Think of cutting her off financially as part of the stick of Plan A. You are not going to enable the affair in ANY way. Have you read the thread about the carrot and the stick of Plan A yet?

End the lease - you should not be financing her single lifestyle. In any case, if you intend to "Plan A" your WW, that's likely going to be a lot more effective if she's under the same roof.

If she continues to be dishonest, then when you're tired of Plan A, your next step should be pretty clear.

Your situation reminds me a lot of what I went through.

Here�s the reality. There may not be a one specific OM. There might be several that she�s enjoying getting attention from and setting up dates with. Being out of the house makes it very easy for her to meet up with other guys from the internet.

In my situation there wasn�t any one specific man but several. She told these guys that she was in the process of divorcing, which was not true at all.

Understand that you can�t believe a single word that comes out of her mouth. Also understand that counselors generally have their heads up their butt and don�t know how to read a cheating spouse. Mine told me that this was some phase she was going through, would eventually snap out of it, and then come back to the marriage.

It�s time, my friend, for you to do something which is very hard for BH�s to do. It�s time to grow a pair, lay down the rules, and then start following through.

Yes, you can Plan A. But Plan A doesn�t mean you�re a doormat.

The things you need to do to recover your marriage will tick her off to no end. But the number one thing you need to do is to cut the crack pipe. Quit funding the things she�s using to cheat on you.

When she gets ticked, you simply say that you will treat her like your wife when she decides to act like it.

The things you need to do to save your marriage are counter intuitive, will upset her to no end, and are hard to do.

But you strike me as a man who has the mental capacity to understand this. You�re in a good place for guidance.

Lostdads - where do you stand now? How well did this step work for you?

Also - Maninmotion - are you telling me to "invite" my wife back home in order to not allow her the opportunity to have that "secret life"? Am I correct that I should only do this IF she agrees to 100% openness and honesty?

I don't want her to come home unless I'm SURE - in part because I don't want the kids getting excited that this mess is over, only to have her move out again and break their hearts after a few months.

I mentioned this in your other thread, The Carrot and the Stick. Here is the post, you should read this and study up on Plan A. I never had to do it so I hesitate to say too much but this is a great thread.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1518204#Post1518204

How do you counter the argument that we all deserve our privacy? Just ignore and it and restate your position? I guess its not worth your time trying to convince them that they are wrong.

And now I'm asking for a little "emotional" support here too I guess.

This has been so hard to deal with after having been married with no major speedbumps for 14 years.

Her first EA started on the Saturday before Father's Day last year, so I guess that makes this our one year anniversary of [censored].

Last night my wife got a little emotional, saying that she really wanted to end her lease and come home. I told her that I couldn't live with her while she was spending so much time on the laptop doing something that is supposedly none of my business. I told her that I'd been doing some reading and I'm starting to believe that I will never feel better about her online/iPhone activities until she's willing to allow me access to her phone and computer. Her response was typical - she deserves privacy. She shouldn't have to choose between having a husband and being able to use the computer. I said that I shouldn't have to be married to someone who isn't willing to share their life with me and shouldn't have to live in a constant state of wondering what my wife is doing.

I was firm but kind. I did not make this an ultimatum - yet. I understand that I need to, but I'm just finding it hard.

Thank you for listening.

I�m divorced now and am going to remarry soon. It�s not the answer you want to hear.

The greatest regret for me looking back was that I didn�t secure my rights as a dad up front. It took a long and arduous battle later to do it.

As far as your question about privacy: There�s a difference between privacy and secrecy. Privacy is closing the bathroom when you�re going. Secrecy is doing things your spouse would obviously not approve of and keeping them from them.

A marriage is a partnership that depends on complete openness and honest. Part of the vows is to �forsake all others�. Friendships of the opposite sex are dangerous and should not be engaged in as individuals but as a couple. If a friend isn�t a friend of the couple, then they could be a threat to the marriage.

So when she rants about privacy, ask her if she�s protecting her privacy or if she�s protecting her secrecy. What is so bad that she can�t share with her husband?

