YEG, I have felt this way too. Like you I have placed strict EPs on my life to ensure I do not cross the line. But oh boy are there days that I really want to. I acknowledge that those feelings are currently rooted in the pain and anger I am feeling, and in order to save my M, I have to move past those feelings. You seem to understand that as well, so I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in those feelings.

I can tell you, going to the gym to work out is a good thing for my health, but man, it's hard to keep from fantasizing about what it would be like to be with all the attractive, single women there.

you ever wonder if she gets on here and reads your posts? i hope so.

i don't have to tell you this, you've obviously got the boundaries in place, but don't cheat. you already know the moral reasons, so i'll cut to the strictly practical ones: your conscience will beat you to DEATH, even if you never get caught.

look at it this way: you're facing the same temptations WW faced, and you're not tossing her over at the drop of a hat. and if anyone has fertile ground for RIGHTEOUS resentment and desire for recompense, it would be a betrayed spouse. glad you're aware and glad you're mindful of boundaries. protect yourself. there are predatory women out there on the prowl for mistreated husbands.

look, you've probably BEEN encountering temptation left and right, and are just now aware of it because you've been so focused on WW. be aware of attention from other women--it'll help you stay confident when WW is at her most difficult--but don't seek it. the last thing you need right now is a frickin Special Friend. if you resist it, you'll always be able to look yourself in the eye and KNOW you were always the good guy and that you did your level best to save your marriage, regardless of the outcome.

(worst case scenario, girls have a soft spot in their hearts for single daddies who get custody. awwww. sort of a wounded-soldier type thing.)

YEG, you deserve a happy marriage. i hope sincerely that it'll be a happy marriage to your current wife. don't let her make you sad and bitter and forget that you love her. even if you're basically resigned to amicable divorce at this point, don't lose hope. guard against expectations, but hang onto hope.

p.s. look, i know i'm always giving you these hyper-optimistic Pollyanna posts--"oh, excellent, she's on a hysterical crying jag? she's punching holes in the sheetrock with her bare fists? super, that means she's feeling remorseful! hooray, the fog is dissipating!" i'm not trying to paint you a picture, here, i'm just hoping for the best for you guys.

You need to show indifference. The only time you shouldn't is when she's on FB in the house and contacting him. That is when you should man up, turn it off, and tell her she can hit the road but that you won't be disrespected in your own home. Say it without anger. Offer her a cookie after you shut off the power to the computer.

YEG, it's all about being cool, indifferent, and carrying on with your life.

You deserve better. Showing a willingness to kick her to the curb says a lot more about how much you respect yourself than anything. The fact that you have papers moving forward is good. Have her served so she gets her dose of reality.

Forget all the drama she's spewing at you. It really is very simple. Commit to the marriage, accept that you guys have things to work on, and then get to it. If not, then she can hit the road. Life is too short to be spent worrying on a cheater and there are too many fine women in the world to worry about a disfunctional drama queen.

Would James Bond be dealing with all this drama?

WHAT YOU SAID, HELP/DADS!!! LOVELY ASSESSMENT, SIR!
p.s. YEG, you can't fake indifference. if you've ever been in sales you know what's up w/ Indifference, Fear of Loss, etc. Help/Dads here is on point.

I KNOW she doesnt. Its blocked on her computer.


Despite her best attempts she hasnt yet. Thing is she was NEVER cruel to me in person. We didnt fight ever. She just pushed me away slowly over the years. I let her since I thought she needed space. The only thing she ever did horrible to me was the A. Of course thats about the WORSE thing you can ever do to a person.

I still love her. Im still IN LOVE with her. She is just being distant. From the outside it wouldnt be bad but since thats what she has been doing while she was in the A for YEARS its more of a trigger than anything else.

Amicable isnt going to happen. She is going to lose everything she has and will probably end up bankrupt. She might lose custody of DD5. I got a pretty good case since she makes HORRIBLE decisions. She lost her job due to fraud against the govt. She lost her top secret clearance. She participated in a 2 year A where she would pawn off DD5 so she could F(* a animal like the OM.


i know you are. I see it too and i want to interpret every one of her actions like she is coming back to the M. I use to. Id get all excited. Then the rug kept coming out from under me. After you slip on that banana peel a few times you REALLY lose those expectations instead of just telling yourself no expectations. It just hurts too much.


he was only married for like 10 minutes. He didnt have a chance to even cheat on her.


