Up until now I did not know where I belonged on this site. Now I know. My husband of 30 years advised me Jan 2010 he loved me but was not in love with me. He'd been spending upteen hours at a karate dojo each week. He'd developed an infatuation towards a married woman with young children whom was a member he worked out with. He claimed he had not told her of his feelings towards her. He was upset with himself and did not know what to do.

Of course I was devistated. I begged my husband to work on the marriage. We'd already started M counseling by then and had gone to a couple sessions. But after this revelation I came to MB and called Steve H. (Quit the MC) A short period later we both talked to Steve and a couple weeks later attended a MB weekend.

Thus we began the lessons and started UA time and especially began working on recreational companionship. But not long after the weekend I asked my husband to quit the dojo he'd been attending with this woman. It killed me more then ever knowing he was working out side by side with this woman he had feeling for. Steve talks about the contrast effect. This is what was going on. We could not gain any traction no matter what I did while he continued attending this dojo.

This was very difficult for my husband to do. You could say he was addicted to the whole experience with this form of exercise and the company. He had formed a second life with the entire organization membership like it had become his real family and his own family had become cast offs. He explained to his dojo owner (sensei) he needed to take time off to work on his marriage.

It was not easy but I have become very active along side my husband. I've become more conditioned which is something my husband wanted too. I've been wearing my make up like he likes. I've been affectionate towards him and readily engage in SF. The point is being the person I understand he wants to be married to.

The trouble is, he's not exactly reciprocating. He finally officially quit the dojo and agreed to not have contact with this woman he'd become infatuated with. We'd even wrote out an official plan or boundaries regarding various aspects of our relationship so we are both each fully aware and on the same page. For example, we have a health and fitness plan and an opposite sex relationship plan. We created this plan after my husband whom had agreed to no contact with this woman had made contact. After that he deleted her from his email and cellphone at my request.

Since we made this plan and then he officially quit this dojo which included returning the key and telling the sensei he was not returning, (This created a big controvesy at this dojo) I was pretty excited as I thought finally--we're on our way!

But in so many ways my husband remains half baked. He's not that committed to meeting the 15 hours for one thing. His philosophy is to get in what we can and be OK with that. There are many distractions for multiple reasons. After a recent vacation of these half baked ways, I visited my doctor and he put me on an anti-depressent. I'd become very anxious. I already have a chronic pain condition. While on vacation the pain had ramped up and the level of anxiety I felt had scared me.

My husband was anxious to be part of a dojo and return to karate. I agreed to attend a new dojo with him. We've been attending for about 3 weeks now. I've been doing pretty good and we've been practicing together at home. Of course I wanted this to bring us closer together, another new RA.

Still, my husband has been holding back. Its been hard to hold conversations with him as often he's none responsive. He's basically not been committed to meeting my emotional needs. About one month ago Dr Harley assigned us the honesty and openness lesson. My husband said this would be the hardest lesson for him. He has a lot of difficult sharing his thoughts and feelings.

This past weekend we filled out the Dishonestly Inventory from the Lovebuster book. This is part of the H&O lesson if there is a problem with dishonesty in the relationship. My husband filled this out very criptically and left many parts blank. Ironic. This left me confused. So last night we sat down to talk about this. My husband said he'd been worried about going over this, he didn't feel ready.

He still feels infatuated with this woman. He beleives his feeling mean there is a basic flaw in our marriage relationship as we'd been having problems before he developed these feelings!

I told him we each share 50/50 the emotional disconnect in our relationship. His decision to continue to invest in the relationship with this woman as a married man is solely his responsibility. Its his responsibility to stop thinking of her or making any kind of contact. He admitted to writing to her two weeks ago to wish her luck going for a karate promotion (where they challenge themselves for an advanced belt.) I asked him why did he not tell me about this as we'd agreed in our plan. He said he didn't know. I told him how hurtful his behavior is to me. I asked him what he wants. He said he wants us to both be happy. I asked: what does that mean? 100% committment to the marriage and fully invest in the MB program? Lying and cheating? or Divorce? He wants to work on the marriage and see what happens. Translation from me: Half baked effort to prove it isn't going to work to rationalize an out and not have to take responsibilty for infidelity--- if you want to call it that or infatuation. And also continue with fantasy world. Cake eating. He asked what I want. I said I want to eventually forgive him. And I want full transparency. Meaning I want to be able to track his computer, phone, etc. Then I got up and went to bed.

