True
But a very few of us, want to try.

Wrong

Nope, wrong. I have no idea what your story is doc but this is absolutely incorrect and please we are WAY off topic here. The topic is getting MM's marriage healing and helping her BH through the two year angry period.

MM, can you set up a counseling session with the Harley's?

OK whoa, John is my grandfather's name and OC has H middle name not first. So if we have a son together andhe wants to name it after him than he can but I wanted my grandparents names which I got John and Helen. I always said I'd want 4 children total 2 boys and 2 girls. H said we were done since he got one of each (this was said after he found out everything). If later on, if we stay together, and H wants to try for another boy than I'm all for that but we'll need to make sure we are both ready for that and we both agree that waiting until the first is outta diapers before adding another is smarter. Which is what happend with the 2 we have. If we can only afford to raise 2 children than that is something we'll have to talk about when that comes up i guess. I was able to stay home with the kids for the past few yrs but I've decided I want to go back to work now that DS is starting school and DD is a yr old and doing good with being watched by other ppl now. Might even work part time and go back to school part time, but that will depend on whether we stay together or not since I'll need to work full time to support the kids and myself if we don't.

I didn't mean to avoid any questions but just miss some and had alot going on lately. Order the DNA test yesterday. Going to get it done today and then it'll be 3-7 days for the results. Went with DDC. Also I have my counseling appointment tomorrow and H has is next week.

If there is any question I missed sorry just let me know. Things have been alright lately. I'm still unsure on where we stand. H is distant but at times affectionate. When I ask if we are trying or still getting separated H tells me both. So I'm confused. I'm still trying to work on the M by doing all the things that I realized I wasn't doing before that added to H stress and caused most of the fights.

mm, could you try to be more specific about what you are doing? What do you think your H's main ENs are? Did he ever fill out a questionnaire when he was here in 2008? Has he filled out one since? Getting that done would ensure that you are not missing the main things you should be doing.

What do you now realise that you have been doing to add to his stress and cause the fights?

Do your realise that the name "John" was just a random choice by TheRoad, like saying "John Doe"? It's quite funny that this is your son's actual name!

Wow I missed alot. I guess that's what I get when I don't get on here for a day. OK lets see if I can catch up on everything.

H knew about the A and the DNA test was done BEFORE we decided to have DD. I did not trap him by getting pregnant so lets just close that.

We each have counseling sessions set up separately first so we can work on ourselves first. I can't force H to try MC again later but hopefully his private sessions help some and he is more open to trying MC again.

I am being the best wife I can be NOW. Yes I wasn't in the past and I realize that now. I am making changes that I need to so I can be a better wife (IE: getting a job, meeting his EN & PN without getting upset about him not meeting mine since that will take time and I know that.

Yes my H does seem very upset because he does want a son and for his first born to be a son (as I did) and he feels as though it was stolen from him. I cannot change that and I do regret that fact. Yes DS might not be his bio son but H has raised him from birth, it's H's morals, values, and teachings being instilled into DS. Yes I did keep the truth from H and didn't tell him that I wasn't sure about who was the father and I truly regret that I was scared but that's no excuse for what I did. H may not be the bio father but he is dad.

Now as for the talk about OM not taking responsibility. I left that completely up to H as to if he wanted to tell OM about DS. I don't keep up with OM's life but H has. Issues started coming back up ever since OM moved back here from NY. OM is now married and has a son. *Again this is all found out by H NOT me, I want everyone to understand that so nobody tries to say anything about me being in C with OM* It seems that ever since OM moved back here that H has been thinking about everything a lot more. We were doing better until then. I'm not saying that is the reason for everything it's just another added stress on top of everything else. And I have said that I can't change what happened so I'm not sure why that keeps being said that I haven't admitted that when I in fact have.

Now I have started to think about if H and I do D should I then inform OM about OC. I'm feel it isn't right to have H pay CS for OC even though H says he will. H says that now but what about later on down the road when he has a new girl or a new family and no longer wants anything to do with OC. I'm just unsure about that whole thing.

OK now about the snooping. NO I haven't snooped. H did tell me the password to his phone and I have looked at it. Awhile back H was talking to this female co-worker a lot on the phone and by text and I found out and of course got upset. H then started deleting all the messages from just that female since it bothered me thinking that would be better. So there isn't anything on his phone (text wise) but he has erased them before. I don't want to start snooping around if he isn't doing anything wrong. Besides it's hard to do any real snooping with 2 kids and it's not like I can follow him to see if he's seeing another girl because he work training marines so for most of the time he's in the woods training.

First, yes it is funny that is my son's name and I didn't realize he was saying that by random I thought I must have said him name somewhere.

Yes H did fill out the questionare back in 2008 when we first read HNHN and we did all that stuff then. I recently found all the papers we did. No he hasn't filled out another one since and I'll ask him do it again but I'm not sure that he will want to. As I have said before H have become very distant towards me. Yes H has agreed to go talk to someone but he only did that to in a way shut me up. Like I said before when I ask H about where we stand he doesn't seem to know but says we are both trying and separating. H is more relaxed now and says he isn't sure if it's because he's on a break with work or if it's because he's fianlly got it all out (told me it was over).

H #1 need was Sex. Always has been and that was something I wasn't doing like before. So everytime I didn't want to H would like it was something about him and would wonder why he can't get any and OM could (he just told me about this). I did lose intrest in sex because I didn't like my body since having the kids and I wanted to lose weight. But also I was upset because of H work hrs, him never being home and never helping around the house.

