Don't drive yourself crazy worrying about the micro details of every muscle twitch your H might have.
If worry helped, I'd say GO FOR IT.
But, this sort of worry is neurotic and pointless. It will just wear you down.

If you are in this for the LONG HAUL you're going to need self-soothing skills.
Develop a PLAN, and stay with it.

We always tell noobies, this is not a sprint, it is a marathon.

BREATHE slowly when you feel anxious.
And, go for a lot of walks.

Thanks Pepper - I am guilty of analysing every muscle twitch of my H all the time. Will stop that and start to take care of myself so I have the energy for the long haul.

I have not been eating and recently started smoking which is not good either as it seems to make me more anxious.

I just want to clarify that boundaries are limits we place between what is acceptable and unacceptable to us and that require action if and when they are transgressed.
eg physical violence in my M is unacceptable and if H hits me then I will leave the M and file for D.

This is possibly an extreme example but we need to have boundaries with everyone in our lives and it sounds as if you need to have some with your MIL.
Not sure what the problem is but eg it is not acceptable for MIL to criticise my house-keeping and if she does I will say so to her. ('This is my home and how I spend my spare time is my choice' - it is not making excuses 'Well, I work full-time and it's hard to fit everything in.')

Another point about boundaries is that it's rarely a black or white situation. People take steps towards your boundaries and the earlier you warn them of where your boundaries are, the more calmly and gently you can do it. I am not very good at this but I'm learning. I know reasonably well where my boundaries with most people but I let fly when they are stepped over instead of putting up nice trespassing warning signs in advance.
Taking the physical violence example, it generally happens in stages. So if you encounter verbal violence with H, you need to stand up and say 'I refuse to continue this discussion as long as you speak to me like this' and leave.

Mostly saying firmly and clearly that you are not OK with the transgressive action is sufficient especially if it is done early enough.

For some people, setting boundaries is a natural process and they don't have to think about it too consciously but for many more people it's important to think seriously about where our limits are. Certainly in your M your lack of boundaries indicates a need to think seriously about this.

(PS Hitch, on a totally different point, the best thing you can do for your fertility is to stop smoking. It really doesn't help.)

OM just sent me am email
saying;

hope your ok (I don't expect a reply)

I have ignored it and deleted it

Hi tully

at work so can't really respond toomuch but am going to create a boundary list when I get home. I think I understand where you are coming from but have never been good at this.

MIL is more passive aggressive, very cool and off with me and makes comments behind my back.

Anyway I will give it a go.

Thank you

"OM just sent me am email
saying; hope your ok (I don't expect a reply)
I have ignored it and deleted it"

So what do you want a medal?

Why is OM not blocked on your email?

You need to immediately tell hubby about txt. O&H, remember?

Have blocked OM email, I will tell husband tonight that he emailed me and I ignored it and blocked it. However not sure how H will react as far as he is concerned we are not together at the moment.

Doesn't matter if you're together or not. Your point is to save your marriage. O&H is one of the first steps. I wouldn't wait till tonight. If you wait, it gives your BH a window to wonder. Call him or txt.

Hitch, have you sent an NC letter? I don't think so if I remember well.

If not, then I think what I would have done is replied to his email with an NC email with BH in copy.
Something like:

OM,
I have come to the realisation that having an affair with you and being unfaithful to my husband is the most despicable, selfish thing I have ever done in my life and I hate myself for having done it. I have told my H everything and I hope he will find it in his heart to forgive me and allow me to love him properly in the future. If he does, then I will do everything I can to make my M a good one where we care deeply for each other and where infidelity has no place.
But, regardless of his decision, I want to never hear from or speak to you again. If you do ever contact me again in any form, I will delete and ignore your messages.
Goodbye,
Hitch.

However, maybe some of the vets might chime in and let you know if they think this is a good way to go.

Another point on boundaries. A good way to go about that is to think about when you feel frustrated/ angry/ powerless etc in your relationships with various people and think about what the root causes are how you could deal with these situations in a healthy, respectful way.
eg say MIL says to someone behind your back that she thinks you dress in a tarty manner (just for an example) and you hear about that. I would say to MIL the next time I see her 'MIL, I was talking to X the other day and she told me you admired by new red mini-skirt. If you have a big night coming up, I'll lend it to you anytime.' And give her a big wink. (passive-aggressive people hate when you don't play their game.
The idea of boundaries is not to change their behaviour (although it often does) but to give you better coping strategies so that you feel better about yourself.

