Lingerie too - Some new bras and panties might help you feel a bit sexier and more confident as well.

I approve this suggestion... and think I shall take it myself. Gotta embrace the new - post baby me...

Ash--my idiot counselor suggested we try a "controlled separation," too, and that just led us to DDay #2. It was just what my then-cake-eating H wanted.

I'd be willing to bet that 99% of all relationships that go to "trial separation" progress on to "permanent separation."
Good luck!

I've been and looked at 'Sexual Aversion' & I think you're on the money, but as an 'also' to the inhibitions.
I copied the article to a Word Document & deleted the bits that aren't applicable. I am thinking of giving it to my hubby, in due course.

I 1st want to go through the Basic Concepts with him, and take it a step at a time.
The good news is, the 'angst' seems less.
We've had some good conversations and even a few cuddles!
I know that he's 'holding back' to prove a point, but I'm depositing into the love bank.
Don't get me wrong, its a 50/50 problem, but I hope I'm right in thinking that 1 of us has to make the 1st move, & I've decided it's going to be me.

I've also been brave/bold enough to search the net for articles on 'spicing up' your sex life. From all the sites, I've downloaded a few books. here's hoping I don't 'chicken out'.

I spoke to him on Saturday about Seperation being a Trial Divorce & started the conversation of as
"I have a progam I would like to try 1st" & printed sections of your advise.
He said " We'll run it past our Dr."
Fortunately I had already e-mailed him with the same info. The Dr replied today & asked us to jot down some thoughts to discuss at our appointment tomorrow (Tuesday)

Please let me know if I'm on the right track
Thanks so much again, your advice has been amazing

GOOD FOR YOU! I would definitely go over the basic concepts with him. Also, let HIM read the article on Sexual Aversion. He can help you overcome this.


This is a great idea! Actually, I have some advice I'm of two minds on. My initial bit of advice is to plan a getaway for the two of you to connect sexually. Some place you can be alone and meet your 4 ENs: Affection, Conversation and Recreational Companionship all leading up to Sexual Fulfillment.

Maybe go shopping together for lingerie. Then get a nice room, and take your new 'clothes' for a spin. I advise this because it gets you out of your element, into somewhere new. You may feel less inhibited, being in a room not yours, in a bed not yours, in new sexy clothes you picked out with your DH.

Just an idea to throw out there for you to consider.



You're getting there. The biggest thing is to get DH on board. It is easiest if you BOTH start working at this. Ideally you start meeting each other's ENs at the same time, you work on eliminating your hurtful behaviors together. You schedule 20+ hours together and work on being enthusiastic about one another and you will see definite improvements.

If you can, I'd consider looking into coaching or at least the online program, so you can have an experienced professional help you through the program. They will motivate you and give you advice and ideas of how to work through the program.

I've just had another long chat to my hubby.
I'm really not sure what to make of it.

I told him how I now had an understanding of the Huge importance of Sexual fulfillment & that I have a plan on how to overcome my inhibitions etc.
He said, "You can't just get that from reading a few books, or taking a magic pill, it has to come from inside"

I know that, & I tried to explain that I didn't understand that inhibitions could restrict Me that much!

He said that the flame isn't there for him anymore.

I spoke to him about how much we both have to lose if we don't try everything & leave 'No stone unturned' & that we had so little to gain if we seperated.

He said I musn't force things & could he sleep on it.

I honestly have No Idea what to do or what's going on. I feel like I'm swinging on a massive pendulum

How do you work the 'on line program' & get the professional advice.

When I looked it up, it had the books & dvd's.
I already have the books. What I really need is the onoe on one advise

It does have to come from inside. He is right about that. Good SF will come from being in love with your husband, for you.

Think of this as a spiral that can go either up or down. You don't feel in love and develop an aversion, so you don't want to have sex. Since you're not having sex and since sex is key for feeling in love, you're less in love, which makes you want sex less which makes you less in love. Negative spiral down.

However it can also work the other way. You're not in love just yet, but you give it a try. It's awkward and uncomfortable at first but you try to have sex. You manage to connect. You make love deposits (*snicker*). You start feeling in love again, you keep having sex, you're more in love, you start WANTING sex, you're falling head over heels for each other and are having sex a LOT more because you WANT to. Positive spiral up.

