YEG, i have no constructive criticism at all. nothing to add or subtract. if this letter doesn't prompt a change of heart, nothing will. well, maybe plan b will. and not to be a crass materialist, but maybe that $600 a month will. i like the diplomatic way you phrased the cell phone bit, too.

i haven't stepped in w/ any of my typical Pollyannisms lately because sometimes you guys just need to talk man-to-man. you've got other BHs' take on it, but YOU know your wife. i think if you truly believed you'd married the wrong woman, you'd have thrown in the towel long ago.

i think the fellows would agree that this letter shows a healthy level of enough-of-your-bull****; i don't like the term indifference because you're not indifferent, you're just prepared to live a happy life with or without her, and it won't break you if she jumps ship.

the onus is on her now. poo or get off the pot, WW. glad to see you've got your conditions for reconciliation firm in your mind, can't wait to critique.

stay strong, sir.

The letter to Plan B shows YEG has a lot of class and is a nice guy.

In my life I have seen many controlling women that gravitate to nice men. I still think that YEG and the wife are not a match.

I believe the letter is way too nice and this is to be expected from a gentleman like YEG. The words are so nice that the WW may think that the letter is a bluff and not pay much attention.

I personally prefer a dry approach in a polite manner. I would add an explanation, but I would make sure it is not flowery.

WW believes she has YEG in her pocket or under her shoe. She will take YEG for granted as long as YEG shows any sign of being very available to her.

Romance 101 dictates that too much availability kills the passion or interest in many relationships. What makes a relationship exciting is the possibility of not having a secure relationship or competition. In fact, the competition of OP often creates that desire of the betrayed spouse to bond again with the wayward spouse.

If WW ever comes back it will be because YEG intends to divorce her.

The vets will probably be by later to modify your letter, so hang onto it.

Stan the Man. I haven't read up on your thread, but i like your take on this situation. actually, no, i HATE your take on this situation, but only because i don't want to believe that's WW is irredeemable. the only part i disagree w/ in your quote above is the bit in bold there. i thought the letter showed admirable restraint. i couldn't write a classy plan b letter. i would grit my teeth and bear it until the only coherent words i could manage would be, like, " eff you, get out of my house."

the part i agree with most is your parting sentiment--
"if WW ever comes back it will be because YEG intends to divorce her."

i told him before, some people can't EVOKE their own pain--they can't come to a point where they say, "OK, self, you've screwed up. let's look at alllll the ways in which you've screwed up. let's think long and hard about the import of your actions. and now let's figure out how you can make amends." some people have to have pain handed to them by an outside party. if the threat of impending loss is what it takes to snap her back to reality, so be it, if she's willing to straighten up and fly straight.

i also think YEG's inherent niceness, which we all recognize, means that he can graciously bow out of Plan A with the right motive: preserving the love he has left for W. do we want him to tough it out until he can't help but hate her? GOD no. he's aware of his internal threshold for bs, and he's stepping out while he still has it in him to be kind.

yes, it sounds to me from YEG's posts that WW loves internal drama and thinks that star-crossed love must be the truest and most intense of all. i admit as a woman w/ a taste for bad guys that availability and security are less intriguing than distance and indifference. but why should YEG alter his personality and go from pillar-of-strength, man-for-all-seasons type guy to some type of black-hat villain just to appeal to her sense of mystery? becoming a man he's not to satisfy her whims...that sounds to me like the definition of wussy-phipped.[/b]

Maybe. I have to go through the process. The beauty of it is that it works either way. Her indifference is killing my love for her.

I LOVE roses. I have over 200 in my yard so ill compare my love to her to a rose.

My love is like a rose on the bush. When I discovered the affair that rose was plucked from the bush. Instead of just dropping it on the ground and stomping on it with AOs and DJs I choose instead to bring it inside and place it in water by educating myself and choosing instead to fight for her. Even in the vase the roses luster is starting to fade now. The petals are drooping and a few have dropped off. The rose just can't survive forever off the bush or me away from my mate. So now I have to take the drastic actions of PB. I must remove the rose from water itself the last connection with its host. I goes in a book away from the light in a dark safe place. No damage will be done to it since its protected from the elements. The petals will stay attached and the color will remain. Eventually though the rose will dry and lose all life but will retain its form and integrity. The insides will be empty though. Thats where I am atm. Im heading to Plan B. Eventually though my love for her will dry out. Its a very gradual process though. Ill emerge ok either way though.


