Hi to all,
I just discovered this site along with the forum... I am so glad!

My story, I hope to get some advice or thoughts. I am sorry, it is going to be long.. I don't know what to leave out. :P

Marriage of 9 years, I have always been the more emotional one (even not considering the fact of my being a woman). Two kids (5 and 3yo), being at home with them was really tough as I didn't get enough of my emotional needs fulfilled. Alas, I couldn't really pinpoint them at the time being, just sort of closed my eyes and hoped that the nagging feeling of dissatisfaction would go away. For things were tough for the husband, too, anyway, with two small kids in the household; I felt that he just could not take an additional burden of satisfying my need for romance and deep conversations.

A big mistake. About a year ago I started to exchange e-mails with someone I got to know some months earlier (business), at first it was fun and just wonderful to speak to someone new, who just happened to be so much more eager to "listen" and respond (something that my DH has not been very good at since beginning - I have mostly sort of filled in the gaps myself) and slowly, gradually, the conversation became more and more intimate. He fell in love (though did not say it for a long time, but it became somehow evident), I told him repeatedly that being a strong supporter of once-and-for-all marriage I would always hold my marriage and husband dear and he would never be but a good friend to talk to... Still, I could not refrain from writing him and waiting eagerly for his e-mails, since they filled me with so much energy, happiness and satisfaction. And of course, in January I had to admit to myself that I was in love.

Clearly a textbook case, too bad I saw the textbook only a couple of days ago when I read the MB columns...

Still, even without reading this site I had done some things right, at least I think so. Or were they right?

I told my H about a week later that I had developed feelings for the OM (I was visiting my parents, so I had decided to wait to tell it in person). Probably a communication error, but instead of my expectations (he would wake up, start to fight for me, try to convince that we could get over it), he just closed up. Really closed up. It was as if something inside him (secureness of our marriage?) had ripped and he was not able or even willing to sew it back. He just admitted that he could not fulfill my emotional needs. He has tried since, but later said that each time he paid a compliment, for instance, he has felt bad for a couple of days afterwards. (Yes, he is not very talkative, and even more reluctant to speak when it comes to appraisal, compliments and verbal showing of affection. Actually.. has not been since the beginning of our relationship.)

At first, I basically continued this emotional affair; as much as we tried to break it off (several times) or calm the contents down (another several times), it went only worse. No physical contact, though, except for two meetings with just hugs at welcome and good bye. I was still able to control my physical conduct. But emotionally... what an addiction!

Finally, we agreed to cut through the communication. It has been two weeks now (longer than ever since things went serious) and I am really trying to reach out to my husband. Have actually been trying for the past half a year, but I guess that with the undercover communication still on-going, it has not been as fruitful as it may have been.

Ok, but now comes the question/problem.

I am unhappy with the lack of emotional closeness. Sure, it is partly because of the withdrawal stage, but i anticipate it might take a long time for my H to want to be emotionally close again and this might eventually lead to another story like that.

I gave him the questionnaire of emotional needs, suggesting that we fill and exchange them (I am again visiting my parents to give him some rest during his vacation, will be seeing him at the end of this week, so cannot discuss the topic face to face before that). He didn't seem to be too eager about that. It seems to me that he would settle with the fact that he cannot fulfill my emotional needs (affection, conversation, occasional touches) rather than to try to meet them. He has made efforts in other fields of our household, though (things that I complained about), so I can see that he actually is willing to go on with our marriage. But it seems that he won't do it in the areas that, for now, matter most, because the neglect has been the strongest. He has become a better father, but I still feel we are miles apart when it comes to topics not concerning our everyday life.

How can I make my husband want to change? Is it possible at all? Because at least now it seems that in order for him to fulfill my needs, he has to change, and I cannot just suppress my needs - we know what came out of it last time.

I want this marriage, this relationship to work, but I cannot help but feel that on the emotional, "relationship"-level I am the only one struggling.

Any ideas or thoughts?

