Yes I had read the Love Bank section....Yes I just went back and read it. Does it make sense? Yes. But I also do not think it is as straight forward as that.

What do I want? Besides financial stability I don't know. After not having to worry at all about bills, I don't know what will really make me happy.

And Yes Mark I went and read your essay on the other thread.

I do understand that what I do affects my wife, and what she does affects me. I get that. As a result I try my best not to do anything that will effect her negatively, while trying to do enough of what she needs to make her happy. Its not easy, but I try to. She doesn't always think I try very hard, but I try.

At the risk of sounding trite:

Do, or do not. There is no try.

You're not in love with your wife. When you are it is easier (not easy, but easier) to avoid doing things that hurt her.

It is easy to meet ENs when in love. It's like breathing to POJA once you've learned how to.

You are not meeting her needs the way she wants them met, she's not meeting your needs, you're starting down a path to misery.



It IS that straight forward. People who have wonderful, loving marriages. People who have recovered their marriage from ADULTERY. People who have walked down the road you're looking at are telling you IT IS THAT STRAIGHT FORWARD.

It is that simple.

This program has build THOUSANDS of happy, healthy, romantic marriages. It has saved marriages from the brink of destruction.... how many marriages has your philosophy saved or improved or made healthy/happy? Not even your own....

The statement you made about how it shouldn't take work is very telling.

I know a couple, that I am very close to. They are older, both have been divorced with kids. They are in a very loving relationship, happiest they have ever been in their lives. They say it is easy, doesn't take work, shoudn't, it just is that way. They are so happy together, I am very happy for them.

Show them the basic concepts here, and I'll bet you that they naturally LIVE them.

CW- It is quite possible that you are right about that. But, that just means that it comes naturally to them with each other. Its just easy with one another.

It may just come natural to them but it is not because of who they are with......How long have they been together? just curious.

They got together about the same time my wife and I met. So going on 5+ years now.

If you talk to older couples who have been together a long time and are happy, they will tell you that it takes work....Not hard work, but you cannot just sit back and expect to be happy and that any bad stuff will go away....No relationship is happy all the time.

They have likely learned from the mistakes of their past (why their first marriages tanked) and have put in precautions in this one so they don't get a repeat failure.

And see, you don't have to go through all that. You can learn what they know NOW, and avoid the failure.

5 years is not long....

Tom - I feel I was out of line with my last statement regarding your philosophy. I don't want to be argumentative. I want to help you build your marriage.

Tom - for DH and I it has been easy. We never fell out of love. I thought we had something special. When I got here I realized we'd been doing almost everything RIGHT. We were living the MB principles without knowing it.

And you know once you're in the habit of living that way, it is easy. Learning it is work, learning it is hard. Living it - it's just the way you are.

Sure there are downs along with the ups.... but they're no where near as low as they could go.

Vibrissa, I do appreciate your comments.
I know I am not perfect, I know that the way I do things is not always the best way. I am trying to figure out what is the best way for me, to make things work.

The first few years a couple is together I think it comes more natural to meet each others needs....Its like the honeymoon stage. I wish that I had found this website BEFORE my WH had his A. Tom, you are at a turning point where you can be very happily married, you have the tools here, please use them.

I do believe they learned from what went wrong, or what were not positivies in those marriages. I am glad the marriages happened, and quite glad they ended as well. It was definelty for the better. But they were young when they both got married, those marriages did serve a purpose early on. Without them, those kids would not have been born. Thank God for that.
I do see how they interact now, learning from it is hard, since it just seems so easy for them.

Tom, one of the Basic Concepts is Instincts and Habits. A habit is something we do without thinking because we've practiced it many times. It is true that you can learn particular habits that will make massive deposits in your wife's Love Bank, and when you do those habits will be nearly effortless, and romantic love will be nearly effortless.

The founder of this website, Dr. Willard Harley, has a marriage like that with his wife. It is work to get there and to build the habits, but once they are in place, having a great marriage with romantic love for both doesn't take nearly as much work, because you are already in the habit of making massive Love Bank deposits every day.

That's okay, and I think it's pretty normal. (It took me quite a while to realize how important Affection was to me, and exactly what kind of affection I wanted.) If you can get your wife interested in this program, the two of you can figure it out together.


There's a reason for that. I encountered it in my own marriage, with my wife. And she encountered it with me.

Let me give you an example: a young man grows up in a happy home, with two parents in love. His father is always buying his mother jewelry, and she loves it. The young man concludes that, among other things, buying jewelry is one of the ways to please a lady. He gets married to a woman he adores who loves him right back. He buys her jewelry at every special occasion and holiday, and sometimes for no reason at all. He loves her and truly wants to make her happy.

But after a year or two, the young lady no longer feels for him like she used to. In fact she feels very frustrated. In my hypothetical example, this young lady doesn't enjoy gifts at all. What would make her feel in love with her husband is spending lots of time with him doing something they both enjoy together, like camping or hiking. He's been working long extra hours making money for jewelry, which she feels she should appreciate, but his long hours are taking him away from her when what she really wants is Recreational Companionship. If he'd cut the hours back down, skip the jewelry, and find some new hobbies with her, she'd be head over heels in love with him again. (And she'd be healthier and more productive in life, too, in addition to less susceptible to depression. There are lots of quality of life benefits to being in love in a happy marriage.)

The young man is practicing caring love for his wife, but his caring love is ineffective, because he is not an expert in meeting her emotional needs.

Of course, real life is even more complicated, with emotional needs that aren't so easy to figure out (including plenty of people who don't know what their own emotional needs are, yet), and love bank withdrawals (Love Busters). But my simple example is intended to illustrate that this young man could tighten up his performance as a husband in just this one area by reallocating his time and resources in a way that is more effective for his wife. He could bust his butt the rest of his life buying her gifts, but if she is not wired for it, it will not give her any feelings of love at all. She may realize he is working hard but still have a feeling like "He's not trying; he's not the man for me; I don't understand why he doesn't make me feel like I used to." And he may feel frustrated that she doesn't appreciate him and feel less and less motivated to try anything. Or they may start getting in the habit of getting angry at one another, and make things even worse.

Marriage Builders is all about learning to be an expert in meeting your wife's emotional needs and avoiding love busters. The tools and training you need are here. (The tools and training your wife needs, as well.)

Let me just make a quick clarification markos.

When I said besides FS I don't know what I want, what will make me happy. I mean in life in general, not just in my marriage. FS is the one thing in life I know I want. (though I do know I want to raise kids).
I don't know what else outside of that will make me happy in life.
As I have said before my wife is a great communicator, she is very clear on what her EN's are, though we are both aware that I am not very good at meeting those that often.

So...you want sex more often than once a month...but you don't want it with your wife.

Who exactly are you wanting sex with?

I see this as dangerous territory.


committed