Hey you guys, i guess its my fault because of the way i write, but the thing i said about having high levels testostrezone was a joke,ya know a guy joke, like i have a lot of manliness joke. It was based on the story about the doctors wife, which is real.

I decided it would be funny if I said I had to much man-hormone..

I heard back in 1990 about the immune system probably being the culprit in my onset of diabetes. I have accepted that fact a long time ago but thanks for bringing up my joke and correcting me on it. That is funny in itself to me.

It makes me think though, did you even believe I was telling the truth about the diet I was on? In that whole large post there was just once where I gave "my" opinion and that was all that was commented on because the Atkins zealots, (don't be offended, I am a Haas zealot) saw me critisizing the sacred cow,(pun intended).

I did state in that post that I was sorry about my ignorant statements toward atkins.

That I would take a look at his stuff out of the respect I hold to you atkins fans as individuals and the information that you have shared on this thread.

What surprises me is that the main thing I recieved was critsism and referances that I knew nothing so all my info was treated like it was a fabrication.

At least I should have heard, "Thats interesting CP, I see that you are going to look into atkins and what you said and experienced must have some interestig info also, maybe Ill look into it." instead I got


and coming from you Mel, that is surprising. I would think that you read a lot and information of any type from a reliable source, (thats me), would be something you would look into.

Maybe you don't realize what comes with the fat that you burn and how the body processes it.

First of all, when your body takes in fat it has to digest it. In digestion it takes energy away from your other parts of your body because it is hard to digest than complex carbs. What i look for is clean energy without a lot of intestinal activity stealling away the blood flow from the muscles so I can get the most out of them fast. Its more efficient The key difference here is that by timing your carb intake to the times you will need it and acually counting the calories your useing.

Also I dont know if you realize that insulin is used in all energy tranfer from glucose. When the body gets a chunk of fat from lets say pork,(yeah I know atkins uses different fats than just animal, but bear with me for a minute), it takes the pork fat, pulls out the crap that come with it, (you know animal fat carries allkinds of toxic stuff with it right?), and then turns it into sugar that goes into the bloodstream, which must react with insulin to be stored in our body as our own specific fat uniquly tailored to us.

The statement that says;
quote

It is CARBOHYDRATES that lead to blood sugar sugar spikes, not protein and fat. When one eats carbohydrates, their blood sugar spikes, the pancreas releases insulin for the purpose of lowering the blood sugar, hence the blood sugar CRASH. Atkins avoids this by prescribing only HEALTHY carbs like low GI green veggies and berries.

end quote

is both right and wrong. whats right is that to many carbs makes the blood sugar spike, (so you are to control the intake). Whats wrong is that insulin is used constantly by the blood to turn sugar into energy, and in the case of the extra sugar produced when Fat breaks down, they are the same at that level. The carbs are used more efficiently because of thier energy, (glucose) nature and because they have less to filter out that fats. That goes for all fats as far as digestion, fats that are good for us like omega three have more benifets than downsides. But milkfat and butter no so much.

The Haas diet keeps the bloodstream cleaner at the risk that people wont monitor thier diet and calories. It provides fast and efficiet energy to the muscles without the drag of intestinal over activity. Its made for peak physical performance, not to lose weight primarily.


You have some idea that carbs cannot be used without sugar spikes and this is wrong. It just takes more work. Carbs break down to sugar in our bloodstream and the suger is the same as what you get from fat once its digested. Its the unessesary other things that come with fat and the long process time that I am agaist for those reasons of efficientcy.

I prefer high test fuel as opposed to the longer burning stuff. Its cleaner, does just what I want it to, and doesn't rob bloodflow and/or energy from my muscle. It takes more discipline but it works.

I am of the opinion that when my body is burning calories in the digestive system it can't do other vital work. The work thats reqired to burn fats wastes energy that can beused more eficiently other places. In this diet again I state this is for peak performance, not just weight control. I managed to balance blood sugar also. so the talk about carbs causing spikes is crap. You have to control the amount and when you eat them. Its that simple.

I want to look into what atkins says about fats and protiens because if you are having sucess thier might be something to it.

Mel. you are not right in all your statements but you have stated some that I will look into. Im soory that to you my posts have been wasted, I have intended to richen everybodies knowledge not destroy what thay already know. I respect that you have had success with atkins but i worry you are not getting the right nutrition in the best way for your body. When I experienced the Haas diet it became permenatly instilled in me. Its simple really. It just takes discipline and time to get used to the activity that must be done to follow it

This is at the heart of my posts, you are a very special lady to this forum. God knows what we would do if you wern't here to guide us with your specific knowledge and clear headed explainations of how the MB progam and what Dr Harley says about just about everything that comes up. And Im not just blowing smoke.

what i have said here has merit and you should look into it, you will be surprised. What the Atkins diet does is control wiegt and glucose at the expense of peak performance. but that is how i feel and untill I study all he does i cannot totally DJ him.

I hope for your sake you will look into what I talked about

Fred, what you said about your diet make perfect sense to me. You have discipline my friend. I would expect that in an athelete.

Luri I was n't picking on you , you just had the last quote up about my man-hormone joke, so i picked it. lol

You talked about spaggetti and it made me laugh. You said "yuck" because of the carbs, and in the Haas diet he suggests that spaggeti is fine if you use a non-fat marinara sauce and control the portion. He says its the meat and oils that are the problem.

