Acting vs reacting?

Spur of the moment when I am initially outraged I react. ( took me about 4 sentence endings there before I hit the truth).


I reacted though by saying (although in a very sour tone). How much we were looking forward to him coming home and how Els had sadi she was looking forward to playing with him ( that in itself huge - because she rarely chooses to be with him). I guess this was also why I was so cross about it.

All the great work he had been doing and then he comes in in a [censored] like that. The kids were pretty good - they kept their cheery mood and patience while he continued to complain rahter than going out with them. I put my fingers in my ears and walked away.


He wasn't showing any signs of this strop before hand but I think I knew he needed a R conversation - of course he can't start - I have to. (oops tone of resentment sliding in there)


To deal with moodiness for myself: I put cheery tunes on and sing a long and I take EPO which helps too.

When J is in a moody one - I offer him time and space and the opportunity to get to the bottom of his feelings and let him know that he can say "NO". I give the opportunity for him to make choices or to POJA but I'm guessing that he is still making some wrong decisions for him.

Communication is the key - i let him know that i am happy and what I like and what I don't like. He can choose to do the same.

On the sex thing -I'm talking a couple of days after. It seems that everything else I do is just not good enough or I feel inadequate in all other areas. The last time we did it was mid feb ( before this w/e). He was a pig for quite a while after that.

I'm quite sure he will be lovely tonight - he is cycling home form work for the first time

Another update.

THings just plod along here. Neither of us really happy but neither of us unhappy.

Will I love him fully again?

I am so much happier withhim working normal days, but he's cross because quite often there is some chaos when he comes in

And I hate the rollie eyes and sighing.

Monday- I had doc appt so sis was here with kids and dog for me. Sis does take chaos wherever her and her 2yo go. But she was here with 2yo, her 5yo and my 2 and puppy. Chaos is just life in that situation - and actually underneath the surface chaos all that washing was up to date and the house was tidy.

Yesterday- we got infor the day about 5 mins before him. On my way in I stood in dog poo (while looking for it) and then not realising it walked it through the living room hall and bathroom. When he walsk through the door I'm cleaning up, so I call to him "watch where you put your feet"

More grumbles and gorans about chaos.

Which is rellly ****** annoying because apart from a trip to the hairdressers (which he didn't notice - and it is quite dramatic) I spent the afternoon sorting out things that normally I might have left to him.

The perpetrators course is currently about how abuse and DV affects children. He commented on a few things the first week - but it made me angry at him and at me for allowing him to be a s41t in front of the children. Since then of course he isn't sharing any. I didn't AO at him.

HIs boss commented on the way he phrases things negatively or without consideration. Something that I have said to him before and he dismisses me. Butnow his new boss has said it he appreciates that he might need to work on that.


He isn't really doing anything worng but I just don't really like him enough and it's hard to get on to make things better.

whine over.

I am sorry your update is not what you were hoping to post. I can sense you were needing/wanting to post something more upbeat.

ST

Thanks Gdar and Lil

You know when I originally was going to post it was certainly more positive.


When you look back and see just how far we have come it is huge. I don't hate him most of the time anymore.

THings have moved on loads round here, they're just not quite as good as I thought they were before I started that post.

So it seems that recently if i post to my thread, I post a little rant or moan just to get things off my chest. Nothing major, just the occasional blip.


But recently I have been thinking about how far we have come.

J doesn't very often AO. We get on very well day to day and are civil in nearly all areas.

This Sunday we cut grass and hedges, cleaned oven, bathrooms, 2 kitchen cupboards, cleared out shoes and coats from hall and porch (got rid of 10 pairs of shoes and about 5 coats) without any bickering, sniping, irritation and in fact the 2 of us working very very well together as a team.

So we have come miles...

However I still feel this wall jump up (from me) if I think about being affectionate towards him - even a peck or if I think about brushing past close to him- I just feel awkward and uncomfortable and sometimes a part of me just wants to run the other way.

If he approaches me for affection I can deal with a hug or quick peck but anymore and I freeze.

Where do we go next?

To counseling...

Maybe a vacation or weekend together without the kids...

Another step forward for sure since there is no point in going backward.

Meet the four IENs during extended UA time (you are doing actual UA time, right? 15 hours per week?)

Church couldn't hurt either.

Mark

The four IENs

affection, SF,RC ,Conversation


Affection - we show each other affection by acts of service not in UA time. He shows physical affection a couple of times a day, we sit close on the sofa and sometimes he rubs my feet (if I ask) and he had a sore neck so I rubbed that for him the other night. We hold hands but not very often in UA time.

