Agree

One part of the I do struggle with is point 2, about exposing his affair.
Won't it look like i am bitter as he may be telling people we are not together
anymore? If I say I am trying to fix things they may say there is no point.

Also how do I tell them? By email or phone. His mother never liked me anyway
( one of the m issues) so really don't want to speak to her.

H2007,

One part of the I do struggle with is point 2, about exposing his affair

Exposing his affair means you no longer have to lie by omission about what happened, this will free you as well. Exposing your affair will do likewise.

If your marriage does not work out you will at least be in a position where you can be honest with your next partner.

Also read the BH husband posts to gain insight into how your husband feels, oddly the WW posts were the ones which helped me most to save my marriage and understand my wife.

BHs have no one to talk with about their wives affairs, I think this is one reason WW affairs are so difficult on BHs.

God Bless
Gamma

PS, another reason I mentioned telling OM ex-GF is that if she is pregnant and undergoing mood swings or post-partum depression OM like to swoop in on vulnerabilities.

Hi Hammer, thanks for taking time to read my post.

Yes I have learnt lots already which is good. I am feeling more hopeful about things, then one small thing can set me back.

I was 30 when I married my H. Yes this is my first M. 6 months prior to meeting my H, I was in a 7 year 'faithful' relationship.

It could be about boundaries, but I really have not been single for long and have not had many lovers.

Hitch,

I don't think Plan A is a good idea in this case. I think Plan A acts as a reminder of the good times that existed in the M in the past (with the possibility of improvement when specific negative behaviours are identified and addressed) and how this can be regained if the A is banished. However in this case, you have never had a good marriage. The whole foundations are wrong so Plan A is pointless.

I think you need to describe what a good marriage looks like to you and make a list of all those elements. (There's a lot of good material on this site to help you with that.) Then discuss this with BH/WH and get agreement and committment to work to put those things into your M starting immediately. If you can't get agreement AND committment then I would start divorce proceedings now and move on.

There are no agreed boundaries in this marriage and without them any efforts to work on it are pointless. This is just my opinion.

Bummer, maybe he needed the liquid courage to approach you. Remember when someone drinks the inhibitions are down. Blown opportunity.

Really do you think so? I thought I would have been blasted for that opportunity because he had a few drinks. I am sure there will be another opportunity.

Well, I would have blasted you for it but I may be in a minority. I think having sex with him in this context would be both dangerous and degrading. But then I don't think Plan A would be a good thing here.
Sort out the terms and conditions for your M first.

ThAnks again Tully. Wise words.

Does anyone know a thread by BH so I can understand what my husband is feeling?

Just called H, to see how his golf match is going. We chatted for awhile and then he told me that he is not home tonight as he is going to IOW afterwards for work and won't be back tonight. The his phone signal went bad and he got cut off. I phoned him back twice and he didn't answer.

I sent him a message to call me back and he still didn't. Then I sent him a text message saying;

"Where are you going tonight? If you are seeing another girl I need to know. I will not have you disrespect me or our marriage any longer".

Have I done the wrong thing? I was supposed to be nice to him and get him to speak to Steve Harley.

Upset as well, as he is at golf all day, and then probably not coming home after. So tired of this.

Don't believe he is grown up enough or honest enough to be in a marriage either and makes me wonder what I am fighting for. Feel like packing all his stuff up and leaving outside. Also he may not be lying to me, who knows.

Hitch,

I hear your frustration.


I have 2 problems with this.

1. When you have an important message to communicate, it is essential to do it with a minimum of emotion so that the content of the message is heard rather than allowing the distress/panic/fear to be communicated to the listener and blocking their ears. This is especially true when you are communicating to men.
I know this is hard to do for such an emotional subject as this but somehow you have to find the means to do it. Therefore, sending distressed messages by text is NOT the way to go. You need to calmly sit down with BH/WH and, step-by-step, demonstrate to him that this is not the way to go and the best way forward is to take this other reasonable, sensible path.
Imagine your M is on the edge of a tall building getting ready to jump. The way to behave is not to scream, panic, shout. You need to use a calm voice, coaxing the M down from the edge.

2. My second problem with this is that you are essentially accusing your BH/WH of breaking the rules of the game, when you never agreed to the rules of the game in the first place. This was an 'anything goes' kind of M, so now you can't shout 'foul' when he does something you are not happy with. Sit down and agree to the rules of the game or else decide to not play the game at all.




Being brutally honest with you here, you may be right. But then ask yourself the question, are you?

Hugs.

sh* sh*t sh*t

I am so useless at this. I knew I shouldn't have done that, its a major LB. What am i going to do now when I see him? It is hard when I am a home and he has gone off. What do I do now?

