You're so right! We should be open books to our spouses with no secrets.

Congratulations to you for six happy years in recovery! I so agree...my WS knows (looking forward to calling him my DS) if he ever strays again, it's over.

Thank you again! If you have any other advice for me as I am doing Plan A right now, I would love to hear it! You know so much more than I do.

I was gone quite a bit of today, and won't be around much tomorrow till later (first church, then potluck, then a memorial service, then leading out in a church service at the nursing home - whew!), so I wanted to pop in for a moment tonight.

I would still (and always) do periodic checks if I needed to. The main reason I don't is because AJ already has me log on to both his personal and work emails a zillion times a day to do stuff for him while he's at work, and I'm always with him in the evenings.

Since we enjoy being around each other, the close contact is a delight and not a burden. I actually am much closer and have more knowledge of his minute-by-minute day than I did back when he accused me of being his parole officer, lol, but it's now a part of intimacy instead of leading to resentment. (Oddly enough, most of the resentment had to do with my watchfulness making it much harder for him to carry on the resumption of the A. My bad! )

Just keep watch on your hubby. If he ever does slip up, you'll catch him before long. You can't totally rely on the OW to hold up her end of the bargain, however it's very good that she has a strong pull (BF/baby) away from your WH. So often the FR's and just plain bunny boilers involve an OP with no pull any direction but toward their adultery partner.

You have been able to see such quick results in how powerful a weapon exposure is against A's. Not all are interrupted or completely eliminated, but it always sends a huge shock wave through LaLaLand. And as hard as it must be to be out of work while your WH is unemployed due to his A, that harsh consequence probably made a bigger impact than anything you could have said to him.

And when the OW found out that her BF and family knew that she had sunk to homewrecking, she quickly reconsidered. Even if she had kept on, most of the fun would have gone out of it. The whole barfy soulmates fun secret time has a hard time standing up against the disapproval and censure of family and friends.

That's today's little lecture on exposure.

Regarding your Plan A, good for getting some date time. Don't panic if he won't cooperate with the 15+ hr recommendation right at first. Though he won't fall totally back in love with you till you're close to that threshold, even a few hours of the week where you're meeting his needs and being fun to be with, are enough to make him want more time with you.

That's what you want to aim for now, that each week he will want to be around you just a little longer than the week before. You'll get to the in-love stage soon enough if you continue to progress.

What things did he used to like to do with you? What things did you enjoy doing together shortly pre-A? Try a few. If you feel like something helped, try it again. If it didn't help, either move on to something else, or mentally file it to try again later.

If he won't fill out the EN questionnaire, fill out the 1-10 ranking yourself, guessing at his answers. You'll be pretty close, and it will give you a starting point. A little experimentation, and you will likely have his needs pretty well figured out.

Thanks Neak! I am really ready for us to get the passion & the love back that we had!!! I mean really!!! Looking at pictures & reading the letter he wrote to me on the night he proposed gives me hope we can get it back.

Things we did together, mainly were hanging out together. We didn't really care what we did as long as we were together. We were in college together from '99-'02 so that made each day fun. We went on bike rides, went to the races, picnics, etc. Low key yet fun for us.

I know it's only been a month, I want my husband back from before any of this started! He had multiple A's & if we don't get help he won't stop! I started reading, along with SAA, Everyman's Battle. He is reading it with me...I just started it yesterday. I pray this will light a fire in him to come back to God & to seek sexual purity with me!!!

I hate that he has thought & probably told the OW (just this last one, not the other two) all the things he used to tell me. That she is the one who allows him to be himself, how much he loves her, how he dreams of being with her in his future. All of this he has told me for years...I don't doubt that he told her this too. I hate that he might still miss her!!! And that it might take longer for him to be over her...what if he never does get over her?

Oh today my heart aches for the love we built 11 years ago. For my husband to come out of this fog & come back to me with love & passion & fire in his eyes. I want to have the same for him! Some days are too hard for me to think about him kissing someone else, giving or receiving oral sex with someone else, having sex with someone else.

Thank you for your advice. This is a long hard road & there are no short cuts as I've seen on here. One day at a time, one moment at a time, one longer lingering look/gaze into my eyes at a time, one hand holding at a time, one I love you at a time.

Hugs!

Also, do all of the WS's out there think that this OP is their soul mate? That they were never really happy with life before them? That the OP is the only one who can make them happy?

If so & the A doesn't die a natural death at the 6 month mark & has been ended before that where these feelings are still there...how does the WS get over that? Or do they never get over it?

Not all, but many. AJ didn't think OW was his souldmate, and couldn't really visualize him being with her long-term, but couldn't visualize himself broken up from her, either. Many WS's do think they've found their soulmate. It doesn't seem to matter in the long run when you talk about recovery. The alleged soulmates recover just as well as the non-soulmates.