Of course I deserve better. I have real doubts she will ever truelly commit to recovery. I wouldnt be surprised if im in the same predicament in a few years. maybe an EA then. maybe she just runs away. maybe another PA.

I will try to set boundaries. I will hope she buys into the MB program. I just have my doubts. She has been miserable for so long. I think she has been depressed for so long that it is all she knows. She just a sad person. Maybe its due to her being in a EA that turned into a PA. Maybe she has a chemical unbalance in her chemical levels in her brain. She wont take medicine though. My sister thinks she probably has a personality disorder. She wont get help though.

If I didnt have DD5 id leave her. It would be the smart move. I would get out SCOTT FREE. I just cant not honor my M vows. I have to be able to tell the wee one that I did everything I could for us.


Of course its that simple. It is to you, me, her parents, my parents and the brick wall over there. Waywards are sometimes thick skulled though.

Welcome to YEG's boring blog entry of the day.

Non event last night. i went running for about 3 and a 1/2 miles. It sucked because it was HOT as all get out.

Got home and watched DD5 for a bit so WW could take a break. She ran on the treadmill and later went to her parents. She got home and cooked a pretty nice dinner. Chicken a la orange with some rice. I was sure to thank her for it.

After dinner she just read a book. I checked on her and she didnt need anything. Ended up leaving a bit later.

One thing i have noticed over the last few days. Her facebook time has cut WAY down. Computer time in general. maybe she actually IS thinking about WTF to do with her life. Maybe the prod the other day helped. maybe her dad is pushing her harder.

FIL warned me about deadlines and ultimatums. Said it would likely push her in the wrong direction. Dont really care anymore to be honest. I expect her to leave regardless. Will hurt but wont be a shock. MIL and FIL will fight my case while I PB I think. They dont want her living at their house with a 5 year old on their dime.

If she tells me she is leaving it relieves me of any guilt I have for serving her. What she going to say? I was going to recomitt to the M and give you the best B&*^(*B of your life!! Now im not because you served me divorce papers because I told you I wanted a seperation!

YEG:

I have followed your story for quite a while and I admire what you have done.

However, I believe you will likely fail with your current plan. I believe your WW is still in contact and in the affair.

If she is NC then she has absolutely nothing in her love bank and she does not love you and may never love you again.

You describe an extremely detached distant woman. From your own words I do not see any chance for success.

Furthermore, your WW has done this before. She left the current OM for you once. Now she has reconnected and she could very well be planning to leave you. These patterns tend to repeat, remember you once said you were the OM at that time.

You are only 33 years old!!!!!!! Do you know how lucky you are to be 33? YOU ARE A VERY YOUNG MAN!

Without trying very hard you could easily find a nice 25-30 year old single woman with no baggage that will love you and treat you like a prince for the rest of your life. You are exactly what these women are looking for.

I understand you have a strong desire to bond with your WW again. That is quite natural in the aftermath of D-day, but this will pass if you go NC or Plan B.

In my situation I stayed married because I was 53, had five kids (that did not know mom was an adulterer), and my WW worked her butt off to be a great FWW. She stopped the affair and worked very hard on the marriage. She even posted here as a FWW.

In your case: You are very young and have a highly disinterested WW. Even if she weakly decides to try I don't think her heart is in it. You will end up with years of chronic pain instead of a much shorter acute episode of pain if you proceed with the divorce.

I suggest you stop being to attentive and proceed with the divorce. If here is a chance for you this may very well be the only way to get your wife back.

Its probably not as bad as what I make it out to be. Its not as good as it could be though. Maybe going to PB and making her see her family turn on her will help.

It might make her wake up. Dont know.


Ill see how it goes. Its bad. I know. I dont wanna give up yet but I see the writing on the wall.

I do agree that she is very disinterested right now...just wanted to clarify that YEG was NOT the OM....she wasn't married to the OM. He has said he sees now that he might have been in the middle of them when they were engaged but I did not get the impression he was in a sexual relationship with her even. Also, I remember he said he did not speak to her for 8 months when he believed she had married the OM...when one or the other made contact again after 8 months he was surprised to learn she had broken off the relationship.

So while it is true she has a history with this OM....I wouldn't say she left him for YEG and certainly YEG was not the OM.

I'm sorry to say this, I really am.

But, I believe that Stanley has nailed it.

Like my WW was, you wife is so far withdrawn that it will be damn near impossible for her to come back. The ONLY way back is with a full commitment, 100% effort from the both of you.