Yes I am grown up enough to be in a marriage. I have asked myself that question many times and have seriously looked at myself as a result of my terrible actions with the A. I will do anything to try and rectify this.

I am so annoyed with myself right now.

(thanks Tully)

Hitch,

I don't mean to lecture you. I'm sorry if it came across like that We all make mistakes, it's how we grow as people. But the important thing is to learn from them and move forward in the right direction.

Maybe you should write down the elements of what constitutes a good M for you. (Read up on this here on this site and on others) If you have some sort of script then it helps you to stay on track and be calm. Try in so far as possible to be concrete e.g. we will always tell each other where we are at all times so that the other one is not worried.
Also specific strategies for conflict resolution so that no violence is ever used.

Your fundamental message should be 'I want to construct a good, loving, respectful, safe M together and this is what I think it looks like. If you want to do this with me then I would be delighted but if you don't then the best thing is to go our separate ways with as much kindness and respect as possible.'
This is not about throwing down ultimatums but about setting firm boundaries.
I know you didn't mean this literally but it's important to be clear about what you will compromise on or not.

Hugs.

Tully I will do that I will have a good look as to what constitues a good marriage, so then I know what boundaries to set.

I am so afraid of sitting down with H to do this as I know what the answer will be. I don't want to hear it again. At the moment I don't think he wants to be in the M at all even less build a good one.

I didnt think you were lecturing me at all by the way x

Just going back through some of the basic M priniciples on this site, making me realise that people were right when we never really had a good M. Lots of Love Busters took place between the 2 of us. So upset right now. Didn't realise what a sham of a M we actually had. My nephew who is 19 had a better r'ship than what we had.

It is our wedding anniversay this weds, and the best thing that could happen is that I can get him to speak to steve.

Still doing lots of reading of the basic concepts. Will post later on what I believe makes a good M, and also where I think I went wrong on the past.

Why coulnd't I have found this site when I got married? I fear that it is too late. So upset.

My friend is getting M is Nov, and I am so tempted to send her a link to this site.

FYI

YOU do not set boundaries for anyone but yourself.
A boundary is your way of protecting yourself from others, OR from your own weaknesses.

Example(s):

1. If my spouse is verbally abusive, I will get away until the verbal abuse stops.
2. I will not have any personal conversations with men.


Personal boundaries require action BY YOU.
Not by others.

Personal boundaries are protective of your safety/sanity, and also protective of your virtue/values/integrity.

If you construct any boundary that presumes to tell someone else how to behave, it is not really a boundary.

Not a boundary:
You will not yell at me.

Is a boundary:
If you yell at me, I will leave.

See the difference?

Yes I do see the difference thank you Pepperband, I have seen your responses to other posts by the way, and was hoping that might look at mine.

Ok, here is the score.

1. I need to set myself some boundaries, that require action by me.
2. I need to get my H to speak to Steve Harley.
3. I need to understand and live by the basic principles which constitute a good and happy marriage.
4. I need to identify possible LB's prior to A and stop them.
5. I need to minimise emotion when comunicating with my H, even when I am under emotional distress (suspecting he may be off with OW). I do have a tendency to be irrational and do things without thinking them through.
6. I need to get my H to open up to the idea of us building a happy M based on MB.
7. Whlst this is all going on, need to act like a happy roomate to my H (Steve Harleys advice).
8. Long term the complete basis of our M needs to change.
9. If we do get back together, I will have to face my MIL who never liked me anyway (she does not have a r'ship with any of her DIL) I am actually quite intimidated by her.
10. On top of all this, I need to put my LOUD ticking biological on the back burner, whilst going through these steps which may or may not be successful! (fertility problems also is a worry as had problems before!).

OK this feels like I am about to climb Kilimanjaro and I am right at the bottom. I think the size of the task has dawned on me.

You people who coach others on this website are something short of amazing. Why do you all do this??

Oh my goodness, major breakthrough.

H just came home from golf, after this mornings rash text to him I just acted normal and happy to see him. H said to me (in response to text I sent him) there is no OW, that previous OW was not my GF. I said to him but we live together and we are still M and you shouldn't be seeing anyone, in a calm way, he said OK.

Then I thought it is now or never. I said to H,

"I am going to ask you something, I want you to keep an open mind. I have been talking to a MC who is experienced in dealing with couples in our situation, I have spoken to him and told him EVERYTHING. He said that he may be able to help us, would you talk to him"

Then H said, I don't know why you are so scared to ask me, yes ofcourse I will if it helps us or you or me or whatever the outcome. H also said something, I don't mind doing it as long as you are totally HONEST. This is obvously a MAJOR emotional need for him.

OH MY GOODNESS!!

Is this a good sign? Worried he maybe doing it to let me down gently.