You deleted it completely or is it still in your delete folder? Your husband may want to see the e-mail.

After tullys response I thought I might need a copy of it so I could reply to it with the no contact letter. I remembered I sent a copy to my BF who is also suporting me through this process. So I have forwarded a copy from my work to my personal email address.


However now concerned as purposely leaving iPhone around house so it doesn't look like I am being secretive so H may check and find it.

Ok, I have done a lttle bit of work on boundary setting this evening, I actually found it quite hard, but also very therapeutic. It was nice to set boundaries of what I will and won't tolerate. The way some people treat me really upsets me.

Anyway here goes,

1. I will not stay in the the same room as my H if he calls me names.
2. I will not have flirtatious conversations with other men.
3. If another man approaches me in a flirtatious manner I will walk away.
4. If friends/family offer opinions on my M situation, I will thank them for trying to be helpful but I am dealing with this on my own right now and change the conversation.
5. I will not discuss details about my personal life and M with anyone appart from my H (and my BF just whilst she is helping support me through this crisis).
6. If my friend is short tempered and rude to me, I will say if you are rude to me like that I will go home. (I have a friend who is always rude to me, I excused it for years cause her father died and am so fed up of it now).
7. To my H, if you hit and break things I will leave the house and not come back until you apologise and promise never to do it again.
8. To my H, if you family are cold and uninviting when I go to their house, I will not go back again.
9. To my H, if you lose your temper and shout at me, I will not talk to you any further until you have calmed down.

To be honest the one I am struggling to set a boundary for is the MIL. For example,

* she has ignored me before and refused to talk to me, how can I set a boundary around that?
* she called my niece a fat pink fairy?
* anytime I tell her about something, she has a story thats bigger and better
* she told my H when we reconciliated last year she thought he was making a mistake...
* the only thing she said to me on my wedding day was "your one of us now" (not congrats/welcome to family/you look great)
* she eskimo kisses my H right in front of me whe I was sat on H lap(to be honest that one was a bit weird)

* Also Ihave another one, I have a sister who I love dearly but can also be 2 faced, gets under my skin, not sure how i sent a boundary with that one either..

So how am I doing Tully/anyone? Would you mind taking a look??

Thanks, Hitch x

Hitch,

You have a start but I think you don't understand boundaries quite yet.

Let me offer you straw man so that you, I and others can work on it a bit.

Let's say my boundary is that I won't tolerate disrespect of me or my family.

Notice the boundary doesn't have an "or else" attached to it, nor does it have a prescribed action to it. Why?

Ok, let's say I meet someone who just treats people poorly, disrespectful if you will, and he/she does that to me.

I could, just walk away. I could make sure I never deal with them again. I could fire them if they work for me. I could speak with them if I cared for them and had need for further interaction. Notice, the response is different in all cases but there is always a response the protects my boundary.

Let's go further, let's say I mess up at work and get my fanny chewed by the boss and it is not very respectful. What do I do? I could quit. I could just take it. I could respond that I deserved the chewing out, but I will NOT TOLERATE the disrespect. That might get me fired, or it might earn respect. I have to decide how to protect my boundaries based on the situation.

I think I could sumarries your stated boundaries as:

1. I will not tolerate disrespect.
2. I will not enter into any personal situation that threatens my marriage or makes me vulnerable emotionally.

What you listed is how you plan to react to different people if they cross one of those boundaries. You see boundaries are more fundamental and they are about YOU, not other people. Your response to a boundary being crossed should be different in different situation and may be different if one response is not effective with the same person.

Are you seeing what I am saying.

Another boundary is that I will always respect and act respectful toward my H. Or I will always honor myself and my marriage. Those are also boundaries that YOU place on YOU. How you react if someone violates those boundaries or you are tempted violate them yourself.

I personally have my wedding vows as my boundaries. Why? Well, do I expect my W to keep me faithful? Do I expect my W to make me act in a loving manner toward her? Do I expect my W to make sure any of my vows/promises are kept? No! I made those vows in public to my W, but I am the one that has to enforce them. It is my integrity, my boundaries that I must enforce. If one takes that point of view, the "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" mindset is never even on the radar, because I am responsible for my own boundaries/vows/promises and her knowing something or not knowing something is not even part of the issue. These are MY boundaries I have to protect.