I need a plan or help to figure out how to set up a means to monitor. And because this woman supposedly does not know how he feels, does one expose this infatuation? Would it help to write to this woman my husband is infatuated with and ask her not to respnd or contact my husband? Do I tell this old dojo to stop sending auto emails to my husband keeping him informed or in the loop?

I would ask Steve Harley since you are counseling with him about exposing an one sided EA. It could backfire on you. Are you sure there has been no other contact? Does she have facebook or something else he can be checking up on her?

If you have attended the MB weekend, you also have direct access to Dr Harley on the private forum. You should USE this resource and put your questions to him!

Have you already asked Dr Harley? Have you discussed the issue with your coach?

Yes, I've talked w/Sandy this AM and she will be discussing later w/Dr Harley. So far, Sandy has suggested I talk w/husband about his strategy to eliminate dishonesty. We want to find out if my husband really wants to recover our marriage.

email I sent to my husband this AM:

Dear____

I love you. I want more then anything to recover our marriage. It is possible to rekindle romantic love towards a partner. Dr Harley has created a strategy to make this happen. This plan has to be followed as set. I want to work together to follow this plan as set to recover our marriage. I want to increase your love bank to meet the threshold for romantic love. I want you to work towards meeting my threshold towards romantic love. There is nothing inherently wrong in our relationship (as you seem to believe) that this rekindling of passionate love cannot happen between us. I've experienced it multiple times in the past with you. This fog you are living in and can't see through is blocking your view of our past. As I've said, we are each 50/50 responsible for the emotional disconnects in our relationship now, in the past and into the future. We have been very naive and ignorant as far as what a marriage committment really is and can be--- as in extraordinary care towards one another. We'd both agreed this is our goal after the MB weekend. But like I said, I'm not responsible for your confusion, your pushing way past the bounderies in our marriage, your dishonesty and your developing this one-sided emotional affair. Telling yourself any mishap, especially one I am not even present, is due to a problem between us--- is so-called "affair fog." Anyone can develop strong feelings toward someone they find attractive and sustain these feelings if you choose. And isn't it a miracle out of 6 billion people in this world that your so-called soulmate shows up at a thea dojo you happen to be attending? This relationship fantasy is a malignancy that sits growing in the middle of our recovery attempts. You are responsible for excising it to allow for our full recovery. I'm not going to do anything to enable you to continue this fantacy. We can't simply "try" the MB plan and see what happens while you continue to try on this fantasy. Neither means of "trying" is good enough and are devisive. Its like trying on an old comfortable worn pair of jeans to see how they still fit and then trying on a new pair of unwashed jeans to see how they compare. Its a game of compare and contrast. Compare and contrast is not about recovery. Compare and contrast is about making excuses and justifying a wrong to make it seem right. I entered the MB program and most recently joined this new dojo to recover our marriage. I share work in the office and a business relationship, provide domestic support, various aspects of emotional support, and family responsibilites to support us and our family. I did not enter the program to dally and deceive yours and my emotions. I'm not going to be able to sustain going full bore and live to meet your emotional needs while you are luke warm towards me and my needs. I would not be authentic nor honest to myself or you to do so.

I'd like to continue the H& O lesson we began. I want to go forward and review our strategies to eliminate dishonestly from our relationship. I realize this probably sounds harsh, but I believe it is the most loving thing I could say to you right now.

Your wife & lover,

Grace,

I am so sorry.

Your situation sounds a little like my H. He would not commit to openess and honesty for many, many months. Then he also broke NC with the OW, emailed her and spoke on the phone. It was very hurtful.

My H is so different now and our marriage seems to be getting better.

You have great resources with MB coach and Dr. Harley. I hope they have some helpful strategies for you.

AM

G2B,

He'd developed an infatuation towards a married woman with young children whom was a member he worked out with. He claimed he had not told her of his feelings towards her.

