Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 6 of 13 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 12 13
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 533
W
Member
Member
W Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 533
Originally Posted by Redeem_Me
...For me, it's good that the OM wrote me a letter saying that he's madly in love with his W. When I'm particularly weak, I can always look back to that letter and remind myself that he wants her, not me.

BURN that letter, and any other correspondence, pics and gifts he gave you. Dont hold onto those things.

What's particularly hard, though, is that he had told me that he felt I was the greatest love of his life. I've read my MB readings, so I know that he wasn't thinking clearly at that time, but it's still hard to fully give up that idea that I was that important and fully loved by the OM. Especially now that my H has weakened feelings of love for me (and understandably so).

So did your husband at one time. I can tell you that right now if you want (I won't). It all depends on who you want to have fill your LB.

I feel like I'm a mess these past few days especially... Why can't I fully give in to the fact that the OM didn't really love me? This wasn't real love-- this was all fantasy. I need to accept that fact and it's sooooo hard to do.

Your Affair was partially based on fantasy. You were only around each other when you were in good moods. The rest of the time you did not spend together were filled in with fantasy. You are not with OM right now, so you are filling that empty time without him with fantasy, and loving the fantasy.

And then there are these nagging feelings that all I need to do is talk to the OM, not even for romantic reasons. Rather, I just want him to tell me the truth that he never loved me so that I can let him go completely. But talking to him or communicating with him in any way is now forbidden for the rest of my life. I'm not sure that I work this way, that I can be okay with no contact for the rest of my life. It's very unlike me to be able to accept that in general. How do I deal with that? Is it possible that a friend of mine can contact him for me just to get the latest, or is that TERRIBLY WRONG??

You have the nagging feeling of reigniting the affair under the pretense of "closure" or whatever. Every time I hear about closure on these boards what really happens is an excuse to reignite the affair. DONT DO IT. So sad to see you ruin your marriage thinking of someone else.

Its tough for me to hear about your struggles. At least you are displaying them here so we can try to knock some sense into you. whether by gental persuasion or a 2x4. We want you to have a better marriage.

Last edited by Wheels_spinning; 07/20/10 04:09 PM.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
Here's something I posted on this board awhile back.

Read this from the BW's eyes. YOU are the OW. SHE KNOWS the OM inside and out. All his qualities. All his defects. You do not. What THEY have is reality. What you had was fantasy based on nothing more that what you each wanted the other to see.

She is part of what makes him wonderful. You are not. You are the enemy to OM becoming the man he was meant to be.



OW never had my H.

She saw him from afar�

Successful business man,

Loving, involved father,

Committed, caring husband�

And she wanted him.

She thought she could just take what belonged to me�love and commitment�and have it for herself.

But the moment she entered his life, that man disappeared.

She had a man who didn�t remotely resemble the man she had attempted to steal.

All the qualities that attracted her to him were gone because of her existence in his life.

And when OW was stripped away from his life, my husband returned.

She still has no idea what it feels like to be loved by my husband.

She�s never looked into his eyes and seen his soul.

She will never have a hint of the bond we have shared for 25 years.

She had nothing, and she has even less today.

I have my husband, the man I�ve loved for 25 years. My children have their father, the man they�ve known and loved for all their lives.

She won a few battles along the darkened road,

but WE won the war�

me, my husband, and our children.

Last edited by sexymamabear; 07/20/10 04:02 PM.

Happily married to HerPapaBear



Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,769
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,769
How long did your A with OM last?
blessing


atena
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
RM,

What do you think are your BH's top 3 ENs?

What have you done today to meet those needs for him?



Happily married to HerPapaBear



Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
Originally Posted by atena
How long did your A with OM last?
blessing


It would also be helpful to know:

How long have you been married?

Where did you meet OM?

What are your children's ages?

Maybe this is on your thread, but I read through some of your posts and did not find this info.

Thanks.


Happily married to HerPapaBear



Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,769
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,769
I skimmed the thread but was not able to tell if she has kids or not and how long her M is going for and how long was the A.
blessing


atena
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
RM,

Do not contact the OM, not by proxy, not directly, not by googling him or looking for him on facebook. Destroy every memento. Toss any significant clothing. Erase him from your life. Yes, it hurts. Yes, he is in your brain....like an addiction. But just like an alcoholic who says, "I just want to HOLD the can of beer," it won't work.

