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I am a FWW who just joined these forums. I just bought Dr. Harley's "Surviving an Affair" yesterday. I am halfway through the book already and something that stands out at me is that Dr. Harley shows empathy for all parties and his philosophy that there is fault in ALL parties of an affair: the BS, the WS, and the OP. EXCUSE ME, but the posters are showing this poster great empathy but telling him the truth about the despicable crime of adultery. It is not "empathetic" or "compassionate" to whitewash adultery. It is what it is. And nowhere does Dr Harley say it is the FAULT of the victims that a WS chooses adultery. Adulterers are 100% responsible for adultery. WS's wouldn't be here if they didn't want help...BS's wouldn't be here either...and sometimes a POSSIBLE FUTURE WS contemplating an affair needs to come here too for support and help...which I think TO is in this situation. While you were out committing adultery I was here HELPING cheaters just as I am today and have been for the past 9 years. If you think that saying nice words about evil is helpful or compassionate, then you don't have the slightest idea what is helpful. What is certain is that this forum is for marriage buildng, not for adultery. This is one of the few boards on the internet where the truth about adultery is spoken. So if someone is lookng for support in pursuing adultery, they are in the wrong place.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Okay, now I have read all the other stuff. It gave me a sick chill. I remember putting out those "feelers" to see if anybody out there might sympathize with my sad plight JUST IN CASE.....not that I would ever cheat. Blech. That "wondering" led to more dissatisfaction, more resentment, which led to wishing it were "okay", which led to too much fraternizing.....which led to HELL.
Did I hurt when I cheated? Yes. Did I bring it on myself? You bet. Did I deserve compassion? Not until I repented my sorry butt and changed.
Did the OM suffer? I am sure he did -- I didn't ask. Did he bring it on himself? Yep.
Who were the real victims of my adultery? J, K (9 at the time), and J (7 at the time). THEY were the ones who deserved compassion.
And I'll say this. I was a foggy idiot when I ventured to this board the first time. And I lied through my teeth. But later, after members were certain I was changed.....I have gotten tons of compassion, advice, kicks in the pants, encouragement, and laughs. So it's a great place to be...as long as you really want to save your M and not destroy it.  .. Oh wait Luri...Dont forget your cows... ![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/lillamu5-756439.gif) ![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/cow.gif)
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. 
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Ok...Affairs stem from ENs not being met by the other spouse and instead of communicating needs and giving the BS the opportunity they seek to have them met in another person instead of their spouse...Is that better? Blaming your affair on the victim is about like the rapist blaming his rape on the rape victim. ["she made me do it!! she was wearing suggestive clothes!!"] show me an adulterer who blames her crime on the victim and I will show you an unrecovered wayward mind. Here is what Dr Harley has said about this: You will hear Joyce and I repeat, "there are reasons but no excuses." One of the reasons for an affair is that emotional needs are not being adequately met in marriage, which makes an affair that meets those needs more tempting.
But the same thing can be said of some who rob banks. They may be out of work, need money to pay the rent, ask for a loan but are refused by the bank, which makes robbing it more tempting. One reason for the robbery is that the bank refused the loan, but it wasn't the bank's fault that it was robbed. On hindsight, a bank might have helped the robber get the help he needed through social services, but the bank is under no obligation to do so, even though they advertise that it is a "caring bank."
An affair is different from robbing banks in that a couple have promised to be more caring than banks. But the principle is the same. The lack of care by one spouse does not excuse harmful behavior by the other spouse. Even when one spouse absolutely refuses to be affectionate, or to make love, or to talk intimately, or to join in recreational activities with the other spouse, it gives them no right to have those needs met by someone else of the opposite sex in an affair. They have the right to separate until the other spouse meets those needs, or even divorce when it becomes obvious that there will be absolutely no cooperation (there are many who strongly disagree with me on that point).
But an affair is so cruel and so painful that nothing any one spouse does (including having an affair themselves) can justify the suffering that an affair causes.
Making a disgraceful act more tempting by someone is no excuse for that person committing the disgraceful act. Besides, in most marriages, there are times when emotional needs are not being met for reasons beyond anyone's control. That's why I recommend extraordinary precautions to help spouses avoid an affair. They are to not allow anyone of the opposite sex to meet their need for affection, or intimate conversation, or recreational companionship, or sexual fulfillment. When those needs are met, they deposit so many love units that you are likely to fall in love with that person, and make you hurt your spouse in the worst way possible. I hope that explanation helps.
Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am a FWW who just joined these forums. I just bought Dr. Harley's "Surviving an Affair" yesterday. I am halfway through the book already and something that stands out at me is that Dr. Harley shows empathy for all parties and his philosophy that there is fault in ALL parties of an affair: the BS, the WS, and the OP. EXCUSE ME, but the posters are showing this poster great empathy but telling him the truth about the despicable crime of adultery. It is not "empathetic" or "compassionate" to whitewash adultery. It is what it is. And nowhere does Dr Harley say it is the FAULT of the victims that a WS chooses adultery. Adulterers are 100% responsible for adultery. WS's wouldn't be here if they didn't want help...BS's wouldn't be here either...and sometimes a POSSIBLE FUTURE WS contemplating an affair needs to come here too for support and help...which I think TO is in this situation. While you were out committing adultery I was here HELPING cheaters just as I am today and have been for the past 9 years. If you think that saying nice words about evil is helpful or compassionate, then you don't have the slightest idea what is helpful. What is certain is that this forum is for marriage buildng, not for adultery. This is one of the few boards on the internet where the truth about adultery is spoken. So if someone is lookng for support in pursuing adultery, they are in the wrong place. Didnt want my last post to make this one get missed...Whew, Mel I was wondering when you were coming back...