Here is how I derived that number. I went to the child support calculator for my state. I inputed a salary of about 80K. Thats my average without overtime. I inputed a salary of 0$ for her. There is a very good chance the judge will deem her income though since she lost her job for cause 2 weeks before I filed. It also inputted me paying her insurance. So im failing conservative in my child support calculations. I do NOT want to present myself to the judge as a deadbeat dad either way.

$600 is peanuts for her. Just a couple months ago she made 50K a year. Ive been paying her $400 bucks a month just to watch her own child. So she will only get an extra $200 a month AND have to cover her health and car insurance (oops gotta include that in the letter WEEE). Looks like that $600 a month isnt going to go very far. Especially when she has at least 11K in credit card debt now.

I know that her parents wont let her go hungry. They wont let DD5 suffer. Ive talked to her dad and I think he is going to let her feel some of this pain and repercussions.

Go ahead. I havent totally given up on her yet. Im just preparing a plan. Having a plan empowers me. Plan A only works 15% of the time. Going to Plan B happens. May be better in the long run anyways.


When she gets served divorce papers and has to go to a temporary hearing for a separation agreement that she may lose custody and have to pay ME will get her attention.


I honestly dont know what she is thinking. Ive been married to her for 7 years and still dont know her thoughts. I dont think she is thinking. I dont think she has any plan but survival. I think she has mantra, catch phrases and other slogans but thats it.

The competition of the OM DID put a fire under my [censored]. Funny thing is she didnt want a committed relationship with me until I started dating another woman. Maybe life without me will wake her up.

In all honesty I have plenty of PA left in me. I could go several months. Her increasing indifference and the risk of dropping the D complaint is my entry criteria.

I really dont think the OM has much to do with this. I havent been able to find any contact. I think she doubts her resolve to save the M. I left all the OM crap in the letter in case he is there still just way underground. If he is not it doesnt do any harm.


Im 33 years old. Im the person I am. Im not going to sell out my values and ideals to make myself attractive to a woman who has been carrying on an A for at least 2 years. I will meet her needs since I want to do that. Im not going to kick babies and rob banks to give her a high.

YEG,

I don't agree with your financial support. She wants to act single, then she can leave and support her own a$$. Be a man, grow a pair, and quit trying to soften the blow to someone that clearly needs the 2x4. 2x4s are all that WW's deserve. Some wake up when whacked with them, others down't.

You're also far too generous with your son.

It's really simple:

Get out, get a lawyer if you wish, but my son and I will continue to be a family. Until then, get out and don't come back until you get your head out of your a$$.

Getting your head out means cutting off all contact, full access to your passwords, accounts, and contacts, and total transperency on your part. I'm done playing games and walking on egg shells.

Contact X if you need to get a message to me regarding DD5, otherwise don't contact me until you agree to meet all of my requirements to come back.

There's no negotiating on this. You're destroying what little good will I have left for you. I'm taking this step to protect what little is left.

I'm not supporting you in any way and I'm protecting family assets from your behavior. If you wish to continue your adultery, then you can fund it yourself. I'm not putting a dime to supporting that.

My lawyer will be contacting you soon to arrange your child support payments.

YEG

In other word, YEG, quit trying to soften her landing. Let her smack into the bottom and let her know you have balls the size of Jupiter.

In all fairness to YEG, I think that is coming. He's just waiting for the legal aspect to run its course so he can get custody and any child support established (no spousal support), so he can go dark and not have to work on anything legally. I get the sense he's bot just about another month or two in him before he goes to plan B and cuts his WW off completely.

YEG:

The more I read your words the greater my conviction that WW is not a match. Within this context I believe you should stop Plan A and immediately go Plan B.

Realize that you can live without WW quite well and the reason you want to bond back with her is the OP effect on "hysterical or non-hysterical bonding". Your reaction to the affair is physiological and this is how humans react to competition.