Spagetti is probably the best example of what is different in these two diets.

To Atkins its the carbs that spike the blood sugar and cause dietary instability.

To Haas the carbs without any fat is clean muscle fuel.

I think its important that Haas diet is for performance and weight control is achieved by calories.

Atkins is wieght control primarily but has other benifets that stabilize other things, ( I have to read about it so i don't say the wrong thing, lol)

They both deserve study and now to do my homework.

CP, this is completely inaccurate. Fat is not converted to glucose in the body. It is metabolized as FAT. Only carbs and excess [very!] protein are converted to glucose and cause an insulin release. Fat does not have the same effect. That is very basic physiology.


You make inaccurate statements above that reflect a lack of understanding about very basic physiology. You don't know the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis, you don't know that diabetes is a disease of carb intolerance and you don't know how the various macronutrients are converted and how they effect the blood sugar. Do you even know that spaghetti is junk food and the meat and the oil is the only nutritious portion?

More about the glycemic index and its effect on blood sugar:



If this subject interests you and you want to get a basic understanding, I would refer you to 3 books that would help put all these terms into a working picture:

Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes
Diabetes Solution by Dr Richard Bernstein

And if you are going to proffer opinions on the Atkins diet, please read up on it FIRST:

Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution by Dr Robert Atkins

CP, it is not "to Atkins" it is either true or false based on reality.

So I ask you, what happens to the blood sugar when you eat pasta? What happens in REALITY?

CP, it is the glycemic index that predicts the blood sugar response which triggers insulin release.

Glycemic Response to Beef
Beef has no significant carb-content, therefore no effect on blood sugar levels. here

Lasagne, egg, verdi, dry pasta, boiled in unsalted water for 10 min GI index of 52

here

This thread has turned interesting pretty quickly. CP, I'm not really sure to start with all those statements. Melody has already covered about the breakdown of lipids (fats). I looked at Haas and here's what Hass says not to eat flour and grains. I'm not sure how you're going to eat noodles if you're avoiding grains, wheat, and flour. There's a whole slew of carbs Haas says to avoid. But according to Haas, you are supposed to eat this: �Foods to eat

�Fresh and frozen vegetables and legumes

�Fresh, raw, or dried fruits

�Fresh or frozen meats, poultry, fish, eggs

�Natural cheeses, homemade yogurt, dry curd cottage cheese

Looks like a lot of good protein and fat to me. I�m going to give you some links that will break down some basic nutritional physiology for you. Read these, come back to thank me, and then we�ll discuss some more.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/calories-nutrients-or-food.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-metabolism-overview.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/carbohydrate-and-fat-controversies-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/carbohydrate-and-fat-controversies-part-2.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-nutrition-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-nutrition-part-2.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html
This will be a start.

Spaghetti gives us high GI carbs and no valuable nutrition. The "non-fat" part of the marinara sauce emphasises a non-fat diet, when the body needs good fats to thrive. There is also no dietary fibre in this meal.

Spaghetti with non-fat marinara sauce emphasises the exact opposite of what is good for the body. This is not good nutrition!

If instead of the spaghetti there were low-GI vegetables, and if the fats in the sauce came from olive oil and omega 3 the tuna, the fish protein, cooked tomatoes and herbs would make this a meal of high nutritional value.

I find the word fat and marinara together really weird. Marinara is typically not fatty. But I looked up Haas that keeps getting referred to. He's anti flour, wheat, and grans. How do you have spaghetti hoodles if you are not eating wheat, grains, and flour?

"An athlete." I kind of like the sound of that.

I don't consider myself an athlete. I just consider myself an active person, who wants to stay that way.

Thank you.

I found that odd too, kt, based on what ConstantProcess reported about Haas.

Wouldn't a marinara sauce use olive oil at all? And does it contain tuna, which is oily? If not, I stand corrected. We don't tend to cook that precise recipe over here. It's more a case of making a standard tomato sauce with olive oil, onions, garlic and tomatoes, then adding fish or meat as desired.

Just to give Mel a heart attack:

DH's Italian Family's Ragu Bolognese:

1 pound beef
1 pound sausgage
bacon or pancetta
1/4 cup sugar
carrots
celery
green peppers
tomato sauce
garlic
onion
olive oil
cilantro,basil, oregano, salt, pepper

I can't put exact amounts, because they do it by pinch and taste. And NONE of the met is cooked and drained. It's just all put in there. It's cooked for hours, and they use fettuccine because the sauce is so thick and meaty. Add real Parmesan cheese, and mmmmmmmmmm........

but we don't do it very often because it takes pretty much all day to do it right.

And remember....DH's family is Italian, so don't be hatin' on their food or they'll feed ya to the fishes

yum, that sounds awesome! [except the sugar, of course ]

mafia peeples

Given the portion sizes given (there's over two pounds of meat), I think 1/4 cup sugar is basically "a pinch."

yeah...you have to make enough sauce for mom, dad, daughter, son, in-laws, grandparents, Uncle Vito and his bodyguards.....

But just for Mel I'll use Splenda...now there's an offer you can't refuse.

No no...splenda is double chlorinated. You mean stevia. Or Xylitol as long as you don't use too much and end up with digestive distress.

I don't know what that means, but I think my favorite sweetener has just gotten a "thumbs-down."