Last week, Rizos asked me about my feelings towards one her sisters. I have previously complained to Rizos about my issues with their relationship. Rizos asked me point blank if I wanted her to end contact with her sister. My answer was yes - I'd prefer we don't have contact with her. I am not demanding or asking her to break her relationship with her sister but I am requesting that we POJA the issue.

Rizos states that not having a relationship with her sister is an LB for her so she feels this is a deadlock where one of us will inevitably end up with a bankrupt LB$ This is an emotionally loaded issue for Rizos - there have been tears when the issue is discussed and suspicion that this is yet another way for me to control her.

Do you have any ideas on how we can resolve this matter or recommendations that we can throw at POJA negotiations?

I'll appreciate your comments or suggestions.

Thanks

El Camino, take it to Dr Harley and let him be the bad guy. You know what he is going to say.

You're right ML. I'll take it to the good Dr. Just wanted to run it by here so that I don't go bothering Dr. Harley with an out of whack question.

Thanks

--ElCamino72

EC, I'm not sure this is the best attitude right now.

Recovery, and getting to where you can start recovery, is a process. It is a marathon, not a sprint. I'm glad you guys are at a better place right now and this is certainly a great opportunity to advance things. But, there will be many more downtimes as well as many more good opportunities.

Try to take advantage of the favorable turns when they happen, and also try to work through and not dwell too much on the downturns.

I can see some of myself in you, in that we really dwell on the negative or what we perceive as the way things should be done. Unfortunately, acting on these obsessions is always viewed as controlling by our spouses.

Hello schtoop,

Hope you're doing well. BTW, I'd like to see an update to your thread.


Yes, this process is a long grueling marathon.

The way I see it is that in order to participate in the real marathon which is recovery, you need to go through qualification races (Plan A and possibly Plan B). I am currently running the Plan A race. At some point in this race, I realized that I needed to take the pace down a few notches to save myself for the later legs. Now I am going to increase the pace for the last push. Depending on the results of the Plan A race, I get to know which one follows.

The balance that I�ve been trying to figure out is that I don�t want to burn myself out or get injured in Plan A which could prevent me from having the opportunity to participate in the other races. At the same time I want to run fast enough to qualify directly to the M recovery race. It's not a sprint but as a contested race, the pace of the last lap is bound to get really fast.

Thanks

--ElCamino72

EC,

She's with you and not him, has NC with him, talks to SH on the phone, posts on MB for advice...You're MILES ahead of most of the field.

Qualifying races ended a long time ago, my friend. This is the one that counts. You are either going to win or lose based on where you finish THIS race and not some hypothetical future event.

The way things go under MB is that you learn what her ENs are and begin to meet them. You also learn what Love Busters you commit and rid your life of them entirely.

At the same time, she is learning to do the same things. You each learn at a different pace; you each learn the most important piece of the whole thing for your spouse at a different time in the process and you learn to handle conflict in ways that actually cause your love to grow for each other instead of destroying what is left.

Now here's the thing, you start learning this in Plan A, you keep learning it in recovery and you keep learning an applying it for the rest of your marriage. There aren't any breaks. Slow downs don't just slow progress, they reverse it. In a MB marriage you will meet her EN, avoid Love Busters, follow POJA and PORH and spend ever more time with your wife until one of you dies. That is what a MB marriage IS.

Now just so you know, it isn't always so crappy, but triggers are gonna happen for a lot longer than you want them to and you are going to have days you want to run over her with the car. On those days, you have to meet her ENs and avoid Love Busters, follow POJA and PORH and spend time with her. Those are the things that overcome the crappy days, EC. If you need a break, take a short break to clear your thoughts so you can control AOs et al and get on with the program. If you take a day off or a week vacation from building your marriage, the work already done will erode and you'll have to do it all over again.