What really bothers me is the fact that the roles are now 180 degrees apart:

At the onset you were the good guy and she used you as a sound board to put down OM (the soon to be husband at that time).

Later WW reconnects with former BF and he becomes OM. She tells OM about how awful you are and how she made a mistake by marrying you. These words were spoken more than once--------------do not doubt this.

What I get from the above is a woman that is self-centered and cannot process or understand the normal stages of a marriage where couples normally enter a period of calm and relaxation where there is no more relationship drama. It seems she thrives on the relationship drama. If she likes drama she will react positively to you as soon as you start divorce proceedings.

However, I believe you should not take her back even if she wants to come back once you initiate the divorce proceedings. In the end she will be herself and eventually repeat the cycle. As I said she is not a match.

I agree with the money! Even if the 600 a month is little, why give her anything? She is not your wife, the woman you married is far gone! Why support her in her A? My husband told me if I wanted to leave then I would get a job, he would not support me even if we were married for 7 years!

Sorry, the rest is good...not the 600 bucks a month part! I want u to take that out!

She wants to live single? Then by all means, let her live a single life

I dont think that conforms with alot of the MB principles on the site. Thats a love buster. I am in plan a till I go plan b. I dont threaten her with whats coming. I just do it. Boundaries are important but they can only be discussed if she wants to come back.

Here are the facts. I work 50 hours a week and hour away from the house. She is unemployed and has been watching the kid every day. My mother watched DD5 when WW use to work. She cant watch her every day anymore. So WW will need to watch her some days. So split 50/50 custody is appropriate.

When I input the values for those in the child support calculator using split custody (which will not likly be granted most likely one or the other as primary) I got taht figure. $600.

Im giving her what is fair. I'm not going to jeapordize my custody and relationship with FIL by being unfair. FIL is one of the biggest influences on her and will be huge in PB. I have to be fair to get that support.

As far as timetable to PB that depends on how far I can hold off serving the papers.Ill go PB prior to her getting served.

Its child support not spousal support.

As far as the money ill talk to my lawyer and see what she says is appropriate. She wont get anything till she leaves the house.

If the money is only to help your child, then dont give it to your WW you think she cares? NO! Give the money to your parents or her parents and say "Ok I am giving you this money to make sure that my child is safe with the mother."

And the whole she's my wife and she needs 50/50, yes after the D you can by all means give her any $$ the judge says, but when she is not loyal and going around sleeping with OM, that is not your responsibility to financially take care of her, that was HER choice!

I understand that you work long hours and she took care of the child during that time, but look what happened? She found another man to fulfill her needs, are you really saying that you will support her by giving her 600 bucks a month, so she can still have money and go out with her man? I don't think so!

Give the money to whom ever she is staying with... which I hope its her parents! If not, and if she is going to stay with the OM, then she shouldn't be having the child 50/50 of the time, you want your child to see the OM with your wife? But if she will be staying with her parents, then tell her that the money will go to them to support your child, NOT HER AFFAIR!!

My lawyer told me something when I started my mess: IF THERE IS NO CHILD SUPPORT ORDER, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT!

So now you're falling into one of the other traps I fell into.

The reality is that you will have your own life and she will have hers.

That means that you will have to arrange for child care on the days that your son is with you and she will have to figure out what to do for herself.

That is plain reality. So giving her money when she's out gives her too much credit. If you really believe those $600 will go to your son, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Those $600 will go to support her affair.

Again, I understand where you're coming from. But you're not getting it. She doesn't deserve Mr. Nice Guy. She deserves Mr. Get the He77 Out of My House.

So perhaps you don't word things as harshly as I did.

But stop this idiotic idea of giving her money to support her affair, because that is exactly what you will be doing.

You may as well offer to sit by the bed with her and the OM so you can go fetch them water after they're done. That's exactly what you're doing by offering her money.

Shake off the Mr. Nice Guy. Your WW doesn't like Mr. Nice Guy.

I know I sound harsh. But trust me when I tell you that Mr. Nice Guy and easing her fall don't lead to anything.

Get yourself a daycare for the days you work. Offer it to her for the days she will have to work.