Again, sorry for the long post... just needed to sort it out verbally. Of course there is still much, much more to it than this post alone...

Thanks in advance,

FWW

I am a FWW, and there was no justification for the choice I made to have an A. Respectfully, I don't think you need to but the F in front of your name just yet.

You see, what I heard in your extended post were many justifications, disappointments, "explanations," and requests for help in making your H different. I didn't hear remorse, acceptance of full responsibility, and disgust at what you did. Until you look at what you chose to do fully and honestly and NOT through the lens of what your H did to "make" you do it....nothing is going to change. Your job right now is not to get your H to change. Your job is to take care of your own failings.

My advice would be to read all of Surviving an Affair as well as the info here. People don't cheat because their spouses didn't do a good enough job. People cheat because they are selfish and deceitful, and because they cross boundaries that should not be crossed. I would begin by writing a no contact letter to this OM, showing it to your H, and having H send it. Then give H access to all of your email, passwords, cell phone, everything. Then ask HIM what he needs you to do.

Understand that this is a marathon, not a sprint. Think in terms of months and years, not days and weeks, for recovery.

Idea?

Join reality and break out of the fog.

All I see here is "me me me"

How are you meeting his needs?

You can't just say "I cheated on you because you didn't fulfill my needs, so do it now, or else I will cheat on you again." Sorry hun that doesn't work that way.

Sounds like you need to plan A him, so stop complaining and be glad he didn't kick you out, work this program and you will fix the Marriage.

Have you wrote a NC letter with the OM?

What all have you told your husband about the affair?

Give him time, this is a traumatic blow, and it will take months to repair.

In the mean time...you need to plan A your DH, have you read anything about plan A?

Sparkler,

First welcome to the MB discussion forum. I have a lot to say to you and will try to do it in increments as it will be more than you can handle. I am sure you will here from many even while I am composing this reply.

First, there is a term used on this discussion site to describe a Wayward spouse, WS, and that is that they are in the fog. You are deep in the fog. You need to see this first, and then gradually you will start to see other things. Why do I say you are in the fog? Please read your post as others will read it. Notice that it is all about you. Notice it is all about how your H has failed you. Notice how your affair is your H's fault, and frankly not the result of YOUR decisions and failures to protect your boundaries. Until you see these things you will not understand how your H is responding.

You have told him it is HIS fault. You have told him he is a failure as a husband. You have told him you don't love him but love another man. You have shown him by your withdrawal, that he does not matter if he does not make you happy. People make themselves happy and then are happy to SHARE it with others.

You claim that he does not talk about emotional things, and yet you knew this when you married him. You want HIM to change. You said
Then you say I can assure you your H is struggling. His W has emotionally left him and is having an affair with another man. The mother of his children has told him that he is a failure and has blamed him for her choices. You then wonder why he clammed up?? My guess being a guy it is either clam up or go ballistic on you and he has chosen the former. I don't think you want to see what he is feeling inside.

I don't think you have a clue.

Finally, since you have read here, you should know that you don't make people do anything. I notice that you have no plans to change other than perhaps change husbands. You mention no changes you have made and even tell us proudly that you have curtailed or at least reduced your continued contact with OM. What changes in perspective have you made? What plans do YOU have to make your marriage better? You have done little but complain and it is clear you have spent little time seeing this from your H's point of view.

You need to start to make plans to change your role in this marriage. You need to face the fact that no matter what your H did or did not do, you violated your vows. You have violated your H's trust and belief in you. You have violated your boundaries. What are you going to do about that?

Your marriage can be saved but it won't be saved until you realize your affair is YOUR fault. Your H is going to have to decide if he wants to save the marriage, and right now it would seem he is not certain that he does. If he does, the tools here can help him. The tools here can help you as well, but you need to use them for their intended purpose, rebuilding your marriage, not bludgining your H with HIS failures.

I have so much more to say, but I need to hear your responses before we can proceed.