What I'm telling you is you don't get to save energy for later because this IS later. And just so you realize that your analogy isn't falling on deaf ears, I was a runner. I never did a full marathon but did 10 K and 5 k routinely and ran the mile and two mile in high school, sometimes both at the same meet. I ran marathon distance on occasion just not for time. (made the 1000 mile club one year) I understand that feeling of "I am so tired and there is so far to go and I just need to catch my breath and..." Marathon guys called it "the wall" and when it hits (you don't hit it, it hits you) you either quickly overcome the desire to stop and rest or your race is over. Sometimes it hurts like hell and sometimes you feel like you will die if you don't stop for just a second or two. Your head might feel light, your feet hurt, your legs feel like lead, your heart is telling you "That's all she's got, Captain" and your lungs went on strike about 200 yards before you knew they were unhappy with their contract. You just KNOW you will die if you don't stop right this second...

And 5 minutes later you are passing people who didn't figure out how to get past that feeling as you begin to build toward the Finnish. The guys who win this event are the ones who overcome the desire to quit and rest. THAT is why people call it a marathon and not just because it takes so long. You can't win it in the first mile, but you can lose it in the first 10 yards.

Mark

A good way to POJA sisters:

Get specific about the nature of the complaint:

What is is about her being around her sister that bothers you?

• Rizos behaves disrespectfully when she gets home from such a visit?
• Do you feel that she doesn't talk about you kindly behind your back?
  
• Does she dress or talk in a way that was similar to when she was cheating on you?
• Is her sister openly disrespectful of you?
• Is her sister engaging in affairs?
  
  

Get really specific about what it is that bothers you. Is it something Rizos does in your relationship while under the influence of SIL, or is it SIL's behavior and attitude itself?

If it's something Rizos does and can change, then POJA that and see what happens. If it's SIL, Rizos can work on being a peacemaker and laying down some boundaries that she won't tolerate SIL disrespecting you under any circumstances.

Make sense?

EC,

I have updated my status. Thanks for the push.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2313483&page=17

Hi Mark,

As usual, you make excellent arguments. However, I would like to fully understand the logic and remove some doubts about my course of action.

So it seems like I may be handling R with the wrong plan. I�ve considered myself to be in plan A since Nov. Are you saying that I should be approaching the process like I�m past the plan A part of R?

I am content with being "ahead of most of the field". Our process has many things going well. For one, exposure and business pressure quickly killed OM's side of the A after DDay. So that helped us where others have struggled tremendously.

Additionally, I am really happy that we are both learning to practice MB concepts. Counseling with Steve Harley and the Weekend program are HUGE pluses. We�ve been acquiring the tools to create and maintain a great M. One where Rizos and I can be deeply in love.

However, for various reasons, I don't sense that we're running in the path to a great M. Yes, the circumstances have helped to stop the A but many times I find that my compass points that we're headed to our previous M. That's a place I don't want to go back.

I am willing to prepare and run the toughest marathon imaginable but I want know there is a significant prize at the finish line. I don�t want to run just for the sake of it or to obtain a marginal place. I want to train and compete for the big purse: a great M. So, how can I measure that we're running to win?

Thanks

--ElCamino72

Hi KA,
There are a number of things that bother me about SiL including:

• SiL divorced her previous husband to shortly after marry her current husband who used to be her boss.
• SiL�s husband has a constant need to tell me how much money he makes and how good he is to his family. He�s gone as far as pull me to the side to question my dedication to my daughters. If one of my relatives would be that disrespectful to Rizos, there�s no doubt I�d be all over their case.
• SiL took the role of "fashion advisor" to Rizos which led to a radical make over a couple of years ago. For quite a while I used to think that Rizos wanted to look like a twin of SiL. I never felt comfortable with that look. I�ve always noticed that SiL makes comments about Rizos look that I feel to be disrespectful.

BTW, Dr. Harley responded to my question regarding SiL in the Weekend forum in this thread: POJA SiL. His recommendation was for us to avoid contact with until we�re more advanced in the R process.

Thanks

--ElCamino72

EC,

What I'm telling you is that if you are holding back, waiting to see if the prize is worth the effort, you will never get the prize.

The only way to get the top spot is to go all out unless you have so much more talent that you can run just hard enough to win. The problem is that you don't even know what your competition really is and unless you give it 100% you are going to end up without much of a chance of getting what you want.

Or for the poker fans, you can lose everything by going all in, but you can't win unless you do.