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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I never once said an affair is a good thing, just was looking for perspectives. I never thought they would be so harsh. I lost my only Brother. My dad died a slow death from cancer. My mom had a bilateral mastectomy in her fight with cancer, I was her care taker during this. My first, and only biological child was miscarried. On a scale of one to 100, those rank a 4in emotional pain. My wife's affair rank 101. You need to read the material here, and fix your marriage.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Geez, Gack, I am sorry....You have been through a lot....
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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...You asked about having "sympathy" for cruel behavior and to that I have to say:
misplaced sympathy gives power to evil..... Awesome Mel. You never fail to amaze me.
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((Gack That was a long distance, side pat on the shoulder. A hug would not be appropriate. Yes, Mel is awesome O/T - in the spirit of radical honesty I want still to amend her age...mooooooo
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Okay...I updated it...moooooooo
Last edited by stillhere8126; 06/18/10 09:07 PM. Reason: teeheehee 29 teeheehee
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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Tom, read this ((Gack
That was a long distance, side pat on the shoulder. A hug would not be appropriate. The reason Lurioosi2 says this would be inappropriate is because she has Extraordinary Precautions in place (EP's) This is one of the many principles you can learn here. You CAN have a mutually fulfilling marriage, you do not need, nor in the long run want...An affair. (Gack is now silently waiting for Pep to say she is proud of him) 
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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This poster reminds me very strongly of someone else.
tl
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BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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This poster reminds me very strongly of someone else.
tl Share with the class? 
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Does his name begin with a b????? Just a random letter.
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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I thought about making a humorous poetic reference, but am not sure if it would be a TOS violation so suggest that someone is double posting. No, the name I am thinking of does not begin with "b". There's just enough similarity between musings about unhappy marriages and looking elsewhere for fulfillment that it made me wonder. Oh, and the other thing, too!  tl
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I hate not knowing what's going on....but after 42 years, I'm used to it.......
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To those who see unmet emotional needs as the cause of an affair,
Is it really possible to avoid an affair simply by not letting yourself begin to think that an affair is right or even OK?
There is no viable reason for doing what is wrong, what you know and acknowledge is wrong and that you know will hurt someone else, especially the person you promised to forsake all others for. Whether your ENs are being met or not is not just cause to knowingly hurt a spouse in order to get your own emotional needs met by someone else.
It is a breakdown in thinking that leads to an affair. It is when you believe that you can define too far as some line that you will recognize as being a line and so anything up to the line is fair game and not infidelity. It is calling it a line not to be crossed when you are already on the road that leads to adultery and the line is only the center line of the highway that keeps you from crossing into oncoming traffic and having an incredible wreck.
The infidelity happens when you think you can be just a little unfaithful and it doesn't matter, because you haven't gone too far yet. It happens when you choose to push aside your own spouse in order to remain focused on the person you claim to not be cheating with though you in the process of doing so are cheating your spouse with every thought of your affair partner, even BEFORE, LONG BEFORE, you ever cross some self defined line that tells you that you went too far. You went way too far when you didn't turn around when you found yourself enjoying even the thought of allowing another person to meet your needs.
Cheating happens when you act from pure selfishness and from not caring at all about your spouse.
You can try to deny that if you want to and claim that you'd been unhappy for years and had tried to tell him so and you had done everything you knew how to do and he still wasn't giving you what you need...
And NONE of that negates the statement that you were selfish and acting as if you didn't care about your spouse's feeling. You see, while the right thing to do can sometimes be described as situational, cheating/infidelity/adultery and other wrongs can never be situationally right. Circumstances, no matter what they are, do not make adultery a right thing to do...
Under any circumstances...
At any time...
For any cause...
It is always wrong!
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I thought about making a humorous poetic reference, but am not sure if it would be a TOS violation so suggest that someone is double posting. No, the name I am thinking of does not begin with "b". There's just enough similarity between musings about unhappy marriages and looking elsewhere for fulfillment that it made me wonder. Oh, and the other thing, too!
Hmmmmmmmmmm.....
Last edited by stillhere8126; 06/18/10 09:31 PM. Reason: add quote...thndrnltng
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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I hate not knowing what's going on....but after 42 years, I'm used to it....... Well, frankly, I'm not sure I know what's going on either...which is the main reason I'm not being dogmatic about it. Where is that Schoolbus anyway? tl
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Does it begin with a "T"? Just a random letter.
Last edited by stillhere8126; 06/18/10 09:32 PM. Reason: Iman idiot
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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