What helps this along is it isn't done in a vacuum. It is done in conjunction with meeting OTHER important Emotional Needs. Your husband starts meeting your needs the way you like them met and you start feeling good about him, you start liking him more, even falling in love with him- this makes you feel more positive about having sex with him. You start acting loving towards him and meeting his ENs. He realizes you care about him and SF is you being loving towards him, he starts to fall in love with you back.

You both start eliminating all the things you do that hurt each other. You become confident that each is going to protect the other, love and care for them. That makes you incredibly more attractive to each other. It makes you feel safe having SF with one another.

MB is holistic. You do it all at once, all the portions. Now it is overwhelming and difficult at first as you change your behavior. It may be two steps forward one step back for a while, but you start making progress. You stumble and fall but before you know it you're off to the races.

But it has to start with the first step. Someone has to be willing to go first to break the negative cycle you've become stuck in. You've decided you can try to make that step.

You change your behavior and then the feelings will follow, you won't have to force it or fake it, and it WILL come from the inside. But you have to take that first leap into the darkness. You have to make the first step - the one you don't think you can make, the one you think will be pointless. You have to stretch and find the ground underneath you.

Tell him you believe the flame could come back - for both of you. This plan, if you BOTH implement it together and completely, CAN rekindle that flame for you.

Links for you:

Courses

The Coaching Center

I am trying to take the 1 st step, but I'm not getting much positive feedback from him.

How do I take the 1st 'move', when he says don't force it, you're rushing me. I feel like I keep finding a solid rock wall of resistance

Maybe hold off on the SF thing. Some men don't want it if they think their wife is 'forcing' herself. It makes them uncomfortable. So wait on the SF thing for a little bit. Focus on his OTHER ENs. See if you can get him to work on the EN and LB Questionnaires.

Focus on getting your 20+ hours of UA time.

Fill each others Love Banks. Then maybe he'll be more willing to address the sex issue.

I keep saying 'Thank you' & I really mean it.

I think we should still go to our Doc's appointment this afternoon. I want to show him all the info I've gathered.

I know him well & have had a good relationship.

When we meet, I think I should talk 1st, & have a list of Plan A etc

Plan A
Acknowledging we haven't been in 'in love'for awhile, but our 25 years together is a Solid Foundation.
I acknowledge my mis-understanding of SF & what steps I've taken to overcome inhibitions/aversions
Give my reasons why Trial Seperation won't work.

What I don't know is, how to manage with comments like:
"I need more freedom" I want to be able to meet with my friends when I want to, go away when I want to"

Vibrissa is giving you such great ideas.

I just wanted to comment on the "I need more freedom" comments.

In using MB concepts, undivided attention (UA) time is very important. If hobbies, work, same-sex friendships, even extended family interferes with those important hours together as a couple, there's this domino effect that occurs. Independent behavior occurs more and more because that bond between the two of you weakens more and more. Marriage is like any sort of project. You need to spend significant time on it in order to see positive results. Marriages don't survive very well on autopilot. Certainly there are couples who do live like that, but it's an existence versus a happy life together.

I think when your husband talks about going away and meeting his friends, you can tell him that both of you have a responsibliity to protect the marriage. I think it's not 'out there' to explain to him that certain behaviors do erode marriages over time, and that POJA is one concept that will help you both avoid doing things that will weaken the marriage.

For instance...I can see the following as being potentially threatening to the stability of a marriage:

1) Overnights away from one's spouse.
2) Hanging out with opposite sex people.
3) Hanging out with anyone who is not supportive of the marriage and respectful of your spouse.
4) Allowing any activity to infringe on your UA time with your spouse.
5) Encouraging people of the opposite sex to divulge information to you about their own marriage or personal life. (Can lead to an emotional affair, which can then mutate into a physical affair.)
6) Not avoiding situations that puts you one-on-one or alone with opposite sex individuals.

Sometimes we get complacent about these things. Our spouse doesn't protest, so we think it's okay. That doesn't necessarily mean they're okay with the behavior. It may mean that they just don't see the harm in it until it has become a habit and has weakened the marriage. Learning what behaviors are damaging to the marriage and agreeing together to avoid those behaviors is a good idea. If we don't start those behaviors, if we recognize them as unproductive to the marriage, then we never have to stop those behaviors that we may have grown attached to, despite their jeopardizing effects.