SF - can't get that close

RC - I try and try - I'd really like this to be away form the house and the 2 of us start a new hobby that we can really enjoy and share. But he doesn't want to a) spend money, b) involve family to babysit so I have resigned myself to gardening with him as our form of UA time (not quite POJA). And I don't know what will happen in the winter when it is dark in the evenings.

Conversation - I am interested in his job and i engage him in conversation in that, he always seems very bored by anything I am doing - it's polite conversation more than nitty gritty stuff. I have let him know that my lovebucket feels at it's fullest when we have had R conversation or are discussing plans together but... He is also s'posed to discuss the stuff from his perpetrators course but he hasn't been - they've headed into the affects on children module and he's finding it tough to process and dicuss his guilt. Discussing this would also draw me closer to him.


Every now and again I suggest the Church thing but he doesn't want another commitment and getting more time tied up (thought it might help with convo and RC).


I suggested to him that maybe I need counselling to be able to get close to him again and he didn't discount it - which is a big turn around. He actually went into his perpetrators course and asked them for that kind of support for me (without me asking him to).

Timetable:
Monday- perpetrators course - we sit down alone and have a special meal afterwards each week (2 hours)
Tues - Band - I won't give that up
Wed - evening together time we can plan (2 and 1/2 hours)
Thurs - Volleyball (his commitment isn't so good, so we quite often have thurs) (2 hours)
Fri - (2 and half hours)

Weekends - have this w/e with sis's kids so that her and bil can have some UA time and they will returnt he favour at a later date.

and then 5 hours of evening at the w/e if I don't have a gig or J isn't off out with the boys

So I guess we get 11/12 but we're not making very good use of them except on Monday night.

I would like to find UA time away form the home so that the temptation to veg in front of the telly isn't there.

A few hours RC would go miles (for me) I think.

ST,

Not like the old days around here with people jumping in to offer advice almost like SMS or IM is it?

If we think of MB as having been the invention of Dr Harley, then in order to make it work we need to look at what his instructions for use might be in order to gain maximum benefit from his invention and ensure that it works as he intended for it to work.

Dr Harley says specifically in Effective Marriage Counseling that the four IENs should be met together as a block within the time devoted to UA time spent together. This is because these are the things that create intimacy in a relationship and until we are alone with each other, we can't actually meet them for each other very well.

If your ENs of these four are Affection and Conversation and his are Recreational Companionship and SF, then how are all four of these being addressed if it is not happening during UA time? SF becomes more likely if your Love Bank is full as the result of a day of getting your ENs met and you feel connected to him as the result of being shown Affection and having intimate Conversation. If the day was spent in a recreational activity, with you as his recreational partner, then HIS EN of RC is getting met as well. This only leaves SF at the end of a very fulfilling day.

Now this is the theory in all of this, but the way it works, and the only way it actually works is if it is actually done this way. Love Bank deposits can't be sufficient to cause a state of Intimacy unless massive deposits are made to overcome the normal negative consequences of interacting daily over stressful daily life.

When we're dating, we fall in love easily because almost everything we do together makes deposits into each other's Love Bank. We have almost entirely GOOD experiences together. But once we marry, daily life together means that we are with each other when bad stuff happens as well and it is these negative interactions that cause us to fall out of love with each other.

So while avoiding those things that make massive withdrawals from our Love Banks is the reason to do away with Love Busters, unless we are doing things specifically to make the largest possible deposits, the balance continues to fluctuate around Conflict and Withdrawal rather than moving into Intimacy. All the little things we do along the way add to the balance, but because negative things happen to us as well, some not even related to our own direct interaction with each other but simply the result of living together day after day, then it's like putting spare change into the bank to try to raise enough cash to make the house payment at the end of the month. ALL deposits are good for the balance, but some really make the balance skyrocket and others only help it to keep from falling to zero.

Because life happens...

And happens...

And happens...

And much of life is not something that makes us have positive experiences when with our spouse.

Mark

Yeah. What Happened to them? Pleased to see you still hangin' around

I can't see a way through to actually be satisfied in M. BUt for now that's fine - the children have 2 much more happy than miserable parents and are doing well.

I'll keep hoping for the lottery win that will mean J will fork out for a babysitter so that we can spend some time together.


