I can say no, my most enjoyable times are not always when I am doing something directly with my spouse. Somestimes, yes, but not always. There are things I enjoy that, have nothing to do with her. There are some things I enjoy that I probably wouldn't if she were apart of them. But then there are also things that I enjoy more when she is apart of them. Even times I am sad when she is not and I wanted her to be. I feel the wide range of those things.

The we, her, and me thing...I think it depends on the situation how I end up referring to us.

Mark- though I do appreciate what you always have to say and much of it is very good.
But this comment

"or even if we simply find ourselves enjoying the company of a member of the opposite sex."

I still don't understand why we can't enjoy being around other people of the opposite sex. If they are good, friendly, caring people, what is wrong with enjoying their company? I know, many say it could lead to other things that are bad for the marriage. I still contend that those things dont have to happen and it could simply be enjoying another good person. I think the more good people we have in our lives, the better off we can be.

It's been argued here hundreds of times. The short answer is the rewards don't outweigh the risks and "willpower" is unreliable at mitigating the risks.

If it helps, think of it like dessert. Life is better having cookies and ice cream until you get your next physical and realize your 40 pounds overweight. And while willpower might be enough to keep that from happening (or getting worse), environment control (i.e. don't have cookies and ice cream in the house) is considerably more reliable.

But, alas, most are convinced this does not apply to them. Some assume willpower is enough, and I suppose others (using the analogy) are okay with the extra weight so long as they get the dessert.

A world without cookies and ice cream???

Say it isn't so.

I agree, cookies and ice cream are good for this world and would be missed.

As for rp, I will ask it as a question. Do you think the more good people we have in our lives, the better?

I'll answer for myself: no.

But then I'm an introvert. I don't like people.

Tom - have all the female friends you'd like, but recognize the danger and put into place firm boundaries to prevent an inappropriate emotional attachment from even THINKING of growing.

Things like - no talking about your marriage, no private conversations, no one on one time.

I have a handful of good male friends. I don't spend time alone with them, I don't talk about my marriage with them, I have erected boundaries to keep anything from inappropriate happening.

Why is this?

I hope Tom follows all the good advice he is getting here. You guys are doing a great job of both explaonong and "selling" the benefits of the MB system. Unfortunately, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Silver lining: the morbid saisfaction we will dervice from telling him "I told you so" when he eventually has an affair with one of his female friends. Not that we want that. Not that we aren't hoping and praying it never happens. But he is such a textbook case of vulnerability, obliviousness and opportunity that it seems almost inevitable.

Maybe I should delete this. He will probably take it as a challenge to "prove" to us that he can control himself.

I think the question requires context.

But without context, I would answer no. Moderation in all things tends to more often lead to better lives. So, an open ended "more" I would not agree with.

I should not be suprised how much the word "more" was analyzed there by both Vib and rp. I did not mean and infinite amount of more. What if I toned it down to saying having more good friends/people in your life than just your spouse.

Hold- No, I don't take that as a challenge to prove I can control myself. That is not the purpose of the friendship.

More friends in life is a good thing. More friends who meet your intimate emotional needs is not a good thing.

And this is a silly question. Why not focus on improving your marriage, instead? This is Marriage Builders, after all; not Friendship Builders.

That depends - does my life have time for them?

My primary and most important relationship is with my spouse. I only have friends that recognize and accept that. We had to stop spending time with some of our friends as life got more hectic and we were having trouble even making time for us. Our friends have been more than understanding.

So yes, in as much as I have time for them - because my time with DH will ALWAYS come before them - I can have good friends. But I have a strict definition of a good friend.

A good friend is a friend to my marriage. A good friend will encourage me to have healthy boundaries.

I'm sure I told you about a guy friend I had. We would talk about our marriages, because we figured that's just what friends do. After coming here, and seeing the steps that lead to an affair, after learning how affairs start I changed my mind. The friendship barely registering on the list of how affairs start and I saw where it could go.

I showed him this website. I showed him the list. And we both agreed that no friendship was worth even the slightest risk to our marriages. We have not talked about our marriages since then. We both made a point to erect strong barriers to protect our marriages. The friendship isn't worth risking the potential harm.

That is a good friend.

A good friend is also my husband's friend. DH knows all of the people and friends I interact with on a daily basis. If I interact with them outside of work, DH is there too (in the case of male friends).

There are people from my past DH has never met. Sometimes I see them around Facebook. DH has open access to my facebook, I've told him who all my friends are and I talk to him about all my facebook interactions. I don't interact with any friends on there without DH knowing about it.

I don't even keep the confidences of friends from DH. If anyone tells me anything in confidence, I am up front and tell them if they tell me they're telling DH. My friends are ok with that because they don't believe in keeping secrets from spouses.

Those are good friends.

I can't speak for Vib, but I could tell where you were heading. There's no need to tone it down because not having friends was never what was being advised. My post was on opposite sex friendships.

I really don't care if you want to have opposite sex friendships or not. I mean that is what your saying, right? All the rest is just fluff.

I am not trying to focus on building a friendship. My friendship is just fine. I am working on my marriage, and attempting to leave the friendship out of that at the same time.

Your friendships don't belong OUTSIDE your marriage. That's putting a wall up between your wife and your friends. That is NEVER going to work for the long haul.

The reason it will never work is because your wife should never, ever be the third wheel.

That is not what I meant. I meant working on the marriage while not affecting the friendship.

If you want a healthy marriage, it will affect the friendship. As well it should. To preserve the friendship at the sake of the marriage- there's something wrong with the friendship.

You know, Tom, this time it's you that brought up the subject of the outside friend. That makes me think it's a question that you want to explore and think about more. You commented earlier that it was settled, but perhaps you noticed that you didn't persuade even a single one of the thirty-some-odd people posting to you, and maybe that is leading you to think that you should rethink this subject?

A female "friend" that you discuss your marriage issues with. A female "friend" that you are alone with, inside her house, late at night.

I will ask you again, like in the old thread you had... You dont agree with not being friends with her anymore. So can you at least stop discussing marriage issues with her and only see her with other people around...This will help protect your marriage?

Just to the missing each other when at work subject..

I miss my husband when he goes to the shop for an hour. Not that I'm sitting around moping because he's gone, or because I feel sad at all. I don't feel sad when he's not there, but I miss him because things happen that amuse me and I think how much funnier it would be if I could share it with him at that moment. Sometimes I'll be in a conversation with someone else and I think about how useful his input would have been at that moment.

Or I might have an issue with someone and it will start me thinking about how effortless communication is with my husband and how hard it can be with other people.

So when I say I miss him, its not that I'm a pathetic limpet, we're out and about doing all sorts of fun activities and having a great time, but that time would ALWAYS be better if he was there and I can be aware of that while still being happy.

You know, I often wonder if Meet the Parents is really as funny a movie as I think it is. We saw it on one of our very first dates. That was the day I realized that everything was just BETTER because it was shared with him. Things are funnier, happier, more exciting, just cuz he's around.

You're right - when I miss him, it's not a pathetic sort of thing... I just miss having a chance to share something good with him. Often I'll have funny conversations at work and I think "I wish he were here, this is so funny."

Another way of putting your spouse first, making them the number one priority of your life. Wanting to share your best and funnest moments with them.