If the A is interrupted before its natural death, more of the pleasant (not good!) feelings remain. It takes time for them to get over those feelings. Even once the feelings are gone, it is possible to rekindle them, and thus the importance of NC for life.

Thanks Neak! His last writings show that he is seeing a mean side to her. All the lies she is telling everyone, all the mean things she says about him in either texts he read to me from her back in June after she was exposed on her side or the mean things she has told me via e-mail about him that I have repeated to him.

I agree with the NC for life!!!!!! We have now gone on two dates in the last two weeks with having movie dates at home after the little one is in bed. We are starting to enjoy each others company again, slowly. We are also planning a trip to Marine World...just the two of us for the day.

As Dr. Harley said in his book, we need to do things we did when we were dating to fall in love with each other again. My WS is willing to do anything I bring up, he may not really want to do them with me right now, yet he said that he is willing to do them to become closer with me. That tells me that he still has some feelings for the OP (yuck)because as you said it was ended before the natural death. It was ended right at the height of it all, right after they started sleeping with each other & started saying ILY to each other (makes me want to vomit!)

So another question I have is for my end. How can I stop the sickening feelings I get when a memory hits me of how he dropped me & our daughter off at our friends house for a BBQ on May 31st...we were all invited to & he lied about having an interview to meet up with the OP & probably slept with her for the 1st time?

Or when I remember how I begged him to stay after he confessed on June 1st to everything. I told him if he leaves I'm afraid he won't come back & he said "if I don't leave I'm afraid I won't come back." Which was a complete lie because as soon as he was out the door & I'm a wreck left by myself...he calls the OP to meet him at a hotel. That he did this the 2nd, snuck from my parents trailer he was staying to a hotel on the 3rd, & snuck another night to her apt during that same 1st week of June. All the while I'm left in pieces to take care of our daughter.

How do I get rid of the gut wrenching feelings? I'm sure over time & the longer we are in recovery they will fade...is there anything else I can do to help me not want to rip his face off?

Ah yes, the old "How can I miss you if I'm not gone?"

It takes time, and lots of it, to stop the mental pictures and sick feelings. It will go faster if you recognize them as soon as they come, and redirect your thoughts onto good things,

I am so happy to hear the progress you're making. Do be cautious of talking too much negatively about the OW (not saying you are), even the truth, unless he brings it up. It's good that he sees what she was doing, but if you keep bringing it up yourself, his instinct will still be to defend her. Yeah, ick, so don't even go there.

Great job!

Thanks again! The last time I brought it up was toward the end of June when I was just frustrated of the "I miss her" look on his face!!!!! I let him know what the OW & her friend have told me about him, I then ended that with "Who they are describing isn't my husband. I know you are not the creepy guy they are saying you are. That is not the man I married & I know it isn't who you have turned into." So I was able to turn the negative things that were being told to me into me defending him...LOL! Thankfully he hasn't had that look since then ;-)

Other than that, I only bring up any of the OW's if I have a question about the A's. Then I do leave it & change the subject before I get too sad or upset & do or say something stupid.

I am hoping in time, that with him falling back in love with me he will realize that this last A & the other A's were big fat mistakes!!! That they weren't what he thought they were & any feeling of love for the last OW goes away forever! In the beginning of June he was thinking of her as he thinks of his ex-girlfriends...that he will always love her & he will never forget her & he will never regret cheating with her...that he will only regret loosing her. Major ick!!! I hope those thoughts change!!!! I need those thoughts to change!!!

I'm quickly loosing hope for my M. My WH tells me that if we stay together he will probably cheat on me again. That if he leaves & finds someone else...he won't cheat on them because they are new & a different life.

How should I take that? It's only been 1 1/2 to 2 months since this whole thing came to a head...feeling quite lost right now.

babble babble babble.

My wife said the same thing, "Im afraid that we will just go back to the way we were, and I will cheat again."

I replied "I'm afraid that that will happen too, isn't that great!?" I meant that both of us having the same fear will prevent it from happening again. I was kinda right.

I assume that NC is being held?

I also saw that you have had 2 dates in the last 2 weeks from a post today, and you say that he is willing to try anything. Are you two spending over 20+ hours of UA time together?

Are you POJA'ing everything you do together, all 20+ hours?

Have you two done the EN questionaire, and the recreation questionaire?

If not, then I suggest you do these things so you don't feel so lost, and hopefully you two feel real changes happening.

Where is the EN questionaire on the site?

Under questionnairs at the top of each page.

Here is a quick link to it. Check out other questionnaires.
EN Questionnaire

I hope it's all babble! I'm happy you were right, there is hope in that then because I feel the same way.