God Bless,

JL

Hi, Sparkler--
Welcome! usually we give newcomers a "sorry-you're-here-but-you're-in-the-right-place" spiel; this time, i'll say i'm unequivocally GLAD you're here! you'll be hearing from the veterans momentarily, but first things first--

does your husband know for a stone fact that you have willingly severed all contact with this other man, forever? have you given your H access to all email accounts, facebook pages, et cetera? you need to make it absolutely clear to him that you are totally committed to rebuilding your marriage, and that first step requires an absolute NO-CONTACT policy. your husband has got to know that you've not only ended this inappropriate relationship, but that you're willing to be totally transparent with him from this point forward.

we'll get to your needs later. two weeks after the affair probably isn't the ideal time to tell him, "here's where YOU should be doing better."

Just a thought--could it be that your husband has been trying to fulfill your needs all along, and that you haven't been honest and open with him? could be that he takes pride in his good providership and takes it for granted that you're glad to stay home.

but again, we'll get to your needs later. right now, you need to focus on YOUR HUSBAND. the question is not, "can he ever change?" but, are YOU willing to change? i'm hearing 9 years worth of martyrdom and neglect in the tone of your post, but i also get the impression that you never gave your husband a CHANCE to fulfill your needs. you describe a grim and unpleasant man who has been resolutely ignoring you for 9 years. probably because you hardened your heart against him long ago so that you could justify pursuing this affair.

also, did you sincerely believe that your admission that you were having an affair would bring him to his knees fighting for your marriage??? Sparkler, darling...we have a long way to go.

Thank you, lurioosi, for your answer.

I guess that you are right in many ways. This F means (for me) that a no-contact letter has been written and has so far worked. H has access to every mentioned communication channel, should he wish to use&check them. He hasn't, though.

Remorse and regret - actually there is, I am just not good at showing them.

Reading your text, I think I am still too into this withdrawal and justification phase to take full and sole responsibility for what I did. (I understand that lack of physical adultery is meaningless, since the thoughts count as well; still, to be honest I might say I'm even proud of myself that I didn't cross physical boundaries.) On the other hand, this is the way I always think - I most often do not take anybody's side but try to think of motives and reasons for the other party as well. It is therefore even harder to (dis)miss my own point of view.

I'm still curious about your saying that "People don't cheat because their spouses didn't do a good enough job." What about emotional needs, Love Bank and depletion thereof? I am not saying it is right, I am saying that it happens - when you are hungry you do things you would not do with a full stomach.

The first thing that must happen is that you must EARN his forgiveness. I don't see anything about that here. I would start by ceasing to blame HIM for your affair. That is nonsense. You had an affair because you have crappy boundaries around men. If you hadn't been engaging in an inappropriate email relationship with this worm, the affair would never have happened.

In order to recover, certain things have to happen:

1. complete and total honesty with your victim. Your husband needs all the facts about your adultery.

2. if the OM is married, his wife should be notified what you have done to her so she can protect herself from you and her husband

2a. the affair should also be exposed to your close family and friends. The more people who know, the more people to hold you accountable.

3. the environment that made the affair possible should be CHANGED. For example, if your affair began on the computer, then you shouldn't be on the computer alone. You have already demonstrated you cant be trusted on the computer.

4. a no contact letter should be sent to this scumbum. A letter that is approved by your H and mailed together. There is a good template in Surviving an Affair.

Anyway, these are the first steps. You need to first help your husband HEAL from your abuse and earn his forgiveness. THEN, the recovery of the marriage can be approached.

Here is where you start: Can we Just Forgive and Forget?

Thats right. A bankrobber might rob a bank because the bank denied his loan, but that does not mean the bank is to blame.

The reason you had the affair is because you have poor boundaries. You maintain opposite sex friendships, which is how most affairs start.

Is the OM married? If so, has his wife been told what you have done to her?

Sparkler,

You said I guess your H has a similar problem (he doesn't express his emotions well) but you don't cut him any slack on it do you?