Go for full custody of your son and make her pay for CS. Show her that she will lose EVERYTHING by going down the path of divorce.

Make divorce as ugly looking as possible.

Stop being nice!

YEG,

I think what they are trying to say is stop Plan Aing your Plan B letter. Plan A her when she is with you, but don't try to use Plan A in your letter.

Most likely they are right that the $600/month will go towards the A. Perhaps it would be better stated that you will pay a daycare center directly, or you will repay FIL up to $600 for expenses while DD5 is staying with them.

Do not give WW money. It will only be used so she can go bang the OM.

When you have the kid for one week the expenses are yours. Her week it's her problem to come up with the money.

Plan B letter is too long you need to get to the point. WW's affair and reufusing to stop it has caused you to go NC with WW.

You want to recover the marriage but can not do so with the OM in the picture. For the marriage to be recovered WW has to go NC with the OM, get STD testing, be transparent with cell and computer so that NC can be verified.

During this time of NC all contact must be done through a third party. No exceptions. Unless their is an emergency as a child has to be hospitalized.

Everyone I think the OM is out of the picture and about to be deployed overseas. And YEG has filed for divorce and is considering having her served in the next few weeks before his time runs out to do so. I think the $600 he mentioned is what he anticipates to be ordered to pay. YEG, you may very well be ordered to pay cs in some amount, but I would NOT mention this in your plan B letter.

Will you have to have a temp hearing to get her to stay away from the house? Are you asking for full custody? Do you plan to let your WW watch dd while you work?

I have snooped and searched and looked for contact and I haven't found any. The only evidence I have is her appearing to withdraw further and further.
That is correct. If I don't file then the complaint gets dropped and that can be interpreted as forgiveness of the A.
I wont get sole custody. I might get primary custodian but the wife will be allowed half the time with DD5. I dont want to cut DD5 off from her as that is bad for DD5. The complaint is VERY specific on NO BOYFRIENDS around DD5 while we are still married. That is very common in my state and judges take a very dim view on anyone that violates that. DD5 hasnt seen OM in about 9 months I believe so I have no reason to believe that WW will introduce OM to DD5 again especially when she knows im tracking her. She knows I have a PI retained.

Yes. I will move into my brothers/mothers house until then. It will only be a few weeks.

Im asking for primary physical custodian with her having DD5 50% of the time.

On her days yes. On my days my M will watch her.

======================================================

Here is my second shot at the PB letter.

Dear WW,

It pains me to have to write this. It is truly sad what has happened to us and our marriage. The direction that I must go now is not one of choice but of necessity. I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those. What I have been able to do is recognize the error of my ways and have learned from those so I can prevent them in the future. The past 2 months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. Before I lose any more of the thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take steps to protect them.

Until that point, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. To this end I ask you move out the house asap. I do not wish for either of our bonds with DD5 to suffer any further so I propose we split time with DD5 equally. I will take DD5 thursday, Friday and Saturday. You can take DD5 sunday, monday and tuesday. I will have DD5 one wendnesday you the next. I also will call DD5 every night that I dont have her to tell her good night and I invite you to do the same. I ask that we use MIL, FIL or M and F for these exchanges and to make that nightly call. FIL has agreed to act as an intermediary for us. Any message you would like to relay to me I ask go through him.

Child support will be provided as appropriate for the custody arrangements. I will also add you to my health insurance when you get me your paperwork but I ask you reimburse me. As for the cell phone you may either stay on our shared plan and reimburse me for half the bill or seek your own plan elsewhere.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know torturous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with <OM> . I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to construct a plan to ensure a total separation from OM and recommitting to the M. Until that time I will continue to pray for our family and us.

Your loving H
BH

That one is WAY better

"With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One, in which we both feel loved, safe, honored and cherished. I simply can not continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage until you completely break from OM and recommit to our M. It has become too painful."

i'd have left that bit in, just to make the cause-and-effect really clear to her.

No, no, no! Do. not. leave your house. Why would you do that? Do not leave your house! You will ruin your chances of being given residency.


======================================================


Your revised PB letter is much better, but don't mention financial support at all. Let her head spin off worrying aboaut it until the hearing.