Or I need a radical way of thinking how to get UA time in -maybe we sell our house and live in the caravan , give up our jobs and start claiming benefits.

Have so many people dropped o the boards because they don't have to pay for babysitters and activities to do together and are therefore finding UA time impossible?

I just don't get the rollercoaster that is M.

I went out of my way to get things in good shape for J to come home yesterday - taking note of his previous respectful requests about thursday night.

But I got it so wrong - in meetin is request for calm when he got in - I Had already fed the children which meant that he was angry because he couldn't eat with them. He was very off.

I was very annoyed that I had a made a real effort and it was all wrong - and I hadn't thought about him etc etc.

So when he came in from vball later I didn't want to talk and explained that it was because I was annoyed and why and he continued to try to talk. I knew it wouldn't be productive, because I would very likely AO. When I didn't respond he told me to enquire about divorce this morning.

I'm fed up of him throwing that line at me, and it is my day off, so that is what I am going to do. I am going to see if I can get an appointment about divorce.

Done as he said. Made an appt with a divorce solicitor. Been investigating legal aid - which I am eligible to if I want to go domestic abuse. Would rather keep that out of it for the children though.

He seems really p'd off with me since I told him I'd done as he asked.

I am so fed up with his "well we might as well forget it" " get in touch with a solicitor" " there's no point"

I'm cross. This isn't what I want or what I have been working for.

If you don't want a divorce, don't do the work. Tell him that if he wants the divorce, he must do the work. Once again he is telling you what he wants, and you are doing it. Think he might change his mind again? Maybe he is telling you what he thinks you want to hear rather than what he really wants. Basically, not being totally honest with you. Use your female intuition. Since doing what he tells you he wants keeps failing, try doing what you think he really wants.

I don't understand men either. It's tough to get things just right for them.

I don't think he really wants it although last night he said he wants it 75% and that he would be quite happy to split every thing down the middle - including his salary and we go our separate ways.

I feel that he uses divorce to control me into forgetting my needs or to do what he wants. If I stick to my guns it makes him angry and even more negative about US.

Then if I say "let's go for it, you talk about it a lot which is really getting me down"

he says fine " but I don't want any contact with the children" because he knows that that really panics and distresses me. Actually - he hasn't said that this time. So maybe he really does want it - just isn't brave enough.

It's just a shame for the most part we get on well, we just don't meet each other IENs and I don't know how to get it.

In a R which was previously even more abusive I will not subject myself to the trauma of "fake it 'til we make it" with SF and actually J doesn't want me to try - when I have,he feels the pain it causes and the emotional disconnect - I can't look at him and then it isn't pleasurable for him anyway. With the affection: I can do it and typing this is just reminding me that I need to replace the negative thoughts with the thoughts of how much he has changed...
although that might be hard now I feel I am being controlled with D again.

Funny. He's decided he doesn't want a D anymore. I will stillfollow through with the appt.tomorrow then.

I reminded him that we were going to do the Online course and what he thought of that now and he didn't dismiss it - yesterday.

Today, although he said in the previous sentence that he doesn't want divorce, he said that he thinks wer're too far gone for the MB course.

Instead "why haven't you got on and arranged he counselling so that you don't get really withdrawn every time I AO or do something wrong?"

I wish I oculd run away for a few days and unmuddle all this.

ST,
Why do you want to remain married? Marriage at all cost? Kids? Principle? Religion? Love? Fear of the unknown? Why?

You need more training to handle HIS AOs? I wish you could run away too.

ST,

I've been trying to figure out what to say to you and have drawn a blank. You know my willingness to help either or both of you in any way I can, but this is well beyond the do it yourself stage.

The whole thing about the MB stuff is that you can know it all, be familiar with how and why it works and even what prevents it from working like it should and none of that does you a tiny bit of good.

It isn't until you actually begin to DO the MB stuff that it does anything at all.

According to Dr Harley, whenever there is any conflict, how you attempt to resolve it is more important than actually finding a resolution. Preserving your Love Bank balances is of greater importance than fixing ANY problem.

Now there are ways to get through to a spouse who isn't on board that might or might not work. But some of those things that can be tried take a lot longer than most of us are willing to wait to develop and when we aren't getting our own needs met, our Taker demands satisfaction.

Would you guys consider looking at a program that can help you with getting things on track? I can send you the link if you are interested.

Mark

Kids,Money - because I know -I know that i am not doing all i can

Actually I think I just need a really god cry (hmmm typo) good good cry