So are you seeing the issue of boundaries a bit clearer?

I look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

You can't make someone talk to you. IMO the best way to deal with this is to ignore her. In my experience the best way to get your point across to someone like this is to act like you don't even notice.

This is just mean. Did you or someone else defend your niece? How old is your niece?

This is something that may never change. If she does this to you I suspect she does it to others and they know her MO.


I can kind of understand her reaction. She may not like you but it also could have been in a reaction to you hurting her son. I would let this one go.
I would let this one go although I would talk to your husband about these comments she has made in regards to your marriage. You can't make your MIL like you. You can express your feeling about it to your husband.

Ok, this one is creepy. I haven't eskimo kissed my kids since they were little. I think if I did they would think I had lost my mind.
Can you give examples of 2 faced in regards to your sister?

Thanks JL, I knew I would find this difficult, sometimes it is easier to have specific examples of when I would use them, but it seems they are more general for everyday use...

OK here goes;

1. I will not tolerate disrespect
2. I will respect and honour my marriage vows
3. I will not enter into a situation which could be disrespectful to my H or weddings vows
4. I will not lose my temper
5. I will act in a calm, controlled manner
6. I will listen without interupting when others talk (i do this a lot)
7. I will not be judgemental

Let me know what you think....Thank you

Thanks Suamico...

In response to your points;

ignoring - Just before we broke up, I started to get the hang of this one, when we got back together I went to H family funeral, MIL ignored me and I thought fine, I'll do the same. Shortly after that she through her arms around me sobbing, so I put my arms around her and went there, there. H said he was very proud of me (H says about his M that she can be 'difficult' at times).

fat pink fairy - MIL said it in front of everyone when we were out having dinner, infront of my H. My rule with MIL has always been to never be rude to her and let things go in one ear out the other for the sake of H. My niece is 10, mainly a little puppy fat, but nothing out of the ordinary, she called her a fat pink elephant (not fairy). I brought it up with H, and he mentioned it to his Mother who responded she was just been over familiar and I was too sensitive. H agreed.

better stories - yes agree just let it goo - blah blah blah. What is MO by the way?

reconciliation - agree let it go, just looking after her son

wedding comments - I did mention it to H, he laughed.

eskimo kiss - it was very weird, this is another thing I don't like about her is that she treats my H, like a surrogate H, asking his opinion on eveything and getting him to do things she should be asking her own H. she is not in a happy M, they have separate bedrooms and recently she punched her H and gave him a black eye. She told me once she hates him.

To be honest it is not all these individal little things, it is the fact that she seems to resent anyone who takes her sons attention from her and it makes me mad that she won't just want to see her son happy. In addition, she has 3 sons and has never had a good rship with any of their wives/GFs. One of her other sons divorced and I think the MIL was a big problem there.

sorry gone on a bit too much there.

PS. what is weirdest about the eskimo kiss was my H reaction, he didn't do ANYTHING. Not even flinch. It was one of those moments for me when I thought, did that just happen. I do see the funny side thank goodness.

Hitch,

I think I prefer the specific list to the general one. But maybe for this purposes you should keep the focus here on your M.
Eg I will not tolerate being disrespected.
So if a shop assistant is rude or off-hand with me in a shop, what do I do? Do I not tolerate that by putting down my items and leaving the shop or do I tolerate it by shrugging it off and not taking it too seriously.
The problem is that disrespect is a wooly concept, difficult to define.
Also, if they are too general they become some kind ofunattainable wish-list. eg I will behave in a calm, controlled manner. (I assume you don't have a lot of dealings with 2-year-olds. 'Once I lose control I will lock myself into the bathroom' was a rule I had with my twins.)
Having specific reponses in mind for transgressive behaviours is worth working on because they often occur with the same people over and over and they allow you to respond quickly to a situation which is essential.

I can't go through the list right now but try using humour sometimes, it can be a powerful tool.
eg say to your rude friend, 'so, X are you this rude to everyone or is it just because you especially love me?' She'll get your point.

And I don't think it's a good idea to placate MIL all the time. You can get away with a lot of comments with a smile and a touch of humour and standing up to bullies is always a good thing.

Ok I have some boundaries in place, and H is booked in to talk to Steve Harley on weds. Also H has not stayed out all night since last week and even stayed in with me tonight whilst I cooked dinner. A little step in the right direction?