Yes NC is still being held, except that on his way to work yesterday (1st day at his new job) he drove by his old work place to see if her car was there (the place the A started & where he got fired from because he was having A's with her & another employee of his on company time & property). Her car was there & then on his lunch break he wrote in his journal (that I have been reading without him knowing or I thought he didn't know) he wrote about how much he still loves her & how he says it to himself so much that he hopes she will hear it where ever she is. Barf! And a bunch of other barfy things about her & him.

I am trying to get 20+ hours a week of UA in, he isn't interested in it. So we spend most of our time watching movies, tv, talking here & there, etc. Nothing like when we were dating which is what I am trying to establish with him. He seems to be still so fogged & so much in withdrawls of this A that he can't see straight. I am trying to get him to call me or answer my calls while he is at work, it's a new job so I don't want to get him into trouble for that. He called once on his lunch break after writing in his journal, talked to me for 6 mins.

I'm not sure what POJA'ing is...I'm in chapter 8 of SAA & I think it's the steps Dr. Harley has couples to do A proof their marriage. If it is then yes, I am being loving, open, honest, & doing my best to full fill his needs. I am in full blown Plan A.

We have not done the EN questionnaire yet. I have brought it up to him yet I get zero interest in it. We are reading Everyman's Battle & he is just reading it~not soaking anything in. He told me last night that he doesn't want to get back to where we were before any of the A's happened. That he doesn't think our M could ever be better than it was before the 1st A. I do believe this. He calls himself the eternal pessimist & me the eternal optimist.

He was so arrogant & cruel last night, saying very selfish & hurtful things. How he doesn't know what he wants, that he needs to loose everything to hit rock bottom, that he doesn't think he wants to be married to me anymore. Ugh. We have always had such an amazing relationship...best of friends...always happy...great SF...that is why I had no clue that he had any of the A's until he confessed on 6/1/10. I was blindsided as you probably were too.

He said that he is willing to try anything like lunch dates, bike rides, etc. Yet when I ask him if he wants to do these things with me he only repeats "I'm willing to do these things. That is all I can say to you now." So to me that means no, I would rather do these things with the OW yet since my chance is lost with her I can't.

He has no interest in being romantic with me, looking into my eyes, saying nice things. I am doing my best to so & say all the things for him though.

I love this site & all the advice I can get! Even if I need to be shaken out of my pity party on a day like today. I feel like I am doing all the work & he is just reaping the benefits of it. Because he was fired in the beginning of May & we couldn't get EDD due to why he was fired we have used most of our savings. I have been a stay-at-home mom since 2006 & I do not have an income right now. So Plan B is off in the distance to establish income from myself & get $$ back into our savings. That is only if he doesn't change & start coming towards me.

It seemed that he was making baby steps towards me in the past 2 1/2 weeks...holding my hand at church & when we go to bed...initiating SF...being happier. When I commented on that as a compliment last night he said he hasn't changed anything he has been doing & that he was only happier because he got a job & is not out of the house.

Mind you, we don't fight. We really only have a few arguments a year. Our 18 year old son doesn't know anything is going on because there really isn't much stress in our home when he is around. Or even when he isn't around. He knew in the beginning of June that we were having problems & that we went to see a few counselors. Since my WH doesn't want to see a counselor right now & that all it would be is babble in his ear, we haven't gone back.

How long did it take your WS to get out of the fog & make progress towards you? What were some things you did to help her along?

Thanks!

Oh, and another thing he said last night is that he has absolutely no regrets in his life or what he has done. That everything he has done has gotten him to where he is now. I asked if he regrets cheating on me, he said no, he regrets nothing.

In his journal he also wrote that he doesn't regret the cheating, he regrets loosing the OP.

Am I fighting a loosing battle here or am I fighting an alien that will bring back my husband pre-WS sometime soon?

Sadly I can identify with you on the WS withdrawl. On my FWW first affair she had bad withdrawl. Without MB after the affair I tried my best to Plan A her. It was really hard to meet her needs, and she rarely did stuff with me. When she would do something with me she would drag herself through it all. I often found myself ask, "What did he do for you so I can do it too." She came out of it by talking to someone about her problems, and her break up with the OM1. Unfourtunatley that someone was not me and she piggybacked into another affair.

It was after the second affair that my FWW decided for herself to work on the marriage. It only took her a month or so to come out of the fog, and this was with her trying her best. She did everything to keep her mind of the OM and did not have withdrawl for OM2. I let her know that she is an exception to many of the WS that we see on here.

I tried to take things slow, but it was my FWW that read some spiritual guidance books, and read Proper Feeding and Caring of a Husband. I introduced her to a few MB concepts when I saw the opportunity, read HNHN together, and later I showed her this site. She has been on fire ever since. It was her that had this epiphany that she needed to do something.