That is another reason why I decided to go back to work. See I don't have any friends here and that's my fault for not going out to meet ppl and only had my H. So I would get angry about him working alot. I just wanted him home because he was all I had and I stayed at home with the kids all day and wanted an adult to talk to so I became dependant on him. That was the one of the main things we fought about. Which linked to the lack of sex (another BIG thing we fought about). Money wasn't a big thing but I'd get upset at him because he'd always go into the negative (thank god for the line of credit so no overdraft fees).

It seems to me that alot of our problems would be solved by me going back to work and school.

I wanted to wait until or DD was a yr old and no longer breast feeding which is now. I again just fear that it's all come too late. That even though I've come up with a solution to our biggest fights (not to say that the A isn't a problem, we just didn't fight about it) it's all just come to late and H has already given up.

Your H was triggered by OM moving back. Can you talk to H about not keeping track of OM? I think he needs to stop obessesing about what OM is or isn't doing unless HE contacts one or both of you.

I've told H over and over to stop obessesing but he don't. H did at first alot and checked on OM all the time but then when he moved to NY, H eased up and only would check on OM occationally when he would think about the A. Then when H checked on OM and found out OM moved back here H is checking on him not as much as the begining but alot more than before.

I started thinking that H didn't want to move on and H wanted to hold onto all the anger and all the thoughts. H is also changing the events on what happend. Now I have forgotten alot about what happend(as in the small details) but H seems to have a daily video diary of the whole event. But now when H starts talking about the A and everything that happend back then I think he is remembering it like he wants to and not how it actually happend. It's just small things he'll say and when I try to tell his that isn't what happen H gets upset. It was 5 yrs ago and with me the days run all together and I can't remember each and every day but H swears he does and even what OM was wearing. Which could be true but when H changes something that I do remember or he assumes alot on what went on between the OM and I and I try to correct him and give him the truth it's like he wants to remember it the way he wants and isn't interested in the truth.

This is another reason why I wanted him to go talk to someone so maybe someone else can explain to him and show him that he is obessesing and it isn't healthy for him or the M.

Counseling with the Harley's would be your BEST bet. Most counselors are anti-marriage.

Yup, and they don't even realize it.

Yes it seems that way but we just aren't able to afford Dr H. I thought about talking to them but right now we are already living paycheck to paycheck (another reason why I need to go back to work) and tricare pays for our counseling but I don't think it'll pay for the Harley's unfortuntly. I wish I could but i'm stuck with what I can get. We are trying to talk to female counselors this time since we have only talked to males before and they did no help.

I understand about the money issue. I would love to counsel with the Harleys but we are in bad financial shape right now as well. Just remember that some C's can do more harm than good for a marriage. Why not get "Love Busters" and the work book that goes with it and work through that together?

I think we do have LB, I'll have to check but all my books are in the attic since the move. Also, I'm not sure about how I'd do about snooping on H to see if he is seeing another woman. Any ideas on what I could do? I feel I might need to find out so I know if that is something that is in the way of helping my M.

Does he use a computer at home? If so, put a keylogger on the computer. Do you have access to his cellphone records to see who he texting or calling?

He has his own laptop that I have access to during the day while he is at work so I thought about getting a keylogger and finding out who he is always chatting with on FB. But there are so many out there what is a good one? Also his cell phone is another thing. That thing never leaves him anymore and he's always texting and that is what bothers me so trying to get a cell phone spy thing that involves me having to have access to his phone is hard to do. Also I looked at placing placing a VAR and GPS in his car but will the VAR be activated by music?? I guess I want to be sure there isn't something going on so I know where we stand. If there is someone than I need to deal with it if we are going to have a chance at healing. I just don't feel right spying on him when he hasn't done anything to me to not trust him.

Plus I'm not sure how i'd go about getting these things without him knowing. We have a joint account and he has access to all my accounts, credit card everything.

mm, he has done quite a lot since D Day for you not to trust him. He has talked about having his own affair, and he has become very secretive with his phone. There have been enormous red flags over his behaviour for nearly two years.

This does not negate your affair dishonesty about your son, but a BS's affair is as much a threat to the marriage as the original affair, and it is just as wrong. You won't find out whether there has been an affair unless you snoop, and you DO have strong reasons for snooping.

Yes, a VAR will be activated by music, but that is not a problem. You will just have to listen to a lot of tedious other stuff until you hear him talking. He is unlikely to have the music up so loudly that you cannot hear what he is saying - because he will want the recipient to hear what he is saying!

I used a VAR on my H a few times, and had to listen to underground train noise, station announcements, daily conversations at work - all sorts, for a few hours. But I did hear him tell his OW that he wan't going to see her again, and put the phone down on her. That was worth listening through the other stuff!

Is his cell a work issued phone? Can you access the phone records? I highly recommend a VAR. I put one in my home when I was gone for a weekend and found out my H had an affair phone with the OW. I heard several hours of one sided conversations.

His cell is a personal phone and we have a family plan but I asked sprint about getting records (IE texts) and they said I couldn't even though I was the primary. I have access to all the calls but without knowing a phone number I have no clue what to look for. And now that he never leaves his phone I can't use a cell phone sim card reader.

What do I look for? There are so many VAR's out there I'm not sure what i'm looking for.

We started having SF again, I wasn't sure about whether I should be since he was saying he was leaving and i didn't know where we stood. Like I said before with no kissing thing the first time he wouldn't even kiss me duing and still doesnt at all during the day and barely during SF. It seems like he's just going thru the motions but not really there (if that makes any sence). I guess it just for the PN and not the EN. Do I just start out my meeting his PN's until he decides to let me back in to meet the EN?