I think if I responded I would do so with only one question:

"When is adultery ever right?"

MJ, you and I both know that the answer to that question is NEVER - I don't think it will change your SIL, but MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, it will cause her to think about this further...

REGARDLESS...

Don't let your SIL's earlier response throw you - Exposure was absolutely the right choice - The goal was to remove the secrecy of the affair, and that has been done - Now you sit back and allow exposure to work it's magic - Make no mistake about it, the affair has FOR SURE suffered damage as a result...Be proud of that...

Do you by chance live in a state where alienation of affection laws apply? Even if not, I would make sure to contact OM and let him know that he WILL be named in the divorce papers - and will be called for a deposition - Make your WW too much trouble for him!

Mrs. W

Mrs. Wondering,

My WW lives in a state where adultery is tied to alimony payments. I like the sentiment behind telling the OM that he will be named in divorce papers: make the A tough for him. However, my WW might get the idea that we're headed toward divorce. What do you think?



------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids
EA: Fall '08
Move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day 2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice

One other thought: I wonder if the OM is sleeping at my WW's apartment with our two DD's. My three year old was upset two different times the other day. She mentioned the name of the OM and said he slept at mommy's. She added that the OM touched her in the legs. I don't know what to believe. My three year old also said that other people, including me, sleep at mommy's.

Suppose the OM is sleeping at my WW's. Could I file a restraining order against him?

-------------------

Me: BH, 39 (and jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids
EA: Fall '08
Move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day 2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice

Mrs. Wondering,

My WW lives in a state where adultery is tied to alimony payments. I like the sentiment behind telling the OM that he will be named in divorce papers: make the A tough for him. However, my WW might get the idea that we're headed toward divorce. What do you think?



------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids
EA: Fall '08
Move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day 2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice

I agree with you exposing the A & with SaphireReturns! Expose to the OM's family & friends...I did to the OW & I don't regret it one bit!

Good job & hang in there! I am new to this yet I like what I am reading on here!!!

The OM TOUCHED HER!?!?!

You run his [edit] over, you hear me!!!

Expose to OM's family and friends. Get that [edit] the [edit] away from your daughter! Make the A so much work he'll RUN!

(Saving the mods some trouble)

I concur. You need to file for separation and that your children cannot be exposed to anyone of the opposite sex. A MUST!

Karmasrose and ouchthathurt,

Thanks for your concern. First of all, I exposed to the OM's family and friends. Exposing anymore won't help. Second, I don't know if the OM sleeps at my WW's apartment. I plan to check soon. Seeing the pained expression on my DD's three-year-old face haunts me. As for filing for legal separation, I am avoiding the legal route as of now.







------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids
EA: Fall '08
Move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day 2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice

Here is a general question: How do you attempt to meet your WP's needs a week or so after exposure?

My WW is so mad at me, to the point that she refused to say hello or goodbye to me the other day when she picked up our kids, that calling her on the phone strikes me as unlikely to please her. All Dr. Harley seems to talk about is that during Plan A you should not commit love busters. Which is what I'm doing, but meeting her needs at a time when she hates my guts is damn difficult.



---------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids
EA: Fall '08
Move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day 2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice

~emphasis mine

MJ!!!

Before I address anything else you've said, I MUST address the above - YOU MUST ACT TODAY!!!!!! This is GRAVELY SERIOUS - Your 3 year old DD is in SERIOUS DANGER and YOU are the only sane parent and PROTECTOR that she has!!!

IMO, you call the POLICE - TODAY and let them handle this - You MUST take your DD3 SERIOUSLY about what she has said about OM touching her - PLEASE!!!

Will you do this, MJ?

Mrs. W

Plan a family activity and ask her to join you and the kids. Go any way if she declines. If she comes you get to plan A her for a bit.

MJ,

Your WW's needs take a BACK SEAT right now to the DANGER your DD3 is in...

WAKE UP!!!

YES, you DO go the "legal route" when the SAFETY of your child is at stake!!!

Mrs. W

I have asked my daughters, Neak and Neaksis, to post to you. We have a very unfortunate and intimate knowledge with the lingering traumas suffered by children who have been molested. I'm going to say this: Do not ask your daughter any more questions. You don't want what she says to be considered "tainted" by your alleged input. Nor do you need to give your WW any ammunition to use against you for "making up" allegations of abuse, just to spoil her true love. However, you should call immediately and get an appointment with whoever does this sort of questioning at your local police department. If it's a decent-sized department, they will use dolls, etc. and attempt to get her to give them direct statements. You do NOT want her to say, "Daddy told me to tell you..." You will also not be allowed in the room during the questioning. There should be a woman trained to do the questioning, but I can't guarantee this.