It was clear that my STBXW was never going to give that effort and I'm afraid you are in the same boat.

YEG:

I did not mean to say you were an OM---------I get the picture. However, this issue is that she has done this before and most people tend to repeat their behaviors and do not change.

I believe your only chance of saving your marriage is to actually start divorce proceedings.

I suspect your WW is too far gone or she is still in the affair.

I also worry about 25-30 years of unhappiness in the horizon with WW. OTOH, you could be extremely happy with a brand new woman and a fresh start.

I know this is a marriage saving web site and i actually saved my own marriage, however there are times when one must initiate the divorce.

Here is what happened. I was dating her when I got transferred to another port 1000s of miles away. We were doing the long distance thing.

Meanwhile her OM she was engaged to at the time was about a 1000 miles away.

She told me they were engaged but we continued to talk. She would [censored] about her fiance to me and I would talk trash about him because he was being a jerk. I cared for her but nothing but nothing could develop I understood. Before my 6 month deployment I asked her if she still intended to get married to him. She said yes. Ok I basically said goodbye because I had no intention to mess around with a married women. Basically I was in a EA with a engaged women.

As far as sex she was saving herself for M. SHe didnt have SF with me or him. I dated her for years without any intimate contact. So while she was engaged I admit we kissed but that was it. So maybe it was a PA.

I came back from me deployment and waited a couple of months. I got curious and called. I found out their wedding was on hold indefinatly. We resumed talking and I transfered back to her state. She was still bitching about the OM and saying how bad he was. I fed the fire.

Shortly after I got back they called off their Wedding and we started dating. It was maybe a year after that when we started having SF. I was not her first coincidencly that was a Married man she dated for a while.

I think the A is dead really do. She may just be too far now. She may be willing to work on the M. She has implied that she is holding back somethings because she doesnt want to lead me on.

Problem is I want to give her a chance. At the same time I dont want to waste time if she isnt going to commit. If she isnt able to give me an answer I dont see any reason why not to serve her.

Yep I dont want the nagging doubts and what ifs that I will have to deal with. I feel I have to put every effort into it. IF it still doesnt work I will walk away with my head held high.

I appreciate the input. Recovery is VERY tough and if I call off the D I lose alot of my power. If I had to go PB later it wouldnt be as effective since she would have alot more wiggle room legally since I forgave her.

Every M cant be saved. I realize that.

Seriously, it was only a matter of time before this happened. If you do get divorced, you need to do one hell of a better job choosing a partner in the future. You should have never married this woman in the first place.

I think you need to go through with the D and plan B if for nothing else than to "break her" and get her to hit rock bottom so hopefully she comes to the realization that she can't continue to live the way she was living even before you got married. I'm not so confident that she'll ever change. She seems like a spoiled little daddy's girl who feels entitled to everything. Maybe hitting rock bottom will give her a "come to Jesus" moment.

Regardless of the details.

She has done this before and now she is doing the same to you. She has simply reversed the components of the equation. She probably tells OM how horrible you are. On top of that she also dated a married man in the past.

History is very important. It is not what people say, but what they have done in the past.

YEG: You are a very young nice man. Do not forget that!

My wife came from a family of cheaters and those memes are hard to break. Your wife may not be able to change.

Im sure she did. I know she complained that I wouldnt take her anywhere. So what that I was at work. Didnt matter.

I dont forget but i am my own worse enemy. I KNOW there is life after D.

Its my love of family and need to take care of people that make me such a desirable mate. Im not willing to corrupt my values and risk guilt down the road though. She may have sold her values down the river but I am not willing to do that.

I hear your message loud and clear though. I want to keep my options open. I will welcome her back to try if she is willing but she has to make some changes too.

In the aftermath of D-day there can be a huge desire to bond. In my case I had an insatiable need to have SF 24/7 and my wife also participated in the hysterical bonding. She ended the affair, was committed to rebuild the marriage, and went through withdrawal. Nevertheless it was pure hell and something I will never forget. My life was changed forever.

My wife was a best case scenario for rebuilding a marriage and it was still a very hard thing to do.

I know you have this uncontrollable desire to bond and get your wife back. This desire is so strong that it clouds your mind and perhaps you could act differently in a year when the desire to bond is less.

Maybe you are unaware of how you write, but you describe a WW that is not interested at all. This could be a very long laborious road that ends nowhere and before you know it you will be 43 instead of 33.

I mention age because at 33 you are in the prime of your life and have the best cahnce of finding a great woman.