The greatest thing I could have done in my situation was to let go of my emotions and function on logic alone. The reality is that women are a dime a dozen and you can find happiness again. A cheating spouse is an abuser. There�s little playing around with them. They should be grateful for your willingness to forgive their indiscretions.

Your WW is actively flirting with other men. The best dose of reality you can give her is the hard slap of reality that getting thrown out on her butt has. She is cake eating.

I commend you for holding your ground, but I would cutoff her financial support. She can get a job if she wishes to use her computer and phone to flirt with other men. You won't pay for such abuse.

The choice for her is simple: committ to the marriage and be open, or get a job and support yourself because you as a man won't stand around to be disrespected as she is doing so now.

My "dime a dozen" comment applies to men as well. Betrayed spouses do best when they have little tolerance of the wayward behavior.

Those that beg, plead, whine, and mope do the worst.

You're not the latter, thankfully. Stand your ground and stand by your principles. You'll look back with pride that you did.

I personally would counter it by saying:

* We are married, and everything we do affects one another, so we deserve to know about it.
* We are married, and we are one.
* I will not stay in a marriage with someone who keeps secrets from me.
* (And I would ultimately make good on point 3, through a Plan A -> Plan B -> divorce. And personally, I would feel no obligation to Plan A and Plan B, depending on circumstances.)

I agree with helpthelostdads. I honestly think you maximize your chances of recovering a happy, healthy marriage if you adopt his attitude. And even if not, I KNOW you maximize your chances of recovering your self-respect and your own personal happiness. If you set the bar low, your wife will live down to it. And you will be miserable. If you set the bar high, your wife might live up to it, or she might leave, in which case you'd know for a fact it's better to be away from her.

Why not give the Marriage Builders Plan A/Plan B route a try? Plan A has a carrot and a stick. Part of the stick is that you do not tolerate adultery or adulterous behavior (including secrecy, lying, dating, and courtship behavior).

That isn't right nice777guy,
If she isn't doing anything wrong she wouldn't have a problem with giving you access....stop being so nice.
Tell her if she doesn't give you access and stop you from wondering what she is up to then she is choosing the comp over her marriage, that it's her choice...
Tell her that unless she is willing to proceed in an honest, transparent way that the two of you should move forward and she should start looking after herself if she wants a private life.....
Why would she change her behavior right now, it's easy for her, she really isn't feeling any hardship by making the decision she is making......
Don't be so available, let her feel what life would be like just her and her comp.......
I think you are being very reasonable, but maybe it's time to make her decide which one it is.......
Can you imagine yourself living with this doubt the rest of your life?
You deserve someone committed to you........

The last two nights we've discussed my need for openness and transparency. Last night we discussed it in therapy. I made it clear to her that she cannot move home unless she allows me access to her "life". I directly asked for all account info and passwords, and told her I wanted to set down with her and have her show me her iPhone and how she uses it, and that I need access to her laptop.

Night before last she said I was being ridiculous. During therapy, she was angry and defensive. The counselor - who in the past had defended her right to privacy - changed the tune and helped by reinforcing that my wife has a "choice" to keep secrets and do as she pleases. And I reminded her that I have a lot of choices too.

And yes - the "positive" spin - was for me to say that we'll BOTH be miserable if I continue to feel I can't trust her.

AFTER therapy, we talked for another 30 minutes in the parking lot. My wife quickly went from angry and defensive to being vulnerable and hurt - saying that she's confused and unhappy (which I completely believe).

So - where we left things - I'm not going to spend time with her while she continues to hide such a big part of her life from me. She can choose to be open or she can choose privacy - but privacy does not benefit the marriage. If she doesn't want to give me her account info, I told her that I was willing to listen to other suggestions, but that I needed to KNOW what she was doing.

I stopped just short of giving her an ultimatum. And no, I didn't threaten to cut off funds. But I did tell her that if things didn't change SOON (end of summer/August is the deadline in my head to have transparency) that we need to move on to a more formal, and potential legal separation, including establishing separate finances and having as little contact as possible. I told her that this distance would be necessary to keep her from completely killing the love that I have left for her.