There is no magic formula for getting rid of OM feelings. It's part of the process. It took awhile for me. And even when I no longer had "feelings," there were the memories that triggered a response. You just have to do your best to replace those thoughts. Stay occupied with the important stuff. It got better for me when I realized the OM was just a fill-in-the-blank person. It wasn't really him. Anyone who came along and "made me feel that way" would have fit the bill. It wasn't real. It was based on lies.

DH was real. He was the one to whom I said I Do, the father of my children.

Focus on what is real.

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 70
R
Member
Member
R Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by lurioosi2
Focus on what is real.


I guess this is really the problem for me, having to accept that the A I had (which lasted for 9 months) was not real. Hard to accept that I was really that "insane" (for lack of a better word) to think that it was real and the OM and I could truly be together. Crazy...

Sexymamabear, thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing what you wrote with me. I needed to hear that. You are right, I never really knew this man. It was not love. Thank you for reminding me of that.

Yes, I have two kids, both under the age of 5.

I'm beating myself up inside about this A. I hate that I did this, I hate that I felt like I loved the OM, I hate that I could do something so cruel to my H and kids. How did I let this happen?

Sorry my posts are all over the place. I'm trying to run from the truth but it keeps sneaking up on me. Thank you to you all for reminding me daily that I need to do better for my H, that he is the main man that I need to be thinking about.


Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,499
N
Member
Member
N Offline
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,499
RM,

Congratulations on sticking it out on here. Don't worry about your posts being all over the place, we can handle it.... grin

About your thought on OM.....banish them. If you are having trouble, remember his WIFE. Your "other" victim. Every time you wonder what's going o in his life and their MARRIAGE (which is truly NONE of you business.....), remember this quote I'm about to show you.....

If was written bt Sugarcane to Looking4, a FWW who used to post here. She struggled with this as well. SC wrote her an amazing post that helped her through this bit of the fog. She put into words so eloquently what many other BS's are dealing with. I KNOW I did. And it's a part of the process.....the process YOU brought on. I'm not saying this to be rough or mean, but to help to keep owning your actions........

You WILL get through this......

I also picked this quote out because of your remarks last week about OM getting off "Scott-free". I was on vacation so I couldn't reply with this sooner, but seeing as though you have returned to this point a bit, now is as good as then.

Not2fun

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Thank you for your answer. Looking4.

What you wrote brings me to something you said earlier. I know you have explained that you were only venting when you wrote about feeling used, but I wonder if you have really dealt with your responsibilities in getting involved in another person's marriage.

You wrote:

So why am I still so mad at OM? I was spewing to my H about it two days ago. I feel that the OM exploited my vulnerabilities and broken marriage to get in my pants then kicked me to the curb like garbage once his W found out, even though the OM and I had ended it ourselves before. I know, I know, I know... I deserve no sympathy. And doing NC quick and abrupt was needed for all of us. I know all of this in my head. But it doesn't make it feel any better, knowing how completely used I was for the OM's thrills. I thought I was in love with this man and that I was smarter than that. And I feel like he's laughing at me about it. He and his wife are moving on and I really do want that if that's what she wants. (Dang, she has no idea the things he told me. She would so be out the door if she knew, even if they were just lies.) But there's the little piece of me that is still so angry about how he used me, lied to me, then left me in a heap on the side. Again, I know that's how it has to be and that affairs don't have happy endings. But I'm angry that I'm left standing here known as the home-wrecking wh**e and he's merrily going along like all's well that ends well. Obviously, I'm still grappling with this. Sorry 'bout that little rant (end quote).

You should not assume for one minute that "he and his wife are moving on", if by that you mean that his wife is not paying dearly for your involvement in her marriage. I would suggest that she is shattered by this and that her world has come to an end. You would do well to read the many stories by BSs here about the moment of discovery and gain a glimmer of insight into how devastating that moment feels. Your words to OM showed her that, not only had her husband been having a sexual relationship with you, but that deep feelings (perhaps words of love) had been expressed by both of you and that he had considered leaving her and their children for you. If you told him that your life was as bad as you said in your post, then she would have known instantly that he had told you that his life was the same.