Your wife is watching to see if the changes you made in Plan A were real and lasting or if they were a trick to keep her from leaving. Since the changes were all things that you need to be doing for the rest of your life anyway, why not just do them full tilt right from the start?

Instead of worrying about whether or not she is going to be the wife you desire, be the husband she needs to become that wife.

Meet her ENs, avoid Love Busters, follow POJA, remain radically honest, spend time with her...This is how you get a great marriage and how you keep a marriage great long term. Just do these things because these are the things that will create deeper love for each other. Solving the "issues" won't make you fall in love with each other. Delving into the problems of FOO stuff won't make your marriage great.

You married because you fell in love. Your marriage began with so much potential because you fell in love. Your marriage took a turn for the worse when you fell out of love with each other and other stuff took the place of falling in love. Fall in love again. THAT is what will give you the great marriage you BOTH want.

Care
Protection
Honesty
Time

Like Nike says: Just do it...

If you do those four things, you will be able to solve any problem OR you will be in love even if the problems never get fully solved. The answer to a great marriage is being in love with each other, and doing only things that keep you in love with each other while doing NOTHING that makes you fall out of love with each other.

And you can only control what YOU do to that end...

POJA
PORH
UA
Meeting each other's ENs

When something needs to be fixed it is more important to avoid hurting each other than it is to fix the problem.

Marriages fail because people fall out of love with each other.

People fall out of love with each other because they don't provide Care, Protection, Honesty and Time.

Why run a race at all if you aren't running to win?

WINNING is the prize, not the trophy you receive.

You can't win if you don't run fast enough and long enough to reach the finish line. You can do your best and lose, but you can't do less than your best and win. You can't run half way and win. You can't run half speed and win. You can't give half effort and win.

If you are going to run...

Then RUN!!!

You don't have to sprint, but you have to keep running...

Walking or taking a break will NOT get you to the finish in first place. There is no trophy for analyzing the value of the reward. Winning IS the reward.

You don't have to lead every mile, just be in the lead when you reach the line but you can't get to the lead by taking a break or a detour along the way.

I guess I'm done 'cause I'm out of ways to say it...

You can't get a great marriage by taking a break from
Care
Protection
Honesty and
Time...
These are the things that make us fall in love.
They are what make a marriage great.

Mark

Mark,

So is it

Care
Protection
Honesty and
Time...

?

I notice there's a pattern in your message . OK. I get it.

Nothing to lose and everything to gain. So here I go. Watch me put blinders on and run like I belong in the Kenyan marathon national team.

Thanks for your patience.

--ElCamino72

The crazy making has been recently bringing the worst out of me. Living full of anger and resentment is not where I want to be. A couple of weeks ago, I sensed that my end of the rope was near so I resorted to completely ignore Rizos.

What�s making things worse for me is that we now have the tools. So there should be no excuses. Our biggest problem has been the implementation of the POJA. My tolerance for IB is now very low. Specially for behavior that Rizos knows will hurt me and she still continues to do it without consideration.

We had a session with Steve today and things are a little calmer at home. Still, I can�t help to feel down and lonely. Today is my birthday but I just can�t shake some bad memories from last year's birthday. I am fighting to stay afloat. I guess that�s why they call this process "surviving".

Looking forward to better times.

--ElCamino72

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{El Camino}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am so sorry you are having a rough time.

EC,

Sorry you are feeling down, my friend. Don't lose your hope because it is what gives you the will to continue trying.

Some of what you are feeling is likely "simple" triggers. Brush up on trying to manipulate your own emotions through active changes in what you think about. (Managing Memories from my sig line)

Mark

Happy birthday, El Camino.

Be glad for the life that you were given and not its burdens.

Rejoice!

I understand a lot better what Mark referred in one of his posts above as "the wall" when making the marathon analogy.

Last week I was convinced that my M had finally fallen apart. But all of the sudden I am now back in the good race. It's amazing how a little turn of events can get you back on track when you thought that you were completely lost.

Big lesson I learned: don't loose hope - gotta fight through the rough patches.

Thanks for your support.

--ElCamino72