One more thing: Pay attention to the red flags. Your WW came from a family of cheaters and she had shown you she was capable of cheating and to be involved with married men. Your WW waved the flags and you did not see them or perhaps you wanted to ignore the flags.

This will be a great learning experience and you should consider DIVORCE.

I totally agree with all that Stanley said above. I believe that is new information that she had an affair that went physical with a married man before she married you. THAT says a lot about her...she clearly didn't learn any lessons from that early life SIN because she has continued doing the same thing. Apparently marriage is not sacred to her.

There is a possibility I may be transitioning to PB soon. So i went ahead and made a first draft for yall to take a cut at.

=======================================================
Dear WW,

It pains me to have to write this. It is truly sad what has happened to us and our marriage. The direction that I must go now is not one of choice but of necessity.

I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those. What I have been able to do is recognize the error of my ways and have learned from those so I can prevent them in the future. I am truly sorry for helping to create and environment that has made it possible for your affair to OM possible. I did not realize how much you needed help with DD5 while I was on the road. I wish I could go back and take you on those trips away from the house. I never meant to make you feel like a shut in. I now see the things that I was lacking in. I just didn't understand how important that was to us.

The past 2 months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. My only saving grace is the memories of the love we once shared, of the all good times we have spent together, your extraordinary qualities that led me to ask you to spend your life with me and thought of us being together, someday happy again. Unfortunately, I now find those thoughts and feelings are slowly eroding away. Before I lose any more of the thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take steps to protect them.

WW, as you know I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past and make our marriage together stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One, in which we both feel loved, safe, honored and cherished. I simply can not continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage until you completely break from OM and recommit to our M. It has become too painful.

Until that point, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. To this end I ask you move out the house asap. I do not wish for either of our bonds with DD5 to suffer any further so I propose we split time with DD5 equally. I will take DD5 thursday, Friday and Saturday. You can take DD5 sunday, monday and tuesday. I will have DD5 one wendnesday you the next. I also will call DD5 every night that I dont have her to tell her good night and I invite you to do the same. I ask that we use MIL, FIL or M and F for these exchanges and to make that nightly call. I also will call DD5 every night that I dont have her to tell her good night. FIL has agreed to act as a intermediary for us. Any message you would like to relay to me I ask go through him.

For financial assistance I will begin paying you $600 a month apon you leaving our home or till a judge approves a formal seperation agreement. I will add you to my health insurance when you get me your paperwork but I ask you reimburse me. As for the cell phone You may either stay on our shared plan and reimburse me for half the bill or see your own plan elsewhere.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know torturous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with <OM> . I simply cannot be in contract with you any longer without your recommiting to the M. This separation is a necessity to preserve my love for you and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery!

I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to construct a plan to ensure a total separation from OM. Until that time I will continue to pray for our family and us.

In my mind I will keep the vision of us takeing those trips together and loving each other in a M that both our needs are being met I still love you today; I just can not be with you or help you until you are willing to recommit to the M.

Your loving H
BH

================================================

This is borrowed heavily from the PB letters in the notable posts section.

As far as entry into PB I emotionally can actually take more. With my wife withdrawing though I feel I cant take the risk of calling off my D complaint. I want to give her more time to decide but feel its in my best interest to give her this time in a PB scenario.

The risk is too high that she will string me along inevitably risking my bar to alimony and custodial parent plee. While this isnt the optimal entry into PB I just do not have the confidence that she will ever come back to the light. I feel my WW will be a renter in our M as is.

PB will let her hit rock bottom and I will find out if she is truelly committed to the M.

With the OMs transfer to Europe I simply cant risk her getting custody and taking DD5 away from the country and from all her family.

If I go to PB I will likely fire a parting shot at OM through his command. Ill send his command the evidence and claim he contacted her again. I cant really prove it but it doesnt really matter since I will still get my violating a direct order claim addressed.

Honestly I dont think he has contacted her but i dont care. Why not if im going to a PB situation anyway when i have doubts that she will ever really make a good try at recovery.

==========================================

As far as the rest of the ever shrinking PA string I did a little good today.

We were cordial at the house. i brought her home her favorite coffee from starbucks. She enjoyed it. From there I left to take DD5 to Vacation bible school. I hung out at my parents for a bit. She has already left when i got back. Gonna send her a Good night text and hit the sack.

Ill post some boundaries for yall to have a cut on tommorow in case she does want to come back to the M. Hope springs eternal.