Ash - good luck at the appointment. Right now the idea is to sell him on MB as a program as the WAY for you to restore your marriage. If he actually says something like this say - "I'd like for you to have some freedom and keep a happy marriage at the same time. I think this program will help us learn how to do that." And leave it at that.

Because MB WILL teach him how to do that.

Now as to freedom in marriage. There ARE limits to how much one can have and still maintain a happy marriage. One can't be out on the town, taking trips with friends every weekend, and still expect to come home to a happy marriage. That is a sacrifice one makes for MARRIAGE (not for your spouse, but for the actual marriage).

But it is possible to have some 'me' time and still practice MB and have a happy marriage. You just have to learn how to do it right.

Soolee's guidelines are right on. There are some ways that 'freedom' can damage a marriage, and those need to be protected against. But there is plenty of room for freedom, after the needs of the marriage are met.

Some examples:
DH got a punching bag for Father's Day. He LOVES that thing. He's always out there punching on it. Every time he goes while I'm at home, he asks if it's ok with me to go out there and reassures me that if I want time with him, he wont go. He never wants me to feel neglected for the bag. I always reassure him that if I'm missing him I'll call him so we can spend time together. Usually I use that time to play with DD or make dinner.

DH is probably going for a day trip this weekend to see a friend. I am enthusiastic about this trip and am making plan for a girly day with DD.

DH has the freedom to do what he wants, because we are in love and our scheduled 15+ hours of UA time is satisfied every week. We try to make anything that will have to be done individually at the same time, so one person isn't waiting on the other. DH and I are both extremely introverted and need down time to ourselves frequently. We just make sure to have it at the same time. I read a book while he watches a movie, etc.

The UA time has to come first, but after that, because we ARE in love and recognize the importance of 'extra curriculars' to one another - we work to fit that in as well. UA time first, though.

But you don't need to tell your H about the particulars in the first meeting, because every element of MB hinges on other parts, it would be a lengthy discussion that could devolve into arguing over minutia. Right now the plan is to get him on board, and together learn how to do MB. So just stay on point. This is a program you've found that you think will work. You think this program can provide the tools you need to find solutions to your problems.

Because it CAN and WILL do that, if you're both on board.

Hi -

Well the meeting at the Doc was a 'Complete Disaster'.
I had printed out all the information from MB including the Plan & that Trial Seperation is a Trial Divorce - Absolutely Everything.
I delivered it to his Rooms this morning & he said he would have a look over it before we met.

My hubby collected me from home & we went together,

The Doc gave us a 'Heads of Agreement' List, of all the points relating to our Trial Seperation i.e.
How Long?
Accomodation?
Finances?
Date Night?
Outside Relationships?
Councelling?
Personal Time?

He said that we must go thru each point, agree to them & then sign a Letter of Agreement.
He hadn't read a word of all the topics I had given him!

Anyway, to cut a Long story short - The only Body Language I could read from my hubby was:
OK, we'll give this a try, but I'm going thru the motions to prove I've tried.
It was like trying to work with a blank wall.

I've been thru 3 months of the worst nightmare roller coast ride imaginable. I've tried all avenues, read so many books, researched so many topics, looked really deep at Me & I could just see 'Nothing'.

After about an hour of back & forth, I stood up & said:
'I'm sorry, but I cannot do a maybe/perhaps/ we'll see approach'
I'm a very All or Nothing person, when I'm committed to anything, I give everything.

I walked out, called my driver & waited for him at the gate.

My hubby came to me & said "Come on, stop being stupid, I'll give you a lift home'

Well, when I did get home, via my driver, he was waiting for me.

'I don't understand how you can do a 360, yesterday you were all over me, & today you walk out'

The bottom line is I can't do this anymore, my boys are suffering & my health is becoming iffy - I have Multiple Sclerosis.

He said, could he stay in the house tonite & move tomorrow.
I said 'No' You so desperatly want your freedom - I've opened the door & let you go, but Go Now

This is your Doctor - as in PHYSICAL doctor that's recommending this?

Why on EARTH are you even consulting him?

Does your husband WANT this separation?

