Hi igrip,

It seems that for quite some time now I have been following your thread off and on, and commenting and feeling for you, and hoping you would be a survivor.

I know you are afraid now and I know how you feel. God, a year ago in about a week I came home to a fire here on our condo and I was petrified to what would happen to my wife and I for her starting it. Well that was the start of where we are now, so I know all about fear and unknown and uncertainty.

Okay, that being said, have you been in consult with your bulldog lately? To preface igrip, I am not an attorney or nowhere close to being one - I know some common basic legal principles and precedents that apply to most people, but that is the extent. I just feel that I would proceed more proactively, whether there is a chance of your M being saved or not.

Okay, you stated something back on the 11th that sort of stuck with me and bothers me in terms of your welfare. You asked for advice here regarding the "restrictive clause". Igrip, that should have been a question for your attorney, and apparently you have not consulted with him/her in awhile. While I appreciate P. meggy and a few others in trying to advise you, wow igrip you should get that anwered for yourself on Your initiative with your atty. Again, am not an attorney. I did serve as a crisis intervention counselor at a senior level and I do know it is so hard to advise someone tailor made w/o having the privilege of knowing their specific information.

I have a comment on your suspected 'protections'. Late last summer I read an article on divorce here in IL based on current economy at that time. I read it and some others because I was not sure if i was headed for divorce after C was taken away and we were apart for a month or so. I read it for my own knowledge and protection at the time and also read several other articles. As I reacall the gist of the article was that real and personal property do not have to be disposed of (i.e., converted into cash or like compensation) at the time a divorce becomes final because of the down economy and the courts realizing the timing issues. All that is needed is a FMV of the outstanding assets to yeild a number to be plugged into the total net worth to proceed. At the time I was interested in this it had to do with a portfolio of my 401(k) and the need to not sell in a down economy.

Igrip, in terms of your other 'obstacles', I have no facts or expertise on this, but whether or not your wife is employed or not I do not think will affect the judge, except only to determine CS and possible SS. Divorces have occured no matter employment status. In terms of your WW or you being able to refinance to buy out the other and continue living in the home I don't think will affect a judge either. I simply do know just based on my experience from friends whol have told me about their divorce over last several years, that the intent of most courts is to keep the children of a marriage in a lifestyle and home that they are accustomed to. If it is in a yet to be sold home, so be it.

Okay last issue. That of contention regarding property division. Yea that is maybe a factor in prolonging the procedings. But, and I say this just logically, you may force her hand in enforcing the 'restrictive provision' in the petition and get you out.

I have been able to get long past any legal concerns regarding any separation or in fact D from my wife. We..I...have other issues but that is not now one of them. At the time a year ago I felt it may be. But I would not leave myself as unprotected as you are, and I say this in a concerned manner despite the hammer hit! I would be interested in P meggy or M. W. or anyone else here with a legal background and expertise advising that I am misleading you, but for God sake igrip get out of your easy chair.

I have been here long enough to see that people, esp BH's, come here, they participate, they don't listen and do their own thing, and then they twirl out of control, lost, and like an astronaut losing his umbilicle cord, twirl away out of sight.

This is the longest post I have sent to anyone on here. I do not know why, but I think it is because I see potential in you as a decent person interested in saving his marriage and in fact his life, but I have my doubts now.

You do not have to accept or belive me, and in fact there are probably many here, due to my harsh comments to others, who do not want me commenting here. But, I still will.

Just a brief about one of my experiences. When I was in college back in the 60's there was a great emphasis on the Great Society and going out of your way to help others in need. I was so naive back then (being a student in the Social Work dept.) that I listened to a radio program about some woman having difficulty with finding support and aid almost to point of giving up. Typical sad story but way back then succored into it. These were common 'human interest' stories in the media back then. Well I tried to help. I called in to the station that broadcast this and they wanted me to follow up. So spent some of my time and gas driving this woman to stores for groceries and to her drs. and such. To find out a couple of weeks later when I was to take her to a store again she was not there and a neighbor told me she was arrested that afternoon. I actually went to the Madison police dept. to try to find out what happened and an officer sat me down gave me a $10 bill and explained to me what did happen. She was arrested for welfare fraud and check fraud. I never saw her but apparently she was 'kind' enough to leave that 10 dollars from the cash she had to repay me for time and the gas. well this was the 60's and a lot of idealistic people then. That taught me alot. I was upset and really anti welfare after that until I recovered. The point is igrip, I did not use my common sense even at that time.

Well this is too long now, but please protect yourself...for you and your Dau.

