No, I absolutely cannot agree that caramel is better than chocolate. NOTHING is better than chocolate.

It is a DJ when you attack the most beautiful, perfect, blissful food God ever created.

That would be garlic.

Don't get me wrong, I love garlic. But I just can't picture myself curling up on the couch in the evening with a big cold glass of milk and a lovely piece of ... Garlic? I'm not feeling it.

That's because your taker is talking. Maybe if you were willing to POJA this, we wouldn't be at an impasse. So the only answer is to do nothing. Ha! Now you can't eat chocolate.

Is it a DJ to say STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE??!!

Watch me!

I am sorry but some things are OFF THE POJA TABLE, KT! Chocolate is one of them. In addition to ebay shopping and pedicures.

hahaha! I loves ya gals! This last part of this thread has me cracking up. Speaking of pedicures, my wife has been trying to convince me to go get one.

Somehow I think that's too much. I mean, body hair removal, prob. too much time in front of the mirror grooming, and watching Lifetime is one thing.

But getting a pedicure is going over the line.

I think I'll carry this out till Sunday. Then I can get her to take the pics with me holding the newspaper to show the date. I'm supposed to go over to Jon's house to play berrpong Sat night. You can't play beerpong and be in ketosis at the same time.

If you just wear a cammo outfit you won't get beat up. You will love it!

I think I remember you saying that your husband goes with you too. And he seems like a manly man. I'll give it a shot.

Speaking of camo, I have this neighbor that's always trying to get me to go hunting. I've never been hunting, have no want to go hunting.Heck. I don�t even like fishing. My ideas of having fun outdoors are sports, skiing, bungee jumping, or something with a thrill aspect to it. Anyway, he�s always wearing camo and it makes me laugh because I think he looks so redneck and we live in the city. So he�s trying to get me to go fishing and hunting a couple of weeks ago that fell on a throwing competition so I had a great excuse. But I asked him why in the world would I want to go hunting or fishing.

�So you can learn how.�
�But why would I want to learn how?�
�So you�ll know how to live off the land.�
�Isn�t that what Walmart is for?�
�What if we had nuclear fallout and you had to get your own food.�
�Well, I have you then.�
Then we laughed and high fived. Okay, there was no high fiving. But it was good for a laugh. Then he talked me into fishing and I had a miserable 6 hours catching nothing.

I never knew you could be a guy in Oklahoma and NOT hunt! Is that even legal?

Does hunting for a woman count? That's how I found my wife. Shot her with a good dose of love at first sight. Then I reeled her in and now have her displayed like the trophy wife she is.

Ummm...okay, yeah. I'm gonna go play a couple indoor soccer games now. Y'all be good now.

Is it a DJ to say that people who come to this forum are loveably odd?

speaking of ODD, it just occurred to me that KT could wear his KILT to get his toes done!

Y'all know y'all love me. So what a fantastic night.

The Beautiful One made a guest appearance to my soccer games. I wasn't aware that she was going to come as she almost always works on Fridays for 13-14 hours taking care of pregnant women and deliveries. Usually the par for the course is I have the two youngest already in bed so that when she gets home she can eat, relax without the kiddos jumping all over her, and then she pretty quickly passes out after that. She's always been a 12 hour sleeper kinda' girl.

Anyway, before I left, she mentioned I should take a change of clothes in case the guys on the soccer team wanted to stay to Watch another game and have a few beers or go to the pool hall to shoot some rounds and have a couple rounds. None of this strikes me as odd except for the taking a change of clothes. I normally do anyway as playing two 55 minute indoor games leaves ones clothing extremely gross to say the least. Anyway, I thanked her for the suggestion and kissed her on the way out the door. There was some nice little game talk back and forth about scoring.

So I�m walking to field 3 after the first game which was played on field 1. I hear this whistling behind me and some comments/questions bout �hey baby, you got a girl? You lookin to go home with someone tonight.� I turn around and lo� and behold it�s The Beautiful One. And damn if she doesn�t look good struttin in her black and pink low cut, form fitting dress. She knows I absolutely love this color combination when it comes to dresses and lingerie. I asked her if she was ready to go and she smiled and said �no. I came to watch you play. Now go impress me.� Long story short, my team one, I scored a few, got a few fouls for being a bit rough in denying the other team from scoring. She kinda likes the alpha male side sometimes, so I think it was more of a display for her as I played a bit more aggressively then I prob normally would have�at least in not trying to foul.