If he does that is a big flag for an affair.

You can fix your marriage, you really can. But you have to start working MB stat. You can't do that with him out of the house. Tell him you're not interested in separating. Tell him you want to try to work this together.

You don't NEED your doctor. Get coaching here.

Ash - I'm so sorry it went so badly - but don't despair. You can still turn this around!

((((Ash))))

Right this minute the only thing I feel is relief.
Relief that I don't have to deal with this vortex of emotions - 1 minute yes/ then,no.

I'm sitting with my sons, we are just chatting & actually laughing. When my hubby's here, they go to their rooms because of the atmosphere.
They are Too Important!

My hubby has moved to the 2nd house on our property, so he's only 50 meters away.

I really think he DOES want this seperation. He's done absolutely nothing, other than 2 appointments with the Doc, to work on our marriage.
He says 'we have grown apart'
'He wants to have his freedom'

Everytime I ask him "What does he want"
He says (other than the above 2 comments) - 'I don't know'

Will you give this 100%?
His response - 'Let's take it 1 step at a time' - As if he need a back door
He was OK with the doc recommending a 5-6month Trial Seperation.

I wish I could read the future

Your marriage is going to END with this separation. It will.

"I don't know" isn't a plan.

If you want to take it 1 step at a time tell him his first step is to come here and read the basic concepts.

The second step will be to call the coaching center.

Develop a plan for rebuilding your relationship that includes meeting your needs, and spending TIME together.

You've grown apart because you've allowed yourself to grow apart. But you CAN grow back together.

The BEST scenario for you boys is not to have two parents living apart who barely tolerate each other. The BEST scenario is two parents who love, respect and care for one another. Two parents who demonstrate to them what a happy marriage is.

I learned MB from my HUSBAND, before we even found this website we were living 85% of it. Thats why we never fell out of love. My husband learned it from HIS PARENTS.

The best gift you can give your children is a loving marriage with their father.

You have to think with your head right now - not your heart. Your emotions would have you make decisions as if the way you feel now is the way you have always and will always feel. Your feelings have no memory, they exist purely in the present. If you don't love each other now - your emotions would have you believe you never really loved each other and you will never love each other. But go back to on your wedding day - your emotions would have had you believe you could NEVER fall out of love.

That's why you can't make decisions based purely on how you feel RIGHT NOW. Because feelings are fickle.

This marriage can be saved and can become better than it ever was. It really can. Do you want that? Because you CAN do that.

My Head knows you are right & I have done so much to try & keep our marriage together, but my hubby 'has left the building'
There's just Nothing there.

Here is a copy of the Letter I e-mailed to the Doc, this morning:

Dear ****edit****

Thank you for your e-mail.

I am sorry, but I cannot follow your advice for the Trial Separation/ Divorce.
And my reasons are:
Over the last 3 months (That I know about), ****edit**** has expressed & shown his need for "****edit****Time".
The obvious interpretation of this, is that his needs have changed & being married to me is no longer one of them.
****edit****has said to me that he needs 'To be Free' & again the interpretation is:
Of Me & Our Marriage for him to explore his freedom & new needs, without the responsibility & conditions that come with marriage.

I cannot live under the emotional stress of:
Maybe it will work
Could we get back together
And as Kim put it yesterday, 'Taking 1 step at a time'

I have been married to ****edit****for 25 years, & during All of that time, for me, it's been a 100% commitment & would have stayed 100%.
Please don't misunderstand, I have made mistakes during that time, but, again for me, nothing has changed.
I still love ****edit****
I still want to be married to ****edit****

The difference now is, I am giving him want HE wants.
I am no longer going to stand in his way.
I have opened the door for him to leave, so that he may peruse his dreams without me as emotional baggage

How ****edit**** proceeds with this, is up to him.
But, I need emotional security and your method will not work in giving me that.
I need my husband to love me, in sickness & in health, to nurture & protect me, to be my lover, friend & confidant, ALL of the time.

It is also completely unfair on ****edit**** and ****edit****and as a their mother, I need to protect them.

Regards
****edit****

Is it rude to ask you - Which Time Zone you live in?
I'm Central African Time or Italy, at the moment we are GMT +1

If I know, then I can make sure to be near my computer at the right time, if you are on-line

Thanks so much