because he hung a picture IN OUR HOME in a place she thought looked "ridiculous" that he no longer listened to her or her opinions and only listened to ME. That pesky wife of his who let her husband hang a picture in our home where he saw fit. He gently tried to explain that he is married now, things change, but he eventually enables her to go right back to behaving this way. I flat out told her NEVER again. Do not call if you are going to put my H down. Do not call to complain about your H to my H. No one wants to hear one parent berating the other. She does it all of the time. It is not fair. Now she has no one to [censored] to (no friends, I wonder why), and I imagine she is going half out of her mind by now!

Lol Gdar. I ended up throwing my MIL out of our home one day when she had the audacity to tell me that I should have had an abortion with our second child because we couldn't afford him. 33 years later and we are civil but she knows better than to insinuate herself into our lives. We get along just fine now that there's an understanding. PM won't take her BS. LOL

WOW! That is pretty terrible!! I would have loved to be a fly on THAT wall! I believe the bolded is key. We are NO WHERE NEAR that, but I would love to be some day!

And it's a tough call, you want your DD to have a R with her G-Ma not tainted by your own feelings...but you want to protect her from MIL's manipulations. It's easy to do if there is a distant relative or friend that does this to our family...but a parent...that gets tough.

I have never willingly lied to my kids...even going to extremes to tell them the big Ol' Fat SC was a myth. The babysitter didn't agree with me, but I told her...if they find out I lied about SC then will they believe about G-d? (OK, so he knows everything, you never see him, but have faith he's around...hmmm, sounds familiar, are you sure Mom, that sounds like SC...)

I have answered every question. Even when the little one wanted to know about the birds and the bees...of course didn't go into detail, but explained about the mommy and the daddy and kissing and love and marriage and it takes two to make a baby...seemed to satisfy her.

Many people disagree with the amount of info I give my kids. But I felt really in the dark when I was younger about my family life because so much was a secret. If we are short this pay and they are asking for stuff, I tell them. I try to give them as much information as I can so they can make decisions also about the family and their life.

They are both pretty independent, they have plans for their life and some ways to get there... One is now driving and the other a pre-teen.

SHMI, thank you for your perspective. Telling your kids about SC! I am the opposite. LOL Once my oldest found out SC was not real, I threatened to never give him another gift as long as he lived if he ruined it for his sister. She believed in SC until she was 11! She is no worse for the wear.

I AM very up front, O&H about the birds and the bees, however. My son who is 13 talks with me openly about sexual pressures, his girlfriend, their "relationship". He is more mature how he approaches his "relationships" than many adults I know. I tease him that he has been in husband training since he was 3. He is amazingly sensitive, receptive, caring and selfless. Always has been concerned with other's feelings and thoughts. Super considerate. He will make a GREAT H someday.

My H has been totally checked out the past 2 days and I have 2 days of this left (today and tomorrow). I wonder if he will check right back in, or continue to be thinking about just work, even after his last day...

Make sure you teach him about how not to get suckered, then. Good H's tend to attract the high-maintenance batty women. Not always, but I have seen a lot of it.