She found out in a text message that her H did not love her, was suffering seeing her face first thing every morning, was merely enduring her kisses as he left the house and returned from work, was hating lying next to her in bed and wishing you were there instead, was hating spending weekends with her when he could not escape to work and had longed for their last holiday to be over because he could not stand pretending to be happy for extended periods in her company. For some time now he had wanted to get away from her, her boring parents, the tedious get togethers with friends in which happiness was being faked, the hypocritical wedding anniversary dinner at a restaurant that he had had to pretend to enjoy, his having had to sign cards to her with "love you always, X" when he hadn't meant it... he had hated everything about his unhappy lie of a marriage to her. He had wanted to be far away from everything to do with her, except for their children. He loved his children enough to try and give them stable childhoods, but every day was torture, and she had not known this until that moment. However difficult things had grown to be between them, she had never realised that he must be feeling THAT BAD, and she saw it in that moment she picked up his phone. You cannot imagine how that felt, but I can, because that is what happened to me (D Day 2).

What your OMW went on to do was to listen to him ask her not to give up on the marriage, to his telling her that he loved her and always had done, that he had not stayed only for the children and would not be doing so now, if she gave the marriage another chance. She had not believed him and does not still, but she is prepared to put her children's needs above her own, for now, and so she is staying in the marriage. She is living with monumental unhappiness because she knows her children would be badly affected by divorce, and she cannot bear to put her happiness above theirs. I don't know what he told her about his feelings for you, about the depth of your involvement and about what he had actually told you about loving you and leaving her. Be assured, however, that if she is prepared to try again in this marriage, she is choking on her misery over how intimate he became with you.

Quote:
(Dang, she has no idea the things he told me. She would so be out the door if she knew, even if they were just lies.)

It is very likely that she has by now found out the nature of the things he told you. Do you think that she is only prepared to stay because he has managed to pass off the affair as a fling, in which he was cool and upfront about what he wanted from you? Do you think that she has not demanded more details from him, that she has not challenged him when he gave the "light" version of the affair ("why is she saying these things about her feelings for you, if you never said them to her?"), that she has not picked him up endlessly on inconsistencies and illogical statements, that she has not asked him to show her previous emails between you and discovered the basic, appalling details of how far this relationship went?

You've made an apology to her, but I wonder whether you have really thought about what you have done to her. Certainly, you seem to think that their marriage is relatively untroubled, and that he is "merrily" going on with his life, and by implication, she with hers.

She is doing no such thing. She is thinking every minute when she is awake, and having bad dreams in her sleep, about whether he is lying about his feelings for her and cannot stand her, about whether he feels repulsion when she initiates sex and he makes an effort only because he has not got you, whether he cannot bear the way she feels inside, is disgusted by her stretch marks (that he gave her, with their children), finds her stringy breasts revolting and her ageing face and grey hairs peeking through, difficult to look at.

He probably feels no such thing, but she will not know that now, or for some time yet. He had a thrilling affair with you, a woman that he had long been attracted to, and so must find gorgeous. How does he come down from that and go back to loving the woman that he was driven away from?

When she works out, as I have done, that the problem is not with her but with her H, she will not feel any better. She will then be faced with trying to rebuild a marriage with a man who had no appreciation for what he has with her, no commitment to extraordinary protection for her or his marriage, no compunction about destroying his children's futures for sex on the side and only the fear of getting caught to stop him becoming involved with someone else further down the line.

She isn't feeling good about her life or her marriage and it will be a long time before she does again. You should acknowledge that, and never write about her again as if she is untouched by this and you are the victim.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
RM, you are already getting some great advice from some awesome posters...but I just wanted to say I am following along and rooting for you. I have a lot of hope for you & your M. Hang in there smile


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
That post to Looking4 just ripped out my heart. The OM in my case was single...but my brain turned it around, and I thought about how it applied to by DH....all those things he must have felt.

Adultery is so vicious and so not worth it.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,757
G
Member
Member
G Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,757
Originally Posted by Redeem_Me
I'm beating myself up inside about this A. I hate that I did this, I hate that I felt like I loved the OM, I hate that I could do something so cruel to my H and kids. How did I let this happen?
R/M, I know where you are. For months after my affair, when it came up in conversation with my confidants, our marriage counselor or even on occasion my wife (not advisable), I said I felt at the time (during the affair) as though I "loved" the OW...

But when you're as far out from your A as I am from mine now, I hope you'll see that it wasn't love. Infatuation, yes, absolutely. Love, no. Doing what you did to your H when you had the affair was not borne of love, but of your selfishness. In the same vein, your OM's act of horning in on your marriage was no act of love, but was selfishness on his part. The two of you satisfied your mutual selfishness together; he for God-knows-what motivation, you because you got too lazy to do the tough spadework in your relationship with the guy you said 'yes' to when he asked you to marry him.

