Plan A? After all he's done?

ARE YOU MAD?

YES, she should do Plan A.

I would consider the criteria for a stellar Plan A to have been met as long as she does not actually (a) impale him and then (b) roast him on a spit. People with MS can live to be 70 or 80 years old. He's already embarrassed by her crutch, and she's still got decades of living to go. I'm not saying she needs to decide right now. I am saying that, in making up her mind for the long term, she is the one whose needs should be given the greatest weight.

tl

(This is wheels posting on sapph BTW, ill get off after this post)

A Plan B is only as effective as the Plan A. A high quality Plan A will produce a better plan B. A great plan A shows the best person that the WS is leaving behind for OP (carrot and stick and all). Then, when WS sees what they are missing, but is still cake eating, you gotta throw out the trash, and go dark.

I would suggest a short Plan A also if ash wants to recover her marriage. She has protected herself, her boys, and all her assets she can think of, and prepared for the Plan D. That's awesome! It only takes a couple signatures to show that divorce is immanent and ash is not playing around or going to be a doormat. I guess the next step is to try to R the marriage if she wants. This is a long haul and the tiny planned steps come in. This is where major changes are performed.

How does one do a Plan A with a WS who has been threatening to the point that the BS has had to file a restraining order and alert neighbors and security and has taken significant marital funds fraudulently thus putting the BS and her children at financial risk?

I think, at this point, it really is about Dragonfly keeping herself physically, financially and emotionally safe. Plan A shouldn't be done when there is significant abuse (financial, threats that require a restraining order etc) should it?

As many vets on here have said, this isn't a "marriage at all costs" site. I think this is one of those situations.

I heartily agree, johnstwin.

Did he do something more than this and taking money?:


Because unless there is something I am missing here, this is nothing more than an angered WS who is ranting because he was kicked out of his home. That would describe about 99% of the waywards around here: angry and entitled when caught and faced with the consequences.

The bottom line is that if DF decides she wants to keep her options open and might want to reconcile, then she needs to use a more strategic approach and not burn this bridge entirely.

Certainly this is not a "marriage at all cost" website, but the decision to end her marriage is not for US for make. That is HER decision. NOT OURS.

Who should make this decision about her marriage? HER? Or us? Has she given us the decision making authority over her life?

Mel - he threatened to physically break down gates, verbal abuse and such, plus his follow up threats.

If she didn't have MS which is made worse by stress, I'd say Plan A. But she has MS. And I don't think Plan A would be the healthiest thing for her to do right now.

I would have broken down the gates if I had been kicked out of my home. That would rightfully anger any rational person. I don't see anything here that leads me to believe he is worse than any other enraged WS. He got caught, got kicked out and he became enraged. Why is this guy any different from all the rest?

And maybe she can't handle the stress of a 2 week Plan A, but she seems pretty tough to me. She has more balls than about 90% of the folks we see here.

If she wants to save her marriage, and AGAIN that has to be HER decision, not ours, then she should consider a short Plan A before she goes dark. The odds of reconciliation are greatly reduced if the last thing he recalls is getting kicked out of his home.

I am still wondering how she can PLAN A her WH given her circumstances?

After all, it was after MB told her to expose the A to the OWH's that she discovered that her WH had stolen significant funds from their marital assets to set up the "love nest" (part of the legal issues) AND then she was threatened to the point that the police consider it a serious threat.

What do you suggest she do under these circumstances?

Here is what I want to ask Dragonfire:

a) do you want to save your marriage?

b) if so, do you have the strength to endure a 2 week Plan A where you make friendly overtures to him about the future?

You are the only one who is qualified to answer those questions. I know he has done some crummy things. All WS's do. But many of them do an 180 degree change. Your H is not irredeemable. No one is.

What concerns me here is that folks are getting whipped up into a frenzy and encouraging a very distraught woman to make life changing, permanent decisions about a temporary situation.

What would be so wrong about not making any decision NOW but keeping all options open? That is all I am suggesting with a short Plan A. She may decide with a cooler, calmer head in 6 months to get divorced. But to make such a decision now seems very, very hasty to me.

Mel - I agree - she's one of the most mentally tough women I've seen here. But physically this last week has weakened her. that's where my concern for the attempt comes into play. Her body may require a different tactic.