You have a special prayer coming for you and your dau. tonight and is all I can do.

Tom

Ok everyone. I'm sorry for not listening sooner, but it is not too late. Everyone is right as always and I can see it. It takes me a while to catch on, but I do see this. Thank you for batting me around, but don't give up on me.

So, there is still contact. I know this and have been getting lied to. I know, I know....phone contact for sure. Not very often, but there has been.

I know if I follow my current course of action, I will end up divorced. Period. Sooner than later.

The 'extreme' case of ugly and expensive lawyer is now a reality. I have to fight for what I believe in and that is my marriage. I feel worse now being lied to (again) to my face (not to mention disrespected by the one I love).

I will talk to my bulldog tomorrow......and take steps. Please, at the risk of repeating, tell me what this will do. Scare my wife into what? Affect the affair by subpoena records, OM, etc? Make her 'not worth it' to him? Make her SO angry at me that she will 'wake up'? That last part is the one part that I do not understand. I have been the ideal husband for 3 months now (actually, I was ok overall, but the re-writing history thing has gotten out of hand).

Again, I do not want to affect my daughter in any way or my relationship time with her. Tell me (and make me understand) what will/can come out of this. I guess we have to be prepared to spend some serious $$ on this huh?

Thanks everyone...I hate to say this, but all along, everyone was right. 50 pages later...and now I get it. Keep me going and help me out...please.

Okay, first MB isn't about MAKING your WW DO anything. You fix yourself and hopefully your WW wakes up in time to reconcile with you. Thing is, you might not be around anymore.

First, you PLan A, expose A, meet ENs, avoid LBs. Then at about the point where you are losing A LOT of LB$ in your LB for your WW, you pull the plug and go into Plan B, no contact, first glimpse into divorce. Now some of these steps do sometimes "wake" the WS up. Sometimes they don't. Thing is, when you get to the end of these steps, you won't care if your WW comes back or not. You will be fine either way. Got it?

Now that the light has turned on for you, what do you need help with? Might I suggest that you re-read the basic concepts, etc on the newly betrayed thread? I just bumped it. Sometimes when you read it when the lightbulb turns on, you understand more. I have read all of the material 3 times already and I plan on doing it over and over again.

Well, Mr. Wondering and others have said to 'wreak havoc' with the attorney - full discovery, full records, etc. Is that my next step?

She will be furious. Absolutely. Do I tell her that I found out about her contact? I just need steps from TODAY. I will read and re-read tonight. Thank you all....I do not want to love bust, I do not want to lose any time with my daughter. That is my main goal.

Re-expose to everyone that she's still been sneaking behind your back w/ OM. Again, make OM's life hell for continuing to pursue your WW. Make there be consequences for his actions. Also, how has she been contacting OM. Cut off that avenue of contact. Choke the life out of her affair as much as you can. Meet with your bulldog attorney to create a plan on how to get what YOU want in the event that this divorce goes through (like staying in your house, 50/50 custody and a favorable financial settle ment), and ask him how to drag it out.

Here are your goals:

1) Get NC between your WW and OM by any means possible.

2) Get your bulldog attorney to fight for everything you want and drag it out. Subpeona OM and do everything you can to make getting divorced as difficult and painful as possible.

How do I make OMs life miserable? Unfortunately, my wife is the one doing the persuing, as she always has (I think).

So, tell me, vets come back, answer me - how is this going to end well? I am so motivated right now...yes, I have been hoping and praying for 3 months. Got me nowhere in the steps towards recovery...although life HAS gotten more peaceful (one prayer answered). My daughter and our time as well..very important.

Two sayings I have heard lately that are very applicable.

1. A marriage can survive an affair; it cannot survive lies.
2. There is no chance of reconciliation while an affair is going on.

HELP VETS. HELP ANYONE. NOW, I am really listening.

jmwc95 - not to be argumentative, but what you say I want if this divorce goes through (50/50, etc) is stuff I would get 'anyway' if I got divorced amicably. Dragging it out would be easy as well either way (to an extent). What is the point of this then? To lift her fog I think is the answer (or the 'chance' of the fog being lifted vs doing it easy and never even giving that fog a chance to go away).

Am I reading this right? I hope I can be clear on this tonight. Now, I am energized. Still bummed beyond recognition, but energized. And 50/50 sucks...really bad. I want to see her all the time - but at least I can fight and get same county for the next 16 years added to the decree (IF it happens).