When I read about withdrawl like your husbands I imagine someone stuck in tar or quicksand. You throw them a rope, but they ignore it and let themselves get sucked down slowly in their own dispair. I don't understand why he wants to wallow in this crap he made himself, he just does. His constant thoughts on the OW are not helping either.

His withdrawl is a problem and you can't build a loving marriage while he is in withdrawl. You can try to talk to him about it using the concepts in this article When should you tell your spouse "We have a proble"?. Otherwise you have to keep doing what you are doing, only he can change his attitude, and you can gently persuade him on how to do it. If he is anything like my wife, he is seeking a sympathetic shoulder to cry on about his "break up" like some high school crush that he was forced to abandon. Its so disgusting, but he might need you to be his shoulder to cry on. However, I don't think any BS should be that shoulder.

You might want to set up IC for him with a male counselor, let him know you care. Thats what I think I should have done in hindsight. I listened to my WW who insisted each month to give her one more month to get over it, and it didn't help at all.

Thanks for your input & your story! My WH has gone to see a male counselor about three weeks or so ago & said he isn't ready to go back. The counselor wants him to become spiritual again & get right with God to help work on himself. Then we can start couples counseling.

It is so disgusting & he at times is acting like a HS kid when he's 34. I'll look at the article, thank you! His journal is sick & I hope & pray that when he is out of this fog he will burn it!!!

He doesn't think he's in a fog. He thinks that he is right & I am wrong & that he doesn't want to be in our M anymore & that it would be best for him to be on his own. Living his own life, not living on a budget, not having a list of chores to do around the house, not saving money, not wanting to buy a house (we rent one right now), wanting to curse whenever he wishes to...a list of selfish demands he has written down along with his love for the OW...she really is a girl being only 22 years old. Makes me want to vomit.

Again, thank you!

so he accompanies you to Church, holds your hand...probably prays with the congregation and then acts like a selfish hypocrite when he gets home...yeah, Christ called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and your hubby's no different...in case he didn't know or is asleep during Church, Adultery is a SIN in the eyes of a just God...until he is convicted of his sin and repents, there's no hope...

and honestly, until he genuinely repents and puts forth the effort to work on the relationship...cut him off from the SF...bibically it's your right...

Thanks mr_anderson! I agree with you about him & being just like the Pharisees...totally!!! He pays attention to the pastor & seems moved at times, while we pray he usually looks around or picks at his fingers, while singing he just stares straight ahead...while holding my hand.

I finally told him last night for the 1st time that what he has done is sin straight from the devil himself. I also told him that he needs to get right with God & repent & be remorseful about the A's. His response was shallow at best...it was "here's my thing, if I get right with God, I'll always second guess it & myself. It won't stop me from cheating again because I will always be tempted." I told him that God gave us tools to use to combat satan & temptation, to put the word of God into his heart & then when he feels like he's being tempted to recite those verses, God will take away the temptation because he will be submitting to God & obeying His word.

I just wish he was more like some of the other WS on here...they at least seem to be remorseful for the pain they have caused & the sin that they did. He is seeming to be rebellious, arrogant, & cruel. It's breaking my heart today.

I really do appreciate your advice! God tells us not to allow our spouses to bring us down to their level of sin if they won't change to follow God.

so he's "tempted"...we'll welcome to Christianity, we're we that call ourselves Christians are tempted from the time we open our eyes to the time we close them...I'm an Orthodox Christian and the Church and Desert Fathers write a lot about temptation and how to safeguard your mind...but we're in the real world and not Monks...but still we can gain a lot from them...it's one thing to be tempted (we can't stop that) and another to entertain the thought and then to finally act on it.

the vows your husband swore to you before God and both your families and friends are very real...he should take them very serious...

your husband is like a drug addict with his adultery...sometimes we have to turn them over to the devil and hope they can come back...work the MB's program and let the light of Christ shine forth...he can change his ways...if not biblically you can divorce him and move on with your life...

my father was an alcoholic for 22 years and my mother and us kids endured a lot...i would beg my mom to leave my dad (it was that bad), but she stayed the course...and now he's a Christian and a deacon...

my prayers are with you...

Thank you. I fully agree with you here! We are members at Lakeside Church here & I just love it! He used to love it, not sure these past two months.

Yes God allows divorce under adultery & incest...I don't want it to come to that yet if he doesn't change it will have to. I would love for my WH to come back to God & really become a Christian! He was a new believer in 2000 & was baptized in 2001 through Lakeside. I don't want to be hurt anymore by him. The things he said last night were horrible to me. He has defiled our marriage bed & our vows. I hold them very dear & sacred. I tell him that & I tell him that he needs to do the same.

I'm sorry about your dad & his addiction, so happy to hear where he is now!

Thank you for your prayers! They are welcome & very much needed!