Wow sounds like the 85 year old guy who was having a one-sided EA with my wife about 2+ years ago. Problem is I don�t know exactly how one-sided it was, and at that time I was about to go berserk, so please remind your husband that he is affecting many more people than he understands, and the humiliation of losing out to an older man will push a younger man to violence.

Gamma

Gamma,
I don't mean to be laughing at your expense but your post gave me a little chuckle! I needed that.

AM,
Your kind reply lifted me up and gives me hope to keep going. Thank you.

Couldn't you get your WH to change his email addy so he wouldn't get these emails from his old dojo? I KNOW that won't stop him from contacting her.

On an exposure note, instead of telling her, which COULD backfire, what do people think about telling her husband? It MAY get your WH to back off. Just throwing it out there. Since you have the benefit of having the direct link to The MB team, I would leave it up to the professionals.

Good luck

Scotland,
I appreciate your response and idea. Yes, I'm waiting on Dr Harley to respond. I'm also waiting for my husbands response to the email I sent yesterday. He says we will talk about it this evening. I assume I'll hear from Dr Harley today. Thanks for the support.

G2b,

Gamma,I don't mean to be laughing at your expense but your post gave me a little chuckle! I needed that.

Well, this is a full service website, and what is funnier than a befuddled old man with prostate problems trying to hook up with a young girl, can you say deluded?

God Bless
Gamma

Today my husband sent an email saying he owed me a response to my email yesterday and we would talk tonight. A short time later
I got a call from someone whom said they were a "hitman" and my husband had contacted him via the internet. I made an appointment with him for this Friday. I wrote my husband back and said I'd hoped he was trying to get rid of our roof rats?!!!

"hitman" is the name of a pest control company my husband contacted without telling me he was going to do so!

Grace,

Have you thought about your boundry if H does not commit to working the MB program? or to being open and honest? It sounds as if you are looking for that 100% committment. Did H deliver that or something less?

It took me a long time to get there, but when my H contacted OW last fall, I had had enough of half-hearted efforts. I made an appointment with an attorney, wrote a plan b type of letter with a list of criteria if he chose to come, and told H I never wanted to see him again. We went to MB weekend in Jan. Some more trickle truth came out the first week we were home. Since then, things have been measurably better.



AM

AM,
Thank you very much! You advise is on target with my current outlook. I'm under distress today and trying hard to function. You see the above email I wrote to my husband as of yesterday. He has written me today he owes me a reponse and says we can talk this evening.

But yes, I'm looking for him to become 100% on board w/MB and discontinue half-hearted efforts and NC and no more deciet. Change of habits and independent behavior life style. Can't fall back to status quo where his IB needs alone are met.

Yes, I am thinking I may be advised to write such a letter to him. I am preparing or thinking I may have to move out and stop all contact. Its going to be one of the hardest things I will have to do. He's not been taking this too seriously. It may take a hammer. And yes I was even thinking of contacting an attorney. Something I've never doen before.

AM~
A question: Can you elaborate on the plan B letter you wrote? I certainly hope my husband makes the choice to committ to the MB program but I can't be so certain after 6 months since the MB weekend. I guess you and I were at the same weekend!

Grace,

This is the bulk of the letter. My H had a plan for taking a different job and I deleted a paragraph at the end about him doing that without POJA. As a note, I didn't run this letter by anyone on the forum. I am sure other posters could have helped me with content. For us, it seemed to work eventually. After H came home, we went to MC. At about the 6 week point, MC asked how things were going. He said they were going well. I pulled out my letter and we went over what H had done (not much) and what he was supposed to be doing. When we arrived home from MC, H signed us up for the Jan course. (We were sitting on the left side of the middle isle in the second row from the back.) When we returned home, H talked to Sandy for about 45 minutes one day. I have no idea what she said to him, but he has been on board ever since. In fact, during recent months, I have been much more of a road block than H. Every time I start to feel really close, I withdraw some. It is better than it was and I hope it continues to improve

H had been depressed last fall. Hence, the bullets about counseling and anti-depressants. H still attends his monthly PTSD group. He no longed attends IC. We are both on happy pills. I had resisted taking them for 2 years, but started on them in May. I think they help.