You also said Sparkler, what you are not seeing is that if lying and cheating are things you consider boundaries, then YOU chose to violate them. No one made you do that. You had honorable outs, including divorce, perhaps forcing counseling, and actually changing how you interacted with your H. As much as you say he doesn't communicate well, I would say you failed at communicating with him as he never picked up what you claim you were trying to tell him. That is a sure sign of a "failure to communicate" on you part.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Meeting emotional needs etc. are a way to make a marriage far better, but the lack of this is NOT a justification for an affair.

If you were hungry, would you cannibalize your own child?

This is that serious. The sooner you "get" that there is no excuse, no justification, NOTHING that gives you a reason to cheat, the sooner you can begin healing your BH and maybe recovering your M.

How did you treat your BH during your EA? Did he go cheat?

Sparkler, have your parents been told about your adultery?

So... in the meantime, many answers have joined the first one. Thank you. I'll try to answer some topics.

About whether I am willing to change: YES and I have told him that repeatedly. I have asked him to fill the questionnaire hoping it will shed some light as to whether I understand his basic needs correctly. During this past five months (and I would like to believe that also earlier, but I must admit that before that we mostly had superficial conversation for a couple of years, so it just slipped away), I have several times been trying to identify them in order to make him happier, but with not much luck. Me being with the kids at my parents' for a week is one way of meeting his needs for peace and quiet (that seems to be his main need, at least as at now). I say this not to justify myself but to bring an example. Other examples - giving him space, being kind and friendly and warm most of the times (I am actually not the nagging, conflict-prone type), being flexible, giving up my sports and singing activities to spend more time at home (I really miss them, but I know that he is grumpy if he spends the entire evening with the kids and is not able to relax - so it is kind of my sacrifice, although I don't usually think of it that way, but I guess it subconsciously is)...

Plan A: H has not demanded anything of me. He first suggested divorce when I told I was in love with another. I myself have made the decision to quit communication.
The part of Policy of Joint Agreement - it is really hard to get him enthusiastic about anything So I mostly have to guess.
I also read that in Plan A, " the causes of the affair should be addressed" - but in the previous answers this seemed to be considered egoistic of me? (Sorry, I am not arguing, I am just new to these concepts...)

Actually, I have spent really much time to see the husband's point of view, analyzed the situation from many different angles etc. As I wrote, there is much more than fit into the first post. I realise very well that he has hard time showing his emotions or expressing his feelings even towards me. Actually I think that it was one of the reasons the correspondence flourished. I just thought that since I discovered this emotional need only now (and not ten years ago), it would not be fair to demand him to fulfill all my needs; from the beginning, he was aware of this pen-pal and how this gives me emotional fulfillment; he accepted the situation. I know this is where I made a huge mistake.

I have told him several times that I want to mend this marriage; I can but hope that he believes me.

Sparkler, this is not an emotional need, though. This is behavior that leads to the detachment in your marriage. Part of the reason your marriage is crumbling is because you spend time apart.

Emotional needs are intended to create romantic love. Spending time apart achieves just the opposite. In order to create romantic love, a couple must spend 15+ hours per week meeting these top 4 needs: affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation, rec companionship.

This time needs to be scheduled out every week and done in 2-4 hour increments of UNDIVIDED ATTENTION. That means no kids, no relatives, no TV, no distractions.

But first things first. And that is affair proofing your marriage by exposing it, ending the environment that led to the affair and earning his forgiveness.

Is that OM married and does his wife know?

Sparkler,
I think you have a great chance to piece together your marriage, but you have a lot to work on yourself before you go pointing fingers. There are two things here that you ask, one is how do I change my husband. The answer is you can't. You can't change anybody but yourself. You can gently persuade someone, but it is thier choice to change.

Secondly, you sound as if you want to place blame of your affair on your husband. That is impossible either. He neglected to meet your needs and vice versa. However, he did not set you in front of a computer and demand you cheat on him.

