I understand what you are feeling Stanley, but (and this is a big, big �but�) you cannot allow the OM access to your life in ANY fashion whatsoever. ZERO.

You must do whatever it takes to accomplish that. You find yourself in these pages after six years because that issue has never been properly addressed.

Many here are advocating exposure as a means of accomplishing this necessary objective. I think it would have the desired result. At a minimum you are best advised to let everyone know that you and your family want nothing to do with this SOB. You can tell your in-laws to keep him (OM) away from your family. You can tell them as much or as little as you want regarding your reasons. Remember, the reasons belong to you and not anyone else. This is your business and your family. I suspect that taking charge of this situation will be one of the most liberating actions you have done in a long, long time. I would embrace it with open arms.



This is your chance to act like a man. Your family needs you.

Mr. G

I must have a hole in my head. My main concern was that anyone would think this was an appropriate way to handle the problem. Or that all situations should be handled "differently." We can see how well that worked in this case!


....walking away from the crazy people and their enablers..

This is a very good reason to do what you are doing.
I agree.

That's why I say:

YOU GO GIRL !!!!!

In my previous post, I shared that disclosure YEARS after the fact, was for DD20's benefit.
Stan cannot (yet) see that disclosure in his circumstances WILL ALSO benefit his daughters.

Plus, he's always feared Myrna's emotionality.
That's what drives his bus.

Stan, seriously?! This guy took your daughter out? He came to the funeral? This whole thing boggles my mind. Why won't you grow a spine and stand up to him?

He's manhandled YOUR family. And YOUR entire family thinks he's a super great guy. and YOUR family will continue to allow him contact to your wife. And he has contact with your daughter if he wants to.

Are you embarrassed and that's why you don't want to expose? Are you afraid of him? Do you seriously think if you just ignore it, it'll just go away?

And do you realize you are part of your wife's suffering? the kids don't know about the adultery. So they say things and your wife 'suffers' while you sit there and watch. You know why they continue to say things that hurt your wife....BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS.

Geez! I'd be screaming this off the rooftops.

OM is a friend of my wife's family 2500 miles from here. Now that my mother in law died he has no further excuse to visit. He is not friendly with my family. Folks in my family move in a different circle.

My wife took my daughters with her to have lunch with OM during her affair. I told my daughters that this man is undesirable and they understand. However, I did not provide details, that is private.

When you see OM you immediately smell a rat because he is excessively charming. For most people this is obvious, but for some that have admiration as the NO.1 Emotional Need this charm works. The entire family of my wife is quite similar and they love men like this. They are easily manipulated. The only one that smells a rat is my father in law and obviously he is not blood related.

I don't care about OM. My wife can have him any time. I don't conduct my recovery by putting hurdles in front of her. So exposure means nothing to me. I promised my wife I would protect her and keep her affair a secret and that is what I have done.

I also avoid causing pain to my children. Exposure at this time does not serve any purpose. If i have a situation like Pepper I might consider exposure.

Who are you accusing of ruining marriages, me or Stanley?

Suffice to say, logic and deductive reasoning ALWAYS triumphs in the end. Harley�s methods work for lots of different reasons but the common thread is that his methods are logical and sensible. I am a huge advocate of his to everyone I know but that does not mean that I will do whatever he says. He does not hold that power over me, yet I have deep respect for what he has been able to accomplish.

The fact that Steve Harley�s council to save my marriage worked wonderfully without requiring disclosure is no coincidence or blind luck as you have hinted. It was Steve, my wife and I, one on one, a tailored solution that WORKED over several sessions. There is no need or percentage for you to demean it. There was no luck. Hard rewarding work? You bet!



Funny, but my best successes have ALWAYS come from my best thinking. It was when I stopped thinking that my troubles started and that just about covers every facet of life. Of course, my �best thinking� was never about what �feels best�. I would never subscribe to such a view nor have I, either here or anywhere else.



You (we) are providing others advice based on the information contained in Harley�s several books. Certainly you must realize that Dr. Harley�s advice to someone on a one to one basis might emphasize certain areas and deemphasize other areas. I believe that if Dr. Harley had counseled us (my wife and I) that he would never have mentioned disclosure. I don�t think Steve made a mistake at all.



AMEN

No you do NOT!
I can assure you, every single one of my adult family members knew about the adultery within a week of DDay.
H's parents knew. He has no siblings.

You cannot compare my exposure (everyone who mattered to keep us safe) to yours ( no one).

Sorry.
You have no basis for comparison.

Part of our M recovery was H's apology to our family.
Something missing from Myrna's vocabulary.

Do not compare.
It does not hold up.

This is my take:

I rather put up with the crap of OM stalking than making this revelation to my children. This is my personal choice. In addition I would destroy the self esteem of my wife with the revelation. It could even be interpreted as vindictive and cruel.

I don't need my wife to apologize to other people other than myself. In fact that apology was for her not for me.