I still want my wife - after all this, I still want her. Hope the vets have not given up on me yet.+

Have you exposed to anyone on OM's side? I would find out all his family members, where he works, if he's on facebook, etc., and expose to them EVERY time he contact your WW. I would also pay him a visit with some big friends and tell him to stop contacting your WW. I would give your MIL OM's phone number and see if she will pester him. Anything you can do to make your WW a pain in the butt to keep pursuing, do it.

How does this end well? Well, it determines on what your definition of "well" is. "Well" may be in the long run getting a favorable custody and financial settlement and then finding a woman in the future that is a hell of a lot better than your current wife. It may also mean reconciling with your WW. You can't control what happens, but if you fight for your marriage, stand up for yourself, and keep your head held high, things will work out in the long run for you, even if they don't work out exactly the way you were hoping they would.

The affair will end. The longer you drag it out, the more chance that the affair will die out before then, and the less impetus she has to go through with it. IF you can keep contact from occurring, then she will lose her reason to go through with the divorce. YOU need to be vigilant and prevent contact from happening. Also, you can fight for MORE than 50/50. Dragging it out give you the opportunity to document more. Waywards are notoriously bad parents who often hang themselves with their own rope in issues of custody. Consult with your lawyer to plan to achieve the most favorable settlement you possibly can get. You need to work for him to give him the ammo he needs, but ask him what he needs.

Remember, kill the affair, and it will save your marriage. The only way to fully kill the affair is NC. THAT is why your WW is still going through with the divorce.

Don't tell your wife you found out about contact. Expose first. Then tell her contact will NOT be tolerated and you will not allow it to continue. She'll be furious, but BFD. She'll get over it. You just need to lock down the avenues of contact that you can. Squeeze the life out of the affair. How has contact continued?

Igrip, you seem to be losing it a bit right now, which is totally reasonable under the circumstances. When you are worried that there is noone around to help you, there always is. What you do is re-read YOUR thread. Read another BH's thread, like Sickoflimbo, Btintrouble, Yeg, people like that. See what they were advised. A lot of times, it is the same as you were advised or you would be advised. You can also see what happens when someone doesn't take the advice, and when someone does. There are also other people who are BH's and have recovered marriages. It really is the SAME no matter what sitch. WAYWARDS are ALL THE SAME. Which is a good thing, because the advice is out there. A WW and WH differ a bit, that's why I suggested reading BH's threads. You can do this. Devise a plan and execute it. You will feel much better when you have a plan.

igrip,

well first am going thru a decsion of my own and I will say fortunately it only involves my W staying here overnight.

Okay, Scot gave you the roadmap. Please read, reread and reread her post.

It is not about 'wrecking havoc'. It is about 1) legally and emotionally protecting yourself, 2) going the exta mile in attempting to kill this affair, and 3) continuiing to change and re-model yourself for the better in spite of how your WW responds.

I can only say that I am so glad that you have responded here quickly. That only means that you have to become decisive now, based on your feelings, your intentions, and the advice you are receiving, and your honest intuition that people here are not misleading you, and they are not.

I know this is sort of anethema here as it must be on other public sites, but I am going to say the divine mercy prayers for you tonight because I feel you need that. Yea, a private religious thing but I feel I want to and need to do that for you. I ask only one thing. Look up the divine mercy site and realize my prayers for you. I know this may sound trite, insincere, and unacceptable on a public site, but I do not care. Just take time to think, and then to relax and feel good about yourself, and then sleep a good nites sleep and post here in the morning regarding the strength and courage you may feel with so many people praying for you at this point in your life.

Regards,
Tom

Here is an interesting bit for the night. Before, we were talking about something and she mentioned I sounded 'confident.' It was about her lawyer, my real estate numbers, etc...not a big deal for me.

Afterwards, I could not hold it in anymore. I asked her why she continued to lie to me. To my face. That I wouldn't treat someone on the streets in that way and here I was being lied to by the woman I love? That if she wanted to go to see OM, to go ahead and I would be glad to open the door and help her with her things. She asked 'what did I know.' I told her to tell me....I knew, I had proof and it was up to her to stop. Finally came out and told her I knew she was still talking to the OM and I had times, durations and dates. Busted.

She admitted it..after trying to buck, turn the tables back on me, etc...all weak attempts to avoid admitting. She then told me that the conversations lately (and the last ones on Sunday) were 'down' and 'over.' That they, since the exposure, had nothing to really talk about.....it was very 'systematic' conversation and that the last one was mostly silence. Ended with 'well, I guess I'll go' and 'ok then.'