Beating yourself up isn't altogether bad. Feeling guilty isn't altogether bad. As I was told here once, it means you have a conscience, which means you're less likely to do this awful thing again.

However, the key is to leverage that guilt (which can be paralyzing) into remorse, which leads to action. Begging your pardon, but you need to be thinking about, listing, planning & doing things to restore your relationship with your H. I would suggest that you make very specific responses to the various questions that SMB has posted to you. These things are action-oriented. They will focus your energy. They will occupy some of the dangerous idle time that you now spend feeling sorry for yourself. Post your answers here. Begging your pardon, but you need to do this, more than you need a wayward-wives' pen-pal club to emote & commiserate with.

You will have that much more difficulty in getting through withdrawal if you indulge yourself in lamenting how badly you feel & how much you miss the OM & his attention.

As I told you in an earlier post, withdrawal is a *itch. You need to fight through it. You need to fight your way through to your husband, to BE again that person whom he wanted to marry, BE that person & then some. That requires action, not just emotion. You don't just feel chemistry. You choose to create it. You can create it with your husband. It can be done.

P.S. -- A note from experience: Your H doesn't need to hear that you "loved" OM, either. My advice.

Last edited by GloveOil; 07/20/10 08:31 PM.

Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 112
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 112
You said that you are wondering if your H is the kind of man you want. I had picked out some little nitpicky things about my H that agitate me whenever I gave myself permission to communicate with OM. But, overall, these are things I could live with. No one is perfect. OM is obviously not perfect (seeing how he is capable of deceiving his BW who he is "madly in love" with). If your H is not the kind of man you want, most likely OM is not the kind of man you want either.

When all of this started with me, I had these feelings (this passion and excitement and fire); I was invigorated by my conversations and little flirtations with OM. This is what I want to feel!! At first, I thought it was fairly harmless...just taking advantage of a good feeling here and there; but the fire quickly burned me up ('til I began telling myself that I love him). Everyday I told myself that I love this OM. So now I do love him because I drove myself into this position. I found myself searching out websites, and came upon this website, because I knew that I was reaching my breaking point.

But you know what those feelings remind me of? It kinda reminds me (to a lesser degree) of my feelings when I was first with my DH. Yeah, I distinctly remember the passionate intense love my DH and I shared back then. I knew he (my DH) was the kind of man I want(ed) under the heat of those intense feelings. Do you recall such a time with your DH? Do you recall the time when you just knew he was the man for you?

The problem with coming to the conclusion that he may not be the "kind of man" you want-- while you are in the midst of "passion"-- is that you are setting yourself up for a pattern of such decision-making. So you find the man you want until this passion dulls and 7 years from now, you are back here again. I will assume you never want to be in this position again.

Remember what you already know-- pull it out of your subsconscious-- your DH is, indeed, the man you chose first, accepted first, loved first...and the man you want(ed) first.

I have withdrawal, too. Everyday right now. I can think of many reasons why I absolutely MUST contact OM...all of which would cause me to backtrack on my recovery. The truth is I need to see him "to feel" what I enjoy feeling. That's all. Even if I get to see him so he can 'tell me that he doesn't feel for me what I feel for him', I believe I would still feel the excitement of being with him in those moments, imploring him to explain himself to me, comfort me...he77, I might even try to convince him that he is mistaken and that he actually does love me. It's very risky business.

Besides, if you speak with OM and he confirms that he really does love you and he says he meant it when he said you were the "greatest love of his life", how does that give you closure? He already told you that he is not going to leave his BW whom he is "madly in love" with. Do you want a chance to convince him to leave his wife? (Doesn't that question alone make you feel uncomfortable?) For OM to confirm his "greatest love" for you would only prove to confuse you further, misdirect your focus from your H, and cause greater conflict in your M. You don't need that. NC is critical.

Okay, as someone in the trenches with you, I'm not going to lie...it's HARD to think I won't see OM EVER. So don't think about EVER. For now, think about a week, 2 weeks, a month, 6 months, a year, 2 years. Can you take it one step at a time? Maybe in two years you might pass him on the sidewalk and be able to say "Hi" and keep moving along. By then, you will have recovered your M and have the strength to keep going. By then, you will have pulled out of your subconscious all of the many reasons your DH is the kind of man you want. I hope.