Get out of this mindset, this paradigm, its all wrong thinking. Shift your paradigm to a more functional model of reality. This is what really happened: You and your husband had marital problems. Instead of addressing those problems using counseling, or therapy you decided to loosen your boundaries and break your vows. Your husband, although not perfect, remained faithful. After feeling guilty (about being caught perhaps??) You decided to come clean, but place blame on your husband. He is devastated by his wife having an affair, her lying, and then is blamed for everything. He is handling it the only way he knows how (which I disagree with also, but that is his problem he has to work on, not yours), and that is by withdrawal.

In the meantime, what you can do is work on yourself. Your NC letter must be approved by the husband. You must create and practice strong boundaries by recognizing the choices you have, and making the choice that avoids an affair. You must build character by building your character, a trustworthy character. Then maybe, just maybe, your husband will not withdrawal. You can not fix this marriage without him, but you have to assure him through your actions and what you produce that you are a trustworthy person. There is no time limit on how long this will take. You can not put time limits or ultimatums on your husbands healing process. You can not tell him how to heal, but you can suggest a counselor, books to read, and things to do with you. Do not expect him to be all gung ho for it either. Have no expectations for your husband. What he needs right now is a caring loving wife to help him through his ordeal.

p.s. I would get the book Surviving an Affair AND Fall in Love,
Stay in love so you understand what we are talking about. They sell these books cheap on this website.

I have discussed the topic with several people, including my parents, some of my siblings, H's sister, some of our friends. I haven't yet posted it on my Facebook page or so :P But should anyone confront me and ask, I would admit to it.

Mrs Vanilla, do you mean if I neglected him physically? No, I didn't. (Does that make things even worse or vice versa?) I guess (of course, cannot know for sure) that at least most of the time, I was there for him also emotionally.


You are very right. I have realised that the communication failure was my part as well, maybe even more so.

And I am sorry to say that I agree with those who compare EA with cannibalism when hungry. That is the reason I quit the communication. The problem is that at that time, it seemed like stealing from a supermarket's garbage bin, to keep with the metaphore. (Was this justification again...?)

Thank you for your harsh responses, I guess that I have deserved them.

Sparkler,

The responses are not harsh. WE are all trying to get you to see things differently. As your perspective changes, you will notice a few things. One of the first things you will notice is that you will start to ask us questions about how to address things within yourself, perhaps your communications with your H, etc.

Our answers won't make much sense to you until your perspective fully swings from "fogged" to one seeking to make things better for your H and thereby better for you. You don't yet understand that you two are supposed to be one, and what hurts him will ultimately hurt you. As you see this and feel it, you also see that what is the bedrock of this site is HONESTY, radical honesty, not brutal honesty. Once you seek that, you will get our best efforts to help you save your marriage and make it better.

This does not happen overnight, and no one here expects you to change completely overnight. As you read, as you talk with us, you will find you gain better and better insight into the tools on this site and yourself. You need that most of all if you are to be successful in building a marriage you want. The tools are here, but it takes some time to understand the instruction manual.

God Bless,

JL

Exactly WHAT were these people told? WEre they told the whole truth?

Was your husband told the whole truth and told the truth about your last contact?

Is the OM married and has his wife been warned about you?

This is one of the problems I have faced - each time I ask what would you like me to do, what do you need, he says he needs enough sleep and quiet time (a two bedroom apartment is never quiet enough with kids around). So I have just had to start with fulfilling this need first.

I am VERY much aware we need more time together, just the two of us; miss being with him right now... Was aware even before reading this site. Have been trying to organize such opportunities, honest. (Not just this past six months, also earlier.) It is just a bit disappointing to see that I am enjoying them far more than he is and he would rather be at home resting. (Sorry, justification again.) But I guess I have to continue organizing such events even if he does not express his content.

And the OM is married; his wife does not know, as far as I know - at least did not know two weeks ago. I have suggested he tell her about me since the beginning of our communication. This is his choice.

One thing: I have always been sure that my boundaries concerning the opposite sex have been strong, and this far they have been. Just this once they failed... Or, rather, I failed.