So after the games I wasn�t quite sure what to expect since she was dressed up. I didn�t know if she just dressed up to dress up for me or what the further intentions were. So she brings me a beer and tells me to get changed and we�re going out dancing and listening to live music.

Nowwww�I love dancing. She does too after she�s had a few drinks in her and her inhibitions are a bit down. So she takes me to this hole in the way that I absolutely love. It�s a blues bar with a large dance floor, cheap drinks, and really awesome live blues music. For her to suggest and instigate going out dancing is rare and very awesome. I asked her at some point what the occasion was and had I forgot something important. She told me nope that she had been working a lot lately and we hadn�t gone out on a date in a bit and hadn�t spent any �marriage builders undivided something attention time together.� I had to laugh at this because she likes marriage builders but sometimes can�t remember the terms. I gave her a huge thanks and she laughed and told me, �just kidding. I really just wanted to have some arm candy to parade around and make the other girls jealous.�

I will say that while we may not be poster children for marriage builders, it certainly has helped quite a bit in my marriage to make it a better marriage. I really like the principles and she does too and she loves it that I�m always interested in making our marriage a better marriage. I think it makes her feel safe and secure.

What a great night. Two observations-
I never noticed how large her backseat is. And I have yet to convince her that she snores on occasion even though she�s passed out on the couch next to me lowly snoring.

You TRAMP!! da Mel knows what you did!


It is a lovebuster to lie about your wife snoring as I tell my DH all the time. SO STOP ALREADY!

Glad you had such a wonderful time. Good for your wife!

Is that the same crack pipe that is on the VW VR6 engine?

Sorry but at the same time i was reading this, my freind was on the phone discussing replacing one. I couldn't resist. And yes ,that is what they call it, look it up on the internet, it even looks like one.

As far as all the nutrition stuff. We will probably have to agree to disagree on some points, but there are some points that KT brought up that a want to clarify as well as some problems with ketosis. So here goes with my info and various comments and opinions.

Ok, what i was saying about burning fat in the flame of carbs. Carbs burn clean, fat burns with ketones,or cause ketosis along with other stuff that is stored in fat,taken in with animal fat or we store becuse its in our bodies,(its been discovered years ago that THC from Pot is stored in the fat cells of women and can be passed down to her children, among other things) .

As Mel says, there is some changes that occur with potasium and other stuff that can lead to insulin and sugar spikes. All mixed together it can lead to keto-acid-dosis as the PH level deteriorates. The benifet performance wise of ketosis in the brain is somewhat akin to the benifet of having low blood sugar. When you have low Blood Sugar you get cranky, moody, and even your lips get numb. In that state you will take food away from someone and tell them to take a hike, or in the case of the caveman, kill and eat anything. All in the natural made of survival.

In the Ketosis state it probably is naturally the state of the human brain when it doesn't have a lot of, or to much food to eat. A natural sharpness that keeps us aware, opposed to the groggy effect of eating to much and really, making ourselfs sick from glutony. My problem with what you are saying is that you are saying, (i think), that you want to put yourself in ketosis rather than count your calories ,( now the doctors are counting carbs instead when they should be counting both IMO). My choice is to allways burn clean fuel,take in what is needed for energy output and what you body should have to maintain a desired weight. Let your body balance out the fat content and don't toxify your blood.

This is unnesesary if you eat the right amount of nutritios protien rich vegetables. (carbs, calories, figure out your need based on your vitimen requirements or natural bodies deficiencys, everyones different) and maintain the ,(ill use calories) caloric intake versus the caloric need for energy and physical activity.

Hats off to the diabetic doctor you mentioned who discovered that the US RDA was bogus. Most of my original study and info was from Robert Haas,(not the poet), who after eating the recommended RDA while sports training in colledge discovered he had High blood pressure. He also being a chemist, studied blood chemistry and cured his hypertension with diet and didn't have to take medication. This was in the 70s and his book was "Eat to Win" aimed at heavy sports competion and was a best seller in 83. He went on to bring Martina Naritilova and others to there peak performance when they followed his diet advice and helped others to acheive world records.