...NOT because it's "the right thing to do"...BUT because you genuinely LOVE your husband. ...because your H is your best friend and you want to be beside him to give him all the best feelings of his life. ...because you recall the passion you shared with your DH when you fell in love, maybe you will fall in love all over again. If you're only there because "it's the right thing to do", you probably won't be such a pleasant participant. Aim to be there with your whole self...and eventually you'll be there with your whole self. I hope.

Hey, I was/am all over the place, too. It's like your own heart and body is betraying you...pulling you in two directions. But just like I kept telling myself I love OM and got myself into this position, I can keep telling myself about the man I chose first and that I love first. I'm embarrassed to have brought myself to this place in my life just for the passing feelings of passion...but I will learn from this, get past it, and I won't allow myself to be in this position again.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 987
V
Member
Member
V Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 987
I'm being harsh because I think it's warranted. Just FYI.

RM, when you first posted, I had you pegged as a proselytizing troll. Then you actually came back a number of times. So maybe you aren't a troll - maybe you want to work on things.

However. You have some serious heavy hitters here (e.g., smb) trying to help you out, and you have answered a mere handful (and that's being generous) of posts from them. And what you have answered has been cursory, at best.

But fullmoon jumps in here, and all of a sudden we are headed down Affairland Fantasy Lane!

DITCH THE FANTASY.

You know what your A was?

It was disgusting.

It was never anything beautiful and romantic and happily ever after.

It was rutting like pigs.

No other way you dress it up will ever change that fact.

The sooner you come to realize that, and call it for what it is - ALL THE TIME - the sooner you can start trying to repair what you've done.

Adultery is one of the most sick, twisted, vile things you can do - and congratulations, you not only did it to yourself, but you did it to how many innocent victims? Your BS, kids, parents, close friends...anybody who used to know you, who used to think well of you and trust you, who used to value what you stood for.

Again, the sooner you face reality, the sooner you can start the real heavy lifting of recovery - personal and hopefully marital. None of this is easy, but you stand no chance if you continue dwelling on the fantasy.


Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 112
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 112
Vanilla,

I was not trying to minimize her actions...but "tough love" is not the ONLY kind of love you can give someone. There are plenty of "heavy HITTERS" here such as yourself...so I'll leave the 2x4 battering duty to you. I think she GETS IT...that this is BS...and so is your outburst, by the way.

Maybe you should get real, too, huh? Give her a chance to "redeem" herself?

I've lived with adultery in my life...I've seen it effect people I love dearly (including my d*mned self.) But I never treated those people this harsh way. She's a troll?! You know, those people were just...people. Imperfect, hurtful, selfish. People! Isn't there something in the Bible, too, about he who is without sin casting the first stone? Good grief. Go take a Valium.


Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 987
V
Member
Member
V Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 987
Dude. I feel like I'm getting called out. "Hey, yo, Vanilla!" crazy

I think you may misunderstand my post, fullmoon.

Or was there something in there that I wasn't clear on?

Maybe you think I made some false statements?

Caustic remarks aside: You seem to have taken that post quite personally. Why? And, as I think you may find if you ask any FWS here, it's the 2x4's and the posts that get under our skin that often wake us up the most.



Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 987
V
Member
Member
V Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 987
One other thing:

fullmoon, it's not "love" if it's enabling RM to remain in her fog-addled state.

Letting a WS wallow in affairland fantasy - and make no mistake, that's what all this commiseration is about - will guarantee RM has no chance to really redeem herself.


Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 799
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 799
Hey, yo, Vanillia!

Originally Posted by Mrs_Vanilla
One other thing:

fullmoon, it's not "love" if it's enabling RM to remain in her fog-addled state.

Letting a WS wallow in affairland fantasy - and make no mistake, that's what all this commiseration is about - will guarantee RM has no chance to really redeem herself.

I could not agree more. Marriages do not recover until the fog is gone. Only then can the real honest work begin.


BW-me-56
FWH-GreenMile-62
Married 1982
2 wonderful grown sons

D Day #1 4/1985
D Day #2 10/03/08
D Days continued for a while.

Started real recovery 07/15/10
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240
Fullmoon,(some of it for Redeem_me too, since you will be reading and I believe some of this may be of help to you too) sitting here reading how you understand RM's pain, how you "know" what she is going through and dismissing what other people have said to RM, is making me cringe.