She left promising to change. I've heard those promises before and don't have my hopes very high at the moment.

niceguy, I tell you what would probably save your marriage and lift your wife out of this depression. Cut off her money completely. Tell her since you are separated that you won't be paying for her affair pad anymore. She is a big girl and can finance her own pad. Tell her she can't come home unless and until she agrees to very specific things:

1. no more computer time - give up her computer

2. complete openess and transparency with her phone, whereabouts, no "privacy"

3. commit to marital recovery program with the Harleys

Go present her with this and see what her reaction is. I bet she tries to negotiate the conditions, ie: "I will not give up my computer! blah, blah.." Don't argue with her, just say, "ok, its up to you to accept or reject my plan. I will understand if this deal if too tough for you." Then leave.

Give her a plan B letter telling her that you love her but will have no contact with her until she gives up her destructive lifestyle and commits to a program of recovery. Set out a schedule of visitation [not in your house!!] in the letter and designate an intermediary for all essential contact about the children. Plan B means to go dark as night, she should never see, speak or email you. You have to close off all avenues. That means changing the locks.

Then go down and file for divorce on grounds of adultery, abandonment. Let her be served in her apartment.

This will give your wife 2 much needed things, niceguy, the motivation to change and a PATH BACK. You cannot lose with this plan, because if she doesn't wake up, you will have lost nothing and are legally protected. Your children are legally protected.

Your current plan is nothing more than enabling, niceguy. You are contributing to the demise of your marriage. If anything will wake you wife up, it will be this plan. And if she doesn't wake up, you are better off without her.

Give me a break.


This "counselor" has just about completely destroyed your marriage. Do you not see that? She has given you dreadful advice that has led to you to this sad state. And what is sickening is that you probably pay money for this.

NG, this counselor doesn't have the slightest idea how to save marriages and anyone on this board who has saved thier marriage will tell you that. Her advice is completely counter to what Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist and founder of MB would tell you. We have saved our marriages using his advice, yours is going down the tube.

Listen to what Melody is saying here. I encourage you to steep yourself in this site reading everything, getting the books either here or you maybe can find them in the library. Maybe you could send her some particular quotes that would start her interest? Things about building romance and love and having fun together again? If she likes her computer so much get her interested in the program and then send her here. The incredible, wonderful people on this site will set her straight very quickly thereby relieving you of some of the hard parts. Key log her computer first so you know that she is here. Some people like to keep this site quiet understandably because they need it. My husband found it all by himself so we both posted and it was essential for his recovery. Ask Melody, he was a real stinker and she actually gave him an award! (Melody, I can beat that one with something else he said earlier but I refuse to post it)

Set your goals, your bottom line. Make them very clear and write them out. Read them frequently and get a copy to her. Make sure she understands them and then do not waver. It is hard to be nice while having to do this but remember your goal and suck it up. Stay strong, stay pleasant and make yourself seem like the best and safest place to be.

I think, on balance, you�re doing well. The decision to cut off finances is not an easy one, but it is never easy to do something hard against someone you love and who you feel is simply misguided.

The fact is that your wife is basically using her computer to flirt with men. Mine did the same thing. She has the opportunity to meet with these men, go on dates, and do so in a manner that you don�t know about since she�s not living with you.

Your situation reminds me a ton of my own. You have a wife is was constantly sick and you stuck by her side. Things get better and she forgets all the sacrifices you made for her while she was sick. She instead wishes to be single again.

Don�t think for one second that she�s not flirting with other guys online, if she doesn�t have a specific one already.

She is cake eating. She wants to stay married to you yet she wants to keep flirting online.

The counselor has his/her head up their a$$. There�s rules in marriage. Maintaining secret relationships in a marriage is, by definition, destructive. It has nothing to do with privacy and has everything to do with secrecy. Call it for what it is. She is flirting with men online. She is using the internet to maintain secret friendships with other men. She has already had two emotional affairs. This is still happening.