Being a diabetic, I can tell you that its a balancing act with insulin. On the days that i would be breaking concrete more calories were nesesary to be takin in than the days i was putting together wiring in a bench job, and yes a little more insulin was requiered. Not as much as was needed when I ate poorly, and by poorly I mean fatty foods. Then the calorie difference along with the toxifiing effect of the "unclean" food source required much more insulin intake than what it equalled in calories. Everything we use for energy comes from blood glucose and it must have insulin to metabolize. The fats we eat that taste so good must be broken down to glusose,(blood sugar), and then turned into our own fat which is stored in our bodies by using insulin also. Along with our own fat is stored the impurities that came from the animal fat. When we burn it, it enters our blood stream. Hence the process of blood chemistry becoming more toxic than ideally it would be in we kept a clean source of fuel for our bodies. The fat we burn is our own fat, not the fat from the animals which our bodies must process first.

So if I ate well and stayed away from large portions of fatty meats it would take less insulin,(balanced agaist the caloric intake of the meat), to keep my sugar levels balanced. Also I would have no energy drops and would generally feel better.

Hence we rob our bodies of energy when we eat alot of animal fat because our intestines are using our blood to process this stuff instead of supplying energy to our muscles and brain, nerve systems, and we feel groggy and doped up.(if we eat well for a month and then have a whopper) we realy will notice this.

Looking at it simply from a natural point of view look at our teeth. We have teeth that resemble more of a horse or a grazing animal than a carniverous one like a dog or cat. exept the two canines. Thats about how the balance of meat to other food sources works out. That of course is my own observation as I look at it as the way we are built. It just seems simple yah?

As far as the question about what is good calories compared to bad? Lets just use white rice compared to Brown. You could use the quote used a lot "thats just empty calories" What my point was in that was this---

Calorie is unit of measure of heat. Its really a misnomer that they use it describe food quality as it relates to energy. It relates to potential energy, but only if the rest of what is required in the burning of the energy is present in the body can it be used properly.

Carbohydrates speak about there chemical construction. There are simple carbs like sugar, and complex ones like beans. They all turn to glucose which in turn into energy, but the rate is the issue for people trying to balance blood sugar and energy. Taking in a complex carb which takes time to break down to sugar and which has vitimens and minerals needed to maintain blood chemistry of course is the wisest choice. because its the way the body works.




Its like a battery, the finest computer is in our brains and its chemistry and electricity. Complex, not simple empty carbohydrates supply us with steady energy. If its clean then we will burn off the fat and replace it with lean muscle which has its own energy stores. If it dirty or empty and to much we will store it as fat and waste energy doing it. Your body knows that fats need to be dealt with first before they damage it. It will take your energy away to do it. It finds it more important than whatever you have planned

It relates to metabolism in that way. Let me explain it this way.

If you took in 2000 calories a day by eating cinibons from the mall,(yum by the way), and that is all you ate every day, you would feel like crap. Your sugar would spike and drop and eventually you wouldn't have any energy. Consequently trying to exercise off one on a bike is drawing from a bankrupt account of empty carbs with none of the other ingredients that make our body function, or boost our metabolism. If you eat good food most ofthe time but half of your calorie intake is junk carbs, even if you count calories, you will have poor energy,(well comparitivly), and most of the vitimins will be used up from the good food maintaining metabolism,(the bodys ability to burn or create heat in the chemistry whithin. for lack of a more complete description) and energy will not be optimum. You must admit its harder and more tiring to burn off realy poor food choices.

Before I forget, Every hormone is created form colestrol. I don't have the book in front of me but i will get it back and comeback and give more detail when I get it. Bassically one hormone is created, then others are created in a branch network. just to add to this surprising fact some else had brought up.hen I get the book back I will publish the tree and confirm if its LDL which is what I suspect.

I am goona break here and go back to see if there are any more things. I will read that book form the diabetic doctor and the sources KT mentioned. While I have an almond joy, hold the chilis

But ketosis is a normal physiologic state. I would argue it is the normal state of man. It's not normal to have McDonald's and a delicatessen around every corner. It's normal to starve.''

I saw this and I can't argue with these doctors said. If ketosis is a natural state then let it reign. But I hope they change it definition to a nessesary requirement soon because right now its mostly considered negativly.


What I really agree with is "Its normal to starve"