Perhaps at some level I like to see the psycho behavior of OM to reaffirm to my wife how stupid her affair was.

You misrepresent me to the point of irresponsibility.



No one has kicked Stanley under the buss. Your sarcasms directed towards me are unwelcome and certainly expose an ugly side.

I would suggest that Stanley has received some great advice. I hope he follows it.

Mr. G

I see something else.
You use this secret to keep your wife under control.

Unfortunately, that did not translate to your marriage, did it? Or you and I would not have needed the services of Marriage Builders. Like I said, we did not get here by singing too loud in church. Our best thinking screwed up our marriages.


No, he doesn't give people "other" advice, MrG, and you cannot support such an assertion. In fact, he says there is a very STRICT PATH to recovery and this is how he counsels people. This is another example of you substituting your own opinion for Dr Harleys.


He even mentions getting "alternative opinions" [that conflict with his] in the mission statement at the top of the page.


Its pretty clear that he intends the forum to be used to discuss his concepts, not how to contradict them.


Anyway, this is his position and that is what we are here for. To learn and discuss HIS opinion, not substitute ours for his professional opinion.

That is especially irrational on a thread where we can all see the devastation Stanley and his family has endured by NOT following this advice.

The sign on the door is Marriage Builders, after all. It doesn't say The Bullcrap of MelodyLane or The Bullcrap of MrGoodstuff.

I guess I cannot be that dogmatic.

I don't see the point of blindly applying the methods when every case is different. For example, I see folks here doing Plan A when it is clearly a waste of time.

Plan A is seldom a waste of time BECAUSE it provides the betrayed spouse an opportunity to flex their "be the best I can be under adversity" muscles.

Plan A is also EXPOSURE.
Not a waste of time!!!!!!!!!!

What is irresponsible is to tell someone who clearly needs to expose and is SCARED to do so that:


Never, in all my years on MB, and in meeting Dr Harley, counseling with him and reading everything he has written have I seen him say "do what best fits the situation" and disclosure is not a "one size fits all." That is your own opinion, not Dr Harley's. Stanley has already done what he thinks "best fits the situation" and we can see how far that thinking has got him.

So yes, you did kick him under the bus by giving him advice that is in direct CONTRADICTION to Dr Harley's. You handed a drowning man an anchor, in other words.

THAT is ugly and irresponsible.

What about folks who blindly ignore methods when it is apparent they would help them? What do you think of them?

Stanley, you might have a case for obstinately ignoring tried and true MB concepts, but you lost all grounds when that clearly doesn't work for you. Having the OM stalk your family, stalk your own daughter is not exactly a rational defense for ignoring very basic MB concepts.

In other words, your strategy has not worked for you.

That part I like

Me too.

And we see the result of that thinking. Actually you are dogmatic. You are dogmatically affixed to a path that you know doesn't work. [non-exposure]

Dr. Willard Harley: "The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works."

That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't believe that "one size fits all..."

Like I said in my post, my troubles started when I stopped thinking. That was a direct reference to the affair days. Ahhhh, how foolish I was, how foolish we both were. Thinking saved my marriage Melody. As a matter of fact the day I stop thinking and rely on others to do it for me, then please, shoot me.

I never needed an ounce of faith with Marriage Builders, it all sounded so logical, so sensible. But that does not mean that I will follow it without thought.



Yes, you have quoted me correctly. That is what I believe. Thank you. Am I to be burned at the stake now?



No one is substituting anything. I stated my belief and stated as my own, NOT DR HARLEY�S. Are we not to question, not to inquire? My belief on this issue is based on the same common sense and logic that drew me here in the first place.



You state that like my advice was to �keep quiet�. Did you read what I wrote? Do you care? Do you even know what I advised Stanley? Again, no one threw the Doctor under the bus, you are confused, it was me that you threw under the bus.

Mr. G

Let me give you analogy, MrG. I smoked cigarettes for 20 years; 4 packs a day for the last 10 years before I quit. I quit and am in perfect health today. I exercise every week and seem to have fully recovered. But does that mean I would tell someone with respiratory disease that they too can get away with smoking like I did? Would it be rational for me to say "do what best fits the circumstances. That may come in direct conflict with a whole bunch of people who post here but I do not believe that smoking is �one size fits all�.

Would that be responsible advice? To contradict medical specialists based on my lucky break?

Because that is what you have done here with Stanley. You have implied that someone with respiratory disease can smoke and get away with it because you did. You already KNOW his marriage has NOT gotten away with it, so I can only scratch my head about why you have told this man he can. HE HASN'T.

You have handed a drowning man an anchor and I don't know why.

I have no doubt that your marriage is recovered. I believe you. I know others who have recovered without telling their families. But Stanley's has not.

So, it makes no sense to trot out your experience with corner cutting to Stanley when you know this has not worked FOR HIM. And I assure you if Stanley called Dr Harley on Monday and asked him how to handle this, he would tell him to expose the affair.