Someone needs to know what kind of touching this was, where it was, etc. You are NOT the one to ask this, if you want any legal protection for you, or consequences for him. Is your other daughter older? If she is, they will probably also want to question her daughter, too. Do. Not. Delay. Your wife would not be the first woman who was courted by a child molester in order to gain access to her children. Take your hand off the mouse. Leave the computer. Make the call. We'll still be here when you get back.

tl

Did your daughter just come up with this out of the blue? Did you ask her any leading questions before she said that, like, "did OM touch you anywhere?" This is important, because while you DEFINITELY want to get the police involved if she came up with this on her own, getting them involved because you asked her a leading question may make her account (and yours) suspect. Having a BIL who was falsely accused of child sexual abuse and watching his life ruined, makes me automatically step back and MAKE SURE that opening THAT can of worms is the right thing to do.

Did she say anything more about WHERE he touched her legs? How he did it?

Don't get me wrong, any OM is scum and he should NOT be around your daughter in the first place, giving him or any OM an opportunity to abuse your child, but please investigate this more before you call in the calvary.

Forget what I said, TL gave you the BEST advice as she speaks from experience on how to deal with this.

Whatever you do, you DO want to get to a lawyer and get an injunction in place that prohibits your WW from having any overnight male guests while your daughter is present. This is a reasonable request and Judges order this every day. Better SAFE than SORRY!

There's touching and there's "touching". There are legs, and there are "legs." This is why the police professional needs to find out knees vs. crotch, touch vs. rubbing. Dolls let the child show by action without having to say it as a narrative.

When our situation blew up, Neaksis' adopted daughter, the primary molestee by her bio-mom's drug dealer boyfriend, and the original molester of the other children, had been so conditioned to silence that she wouldn't give the investigators any information. Bear in mind that by the time this came to light, she'd been molested for up to 3 years, if I'm not mistaken. So the habit of secrecy was deeply-ingrained, as was her sense of shame. And she clammed up like a, well, like a clam when they took her away to ask her questions. However, she would randomly and spontaneously give bits of information to Neaksis, at that time her "babysitter".

I think it was at the 2nd attempt at questioning that I compiled a list of her disclosures and gave it to the detectives, so they would know what had been said and what they might question her about. The detective accused me of "ruining" her case by priming the pump, so to speak. And they never really pursued it after that. To the best of my knowledge, they never even questioned the man who molested at least 2 of Neaksis' adoptees, and possibly the 3rd, although his abuse was primarily psychological and physically violent. The children were taken away from their mom. Both parents' parental rights were legally revoked, and Neaksis ended up adopting them. But because they decided I had "ruined" the case by talking to her, even though it was Val--without prompting--talking to us, Mr. Perp got away without even a tap on the wrist. 8 years later, that still majorly chafes my hide and probably always will.

Let me tell you something. If abuse has begun, even if this leg touching is only the "grooming" stage, the longer it goes on, the harder it will be for the child to recover from it. Yes, people make false accusations. Your WW will doubtless accuse you of this very thing. This is why you need to follow the legal process explicitly, if you want them to protect you.

tl

Thanks for your concerns. To answer your question, my youngest daughter is 1.5 years old. She doesn't talk much.

I understand your worries about my daughter's comments. However, I messed up. I asked her what some would regards as leading questions. Examples:

-- Me: Did he touch you?
-- DD3: Yes
-- Me: Where?
-- DD3: Here (pointing to her upper legs)

What made you ask her this? Did you bring up the subject or was there something she said that triggered your suspicion? The next questions, if any, should be asked by police professionals. And before she's re-exposed to OM.

tl

thndrnltng

She woke up from her nap upset. I asked what was bothering her. She mentioned the name of the OM. I asked her if he had done anything to her. She said something about her back. Then I asked her the questions above: "Did he touch you?" etc.

I don't know what to make of her answers. I will talk with the police tonight. If they say to pursue the matter, I plan to bring my DD3 in to them.

------------------

Me: BH, 39 (and jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids
EA: Fall '08
Move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day 2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice

One unrelated question: What to do when a WS wants you to take care of the kids a night early?

I'm in Plan A, so I accommodated her request. She said she has a special work banquet to go to. But I'm wary, as three weeks ago I found out that she spent the two nights I have the kids over at the OM's house.


----------------

Me: BH, 39 (and jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids
EA: Fall '08
Move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day 2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice

At this point, you need to NOT be about saving your marriage, and everything about finding out what's happening to your daughter. Until you see the police and, I hope, find out a little about what's going on, I would agree to any and every request that she has for you to take the girls. What she does while you have them is a minor detail. Every minute they're with you, they are NOT in any danger of being around him.

First things first, OK? Here's a link to another thread from awhile back. This man's daughter was 13, but the OM used the mother as a means of access to the daughter. He did not save his marriage. He did protect his daughter. You may end up having to make the same choice.

31-year marriage down the tubes

tl