Your counselor needs to be called on it. Ask how your wife would feel if you were the one flirting with women online and had a history of having emotional affairs on the internet.

Right now you need to guard your finances. Trust me when I tell you that a wayward will clean you out when she gets the chance. Mine took out most of our account and deposited into another one she created for herself. I trusted her and thought she�d never do such a thing.

You moving your finances is protecting them from her behavior. She�s not demonstrating that she�s responsible in the least.

Let her know there are consequences to the two paths she�s on. The path to the marriage is the easiest. All she has to do is commit, drop all secrets, and come home.

The other path is being cutoff. I suggest a Plan B before you divorce. You have nothing to lose by doing so. A Plan B means that you file to get a separation with a custody arrangement putting you as the primary caretaker of the children, getting her for child support, and suggesting to her that the path to the fantasy life is one where she will lose a lot more than gain and that you will NOT be a �friend� if your marriage fails.

Those are her options.

I admire what you�ve been able to do so far. I wish I had been as strong as you. Now comes the real hard part. Lay down the options and follow through on them.

Plan B means you cut her off completely. She can support herself if she wishes to pursue this avenue. You have no obligation to her if she wishes to continue to behave like a single person.

Also, stick to one thread.

I think this is where many BS's get mixed up. They confuse compassion with enabling and there is nothing compassionate about enabling. It is like handing a shotgun to a suicidal person. The compassionate, caring thing would be to help his wife STOP her destructive behavior, not to aide and abet it.

Plan A questions...

Do you keep the fact that you are doing something called Plan A a secret? It almost seems like if I sent her a link to this site, or allowed her to see my Surviving the Affair book, I would lose a bit a leverage by allowing her to see my gameplan. Also feels I'm not being 100% honest if I hide it.

Trying to understand how to make the marriage seem appealing while also making sure she understands my new boundaries. Seems hard to do this without nagging or Lovebusting. I've asked for all passwords - her response has been to stay off of her laptop. I feel a bit better, but staying off the laptop for a short time isn't a long-term solution. She's also cut back on her iPhone activity and she's started reading people's facebook updates to me - I guess in an effort to "prove" what she's doing. So - do I push her everytime she's on her phone, or do I just periodically - once a week, once a day - remind her of my boundaries?

Another question.

Just being very, very honest here.

Sometimes I just don't feel strong enough to take some of these steps. Some of the steps make more sense than others. I am finally begining to realize that access to everything is NECESSARY, while for the longest time I really wanted to believe that we could rebuild trust while maintaining some normal level of privacy.

Right now, cutting off money, doesn't seem "necessary". First of all, I would expect that we would split all liquid assets - right? If so, with half our cash and her current limited income, she'd be just fine for about a year (I've crunched the numbers and have a good feel for what we have and what she would need). So there would be no immediate effect.

And yes - I AM afraid of watching someone I've been married to for 15 years, dated for 4, and was very close friends with for 4 years before that - crash and burn. I WANT to help her.

Its also hard, trying to compare 14+4+4 years of a solid relationship with 1 year of absolute [censored]. I keep thinking the "her" that I've known since high school will come back soon - and I spot the old her every now and then.

This isn't easy. And although I appreciate the direct advice, I sometimes wonder if people don't forget how it felt when they were knee deep in it.

So you are saying you ARE supporting her with her A's? There is NO excuse to help her financially right now when she is doing this to you, after the D yes, by all means I know there is some things you would have to help pay, but right now? While she is hiding all of her A's? I don't think so, my husband changed both accounts and didn't put my name on them, he told me that he is not supporting me while I am in the A, and I TOTALLY AGREE!!

Who cares if she is your wife, she is not the same person you married, right now you are just meeting all of her EN's so she can have both of the worlds to live a single life with a husband to support her with her $$$.

Let me ask you a question...

When you are supporting your WW with all the finaces, is it making her understand what she is losing?

Is she crawling back to you with arms open?

Is she giving you all of her passwords?

If all of those questions is a big fat NO, then do yourself a favor and CUT ALL finances, and have her live with what she has!