So, that could be a lie as well. I understand and am well aware of that fact. But, she actually 'apologized' for lying. First apology ever. She was upset at me for involving her family as I took away a support unit for her. I told her (this one is good) that 'I just wanted to share her good news with them' and 'wasn't she going to tell them anyway.' Funny, but good (IMO).

She turned the tables around a few times..but I put everything right back on her. I was calm throughout..she tried to raise her voice a few times to which I asked her to keep it down please. All of this was done respectfully and without any lovebusters. I even threw in some compliments to her (as the woman I married was amazing and did not lie or cheat; what happened to that one). And then when she told me that she wasn't lying when she told me "OM may not be waiting for me at the end of this" I told her that she was an amazing woman and that she was worth waiting for.

So, game plan same right? Will see what tomorrow and this weekend brings with her behavior. Perhaps withdrawal starts from last Sunday?

Thanks guys...bat me around some more. This is better because for three months, I have felt out of control.

And Tom, HUGE thank you for the prayers. I appreciate your feelings towards me.

KEEP HER FROM CONTACTING OM AGAIN!

I doubt what she told you is the truth. She may have said that to keep you from exposing again. Either way, cut off that avenue of contact. If you really do kill the affair and get NC before you get divorced, you likely won't get divorced.

Yea, what Jim said. And if you insist on talking to your WW about "things" then you will need to learn how to reverse babble.

Otherwise, try really hard NOT to talk to her about these things. See how she turned it on to you a few times? THOSE in her mind were HER victories. In her mind, she got more EVIDENCE why she is RIGHT. Don't fall into that. There's NO reasoning with a wayward so don't bother. Have you ever tried to reason with someone who was high? Think of your wife as a junkie, OM is her drug.

Keep on your plan and keep reading until it makes sense. You'll get there.

Some things I can throw in,

First, listen to honest guy's post a couple pages back. My story mirrors his, exactly.

Secondly, I only kind of agree with the D advice you've been given. I don't think its a good idea to file all kinds of motions and drag things out in hopes of a reconciliation.

Listen to me here, EVERYTHING you and your lawyer do on the legal front should be towards one goal - the best possible settlement you can get. You can bet your bottom dollar that is your WW's approach. Once you decide that divorce is inevitable, it can be done quickly and amicably. However, amicable will only work in your favor if you and your lawyer prepare well and come from a position of strength. Otherwise, amicable and unprepared = you getting screwed!

Third, even if things aren't working out with your WW and OM, she is still very wayward. Without her committing to the marriage and you setting firm boundaries, there WILL be OM#2 and OM#3. Believe me, I've been there.

Schtoop, I normally agree with you and I understand where you are coming from, but I think his WW is different from yours. I think if he can kill the affair w/ OM #1, there won't be a number 2. His WW is not nearly as entitled as yours. He has admitted to being a bad and at times verbally and emotionally abusive husband before, and he has corrected that. Your WW was MUCH worse than his. Do I think his marriage will be saved? No, I'd put the odds at about 25%, and that may include reconciliation after divorce. But his WW isn't out clubbing it up and sleeping with every dude around town.

I agree with planning for the worst and hoping for the best, however.

Hi igrip,

I know this is not a social board, but just wishing you well.

Hope this weekend is going to turn your way, at least in just a little bit.

Bright sun here and hot, but busy with my gardend. So just wishing you the best.

Tom

Tom..your well wishes and prayers are just amazing. Make me smile. Thank you. And to all the other posters that help - thank you all. This community is wonderful and the caring is beyond belief. Group hug

IF IF IF she is telling the truth about her and the OM falling out last week (could be true as there were only three calls..13 minutes, 2 minutes and then 5 minutes) and she 'says' she was trying to get a reason out of him for being 'cold.' So, I 'might possibly' believe it. Maybe. Hopefully.

Anyway, this week, for the past 4 days, she has been having nightmares. And she never dreams. Is this her guilt? Is this part of withdrawal? She also barely eats at all.

Also, she 'tests' me by putting 'traps' to see if I fall for them (she hates that I have snooped in the past). For example, yesterday, she left two 'blank cards in an envelope addressed to him in her purse on the counter. The next day, she asked if I saw them and I told her I didn't even look. She opened the card and showed me the blank inside...why is she doing that? Testing to see if I am honest when I say I am not digging through her things anymore? Seeing if she can trust me?

And I am torn between giving her space and being around......fine line. Our schedules are so open that we have much of the day free. Do I just make plans with our daughter and go (invite her of course)?

Wow, the more I read, the more that EVERY WORD of a WW is the same. EXACTLY the same. Amazing.