I hope your conversation goes well tonight. Also, that Dr. Harley and coach can really give you a good strategy.

AM


November 4, 2009
Dear H,
I do still love you. I am not certain why exactly as certainly, the events of the last 2 years have been very hurtful to me and my love has waxed and waned as we fumbled through the last year. But I do still love you and have a visualization of how really wonderful our life together could be. I recall many, many years of warm feelings and good family times and see a possibility of a future love that is deep and meaningful. I cannot continue in the same manner as we have been for the past 2 years. As I said on the phone earlier, I do not want to be the �back up plan� or the second choice. My desire is to be totally, wholly in love with each other until our lives end.
These are the things I think are necessary for me to revive the love I had for you and visualize our marriage as one that is better than ever and the envy of everyone who lays eyes on us.
1. If you want to return home:
a. Return home as scheduled on the 14th.
b. Commit 100% to the marriage. This would be exhibited by the following: attend an MB weekend. The next one is at the end of Jan. Commit to completing all the assigned tasks at the weekend and for the follow-up counseling associated with the MB weekend. Follow MB all concepts, to include avoiding the love busters (as I have said openness and honesty continues to be the primary principle that has been a roadblock for us; independent behavior is another) as well as striving to meet identified emotional needs; review progress on the periodic schedule set up by the MB coaching staff. These concepts apply to me as well. If you chose to do this, I pledge to commit 100% of my effort to recovery of the marriage.
c. Continue attending the PTSD support group.
d. Add additional counseling to address the addiction issues of viewing porn as well as addiction to your affair partner. Follow the counselor�s recommendation for recovering from an addiction.
e. Pursue a consultation with Primary Care Physician to determine if anti-depressants can assist medically.
f. Continue transparency with my access to phone, computer. I am not certain that these are sufficient because even with these, you planned an exit strategy as well as contacted the other woman from your affair.
g. NEVER contact your affair partner again under any circumstances.
h. Apologize to those who have been hurt. (I believe this to be part of the process to recover from addiction. If this is part of therapy, I do not have a timeline for this to occur. I defer to counselor�s advice.)
i. Prepare a written strategy for dealing with times when you feel bad. This may include telling me (not sure if this would work, since that was our agreement in the past), counselor, or some identified accountability person.

2. If you choose not to accept above, I will proceed with divorce. In this case, I would not speak with or see you ever again. I would ask that you choose an intermediary to help us arrange the practical aspects of dissolution of the marriage. The first people that come to my mind would be your brother or my brother, but I would be open to someone else mutually agreeable.

AM, I thank you with all my heart for sending this heartfelt note to your husband.

How did he respond to this or react emotionally to it?

Grace,

That's hard to know. H's mother had a minor stroke in Oct and H went across the country to stay with her a few days and install safety features in her house. The first day he was away he sent the OW a contact email. I found out about it two days later and sent this letter the next day. I think H was in a great amount of emotional turmoil and depression. In any case, six days later, on Nov 10, he told me he would be heartbroken if he lost his family and that he wanted to come home. He said he did not see any kind of future with OW. Ironically, one of the things he really disliked about her was her lying and her insistance that he lie for her (which he did for an additional 3 months). For a long time, I was not sure exactly why he wanted to come home. Maybe financial reasons, maybe family reasons - I don't think it was because he loved and valued me then. But he does now.

AM

At the MB weekend my husband and I sat in the very front to the left side also. We were the couple that had just been married 30 years and won Dr H's new book and we also won a CD.

I'm so encouraged for you regarding your recovery. I feel strongly the whole holding back and keeping a door open for another relationship to bloom or maintain an independent lifestyle is exactly the thing that keeps us from rekindling romantic love no matter what. It would be so easy to get it all rolling over again if my husband would choose to follow the MB program full bore. In the process of reading the H&O chapter and figuring our our weaknesses with the MMPI, my husband has an issue with #3 and #4 which makes this problem a very difficult one. His personality has issues with authority and honestly and empathy towards others.