Oh, I agree that you feel pain. I also understand that you had a hand in creating that pain for yourself. It's like when I am at work, and I see a young person(early 20's) come to work on a Sunday morning "complaining" about being hung over. I understand how they are feeling, I have been there, albeit a REALLY long time ago. I laugh at them. I make loud noises to cause them more pain and I tell them how stupid they look. Then I ask, "You gonna do this again?" Of course, at that moment they say, "NOOOOOOOO." Hold their head at their own voice and take some aspirin.

Why did I laugh at them? Why did I make loud noises? I did it to inflict maximum suffering so they won't do it again. I am "helping" them by shaming them and hitting them with 2x4's. Hopefully, one day, they will learn their lesson and NOT repeat the mistakes of the past.

So what do you think happens in AA? in rehab? Do the people there hold the addict's hand and say, "Oh there there, I know you're suffering. I remember when I got high. It felt so good, but it was so wrong. I remember the feelings it gave me. I know it hurt people, but *I* was hurting too. I hurt WORSE than the people who love me and were watching me in pain. I understand."

Don't you think that the more effective way to "help" an addict is to tell them that what they did was WRONG? That it hurt a lot of people? That the pain they are feeling WILL go away, IF they choose to abide my a certain plan to get sober and "redeem" themselves by making amends to their victims, including themselves. As long as someone has romanticized the times when they got "high" and feel sorry for themselves MORE than anyone else, they won't get better. They won't "feel" better. This is what the vet posters here are offering you. A way to get out of the pain you feel.

I think it would be dangerous for two people, who are addicts themselves, trying to learn their way out of the "fog" of addiction to communicate offboard until they have recovered. The choice is yours still though, as it is my very humble opinion.

Why don't you let the great vets on here help you with a hand UP out of the mess you have created? Listen and understand that what they are doing isn't meant to cause you MORE pain, but instead to help relieve you of the pain(eventually).


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 112
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 112
Scotland, Okay, maybe my writing is a bit "flowery" *lol*...but I don't see where I am hurting her simply because I can relate. I didn't tell her to contact OM. I didn't tell her that OM is unequivocally the love of her life. I just didn't call her names and tell her something ("She's wrong") that she already knows. She knows she's wrong; that's why she's here.

What she is not is a proselytizing troll who deserves to *bleep* [Fill in the *bleep* with whatever sounds horrid].

In AA, I hear there is a 12 step program. I hear that they allow you to get up and tell your story (without throwing rotten tomatoes in your face.) I don't think after you finish your story, the moderator turns around and says, "That's nice, thanks for telling that *bleep*. Don't ever say it again because you were a dellusional idiot and you deserve all the pain you get. Now sit down." I think people earn chips for their progress. They celebrate a month, 6 months, a year. Right? I've never been to AA, though.

But Scotland, I respect your opinion. You have always presented yourself sensibly...and you're probably right that we (Redeem and I) should not communicate outside of the boards. There is no one there to keep us strictly on track.

Hey yo, Vanilla! Of course, I took issue with your presentation. Now what if I start what I'm saying like this: "I'm just going to be a B-- because I'm on this website where that sort of behavior is not only condoned but lauded." Well, anything I say after that point is probably not going to be well-received by my audience. ...the rutting like pigs thing...come on.

I think my issue is that in trying to help with these uncompromisingly harsh (some ridiculous) "2x4s", you are running off some people who are genuinely trying to change themselves. There was a young guy here recently (I forgot his name) who *really* seemed like he was pleading for help...and you all threw it back in his face. I hadn't seen him return. That's unfortunate. I had to take a break myself because I was concerned that I was "confusing" you. My feelings may have been inappropriate but they are real, nonetheless. I am dealing with correcting that.

And, thank you, vets...for the sensible, practical, action-oriented advice that you have been able to offer. No thanks for the name-calling.

Redeem, Sapphire seems to know what she's talking about from a WW perspective. You might want to check out her posts...


Page 6 of 13 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 12 13

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 526 guests, and 70 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Benjamin Roberts, Armenia, ameliamartin, Nicholas Jason, daisyden878
72,001 Registered Users
Latest Posts
Spying husband arrested
by coooper - 06/24/25 09:19 AM
My wife wants a separation
by Benjamin Roberts - 06/24/25 01:54 AM
Annulment reconsideration help
by Oren Velasquez - 06/16/25 08:26 PM
Roller Coaster Ride
by happyheart - 06/10/25 04:10 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,623
Posts2,323,511
Members72,002
Most Online3,224
May 9th, 2025
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 2025, Marriage Builders, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0