Mel-

I am not "whipped up". I have not experienced what DF, but I have experienced being bone-drained, fuzzy brained and completely exhausted because of a medical condition(mine was temporary thank goodness) while dealing with an A so I know how hard it is to do more than just concentrate on getting well enough to make a decision. A modified plan B, while DF's WH is sooo far gone as to steal from her and the kids and threaten to break in doors because he is "entitled to" is probably for the best for right now.

Do you really think that it's okay for a WS to threaten to break down the gates or doors if they have left and then were told not to come back considering all that you have been through with WS?

I don't think just about anything a WS does is "OK." But that is beside the point. What is critical is what SHE wants to do. This is HER MARRIAGE and she is the only one who can decide what she wants.

I want to hear what she thinks about all this.

Then we do agree. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I agree it is not marriage at all costs. I also think that DF should make an informed decision. It is her body and her health. Only she can decide if she wants to put her body through Plan A and recovery. I didn't feel comfortable pushing it because of the health reasons. And, you know - some people just aren't built to Plan A. That isn't a bad thing, it just is.

But she should know it is possible to overcome this.

However, as she has already filed and as he has threatened her enough to justify a restraining order. As he is already in his lurv shack with skanky OW - logistically I'm not sure HOW she would plan A.

Though maybe a meeting in a public place she could extend an olive branch and give a Plan B letter.

Really it's all about letting DF know her options. Know that recovery is possible. But also know the drawbacks and dangers it poses to her physically and mentally.

DF I hope you're not overwhelmed by the action going on here. Know we all have your best interest at heart. Only you can decide what is best for you and your family. I agree - you are one tough chicky.

You do realize that divorce is just as traumatic? While recovery may be hard, divorce is usually harder.

If recovery is approached properly, ie: affair ended, true sincere desire to repair the marriage, etc, then while it is hard, it is done with an achievable goal in sight. And if she follows this program properly, she wouldn't even consider recovery until those conditions were met.

Thanks V - for asking them, because
The answers are EXACTLY what I need to know

And how could you ever offend me, you and MB have been my LIFE LINE

Some people just don't have sense to keep from wading into the fray. Apparently, I fall into that group. I'm somewhat shocked and very disappointed in myself.

(1) On page 5 of DF's thread (7/22), she said this:


I realize there are other people here who have recovered their marriages after having said essentially the same thing before their husband or wife had an affair. However, (no criticism to you, DF--simply an acknowledgment of what you described as your own capability) it does show that she will find recovery difficult because she'd already in the past decided she couldn't do it. It's not going to be any easier in practice than in theory, and she already decided that even in theory it wasn't something she manage.

(2) Here's a brief description of MS. I do not know whether she has the relapsing or the progressive form. Stress helps neither, that much is sure. She will have this the rest of her life, and she can anticipate a normal life span.

Almost any neurological symptom can appear with the disease, and often progresses to physical and cognitive disability. MS takes several forms, with new symptoms occurring either in discrete attacks (relapsing forms) or slowly accumulating over time (progressive forms). Between attacks, symptoms may go away completely, but permanent neurological problems often occur, especially as the disease advances.

(3) It would be common for her physical symptoms to get more severe over the course of her life. Her husband is already embarrassed by her crutch. How will he feel about the wheelchair? Will he help feed her and change her if she gets to the place where she can't do these things for herself? I am not an MB success story. I'm not an MB story at all, except as Neak's mother. I don't think there are many people here who would trade their marriage, on a day-to-day basis, for mine. My husband can be a cantankerous old coot, but I do know this: If I was sick, had a stroke, a heart attack, became paralyzed, whatever, that man would have my back. He would take care of me, or if he was unable to do it himself, he'd see that it got done right. He may have annoyed the heck out of me right up to the moment of my medical emergency, but by George, he'd be a faithful rock the moment I needed someone to hold onto. Can DF imagine Mr. DF ever doing the same for her? If he can't be a real husband with this degree of "sickness", and if health isn't coming back, will he be her husband when the "sickness" part gets deeper and more difficult? I'm skeptical on that myself, based on what she's said. Only she really can really hazard an educated guess, though.

(4) Yes, a divorce would be stressful, as well as a recovery. The difference there is that the divorce process comes to an end. It is finite and then finished. Recovery can limp along for years, well after a divorce would have rendered the marriage dead and decently interred. Trying for recovery is no guarantee of recovery. It is a guarantee of long-term, high stress. It nearly wiped Neak off the map, and she was healthy to start out with. A woman with MS needs to do some very careful, medically-advised considering before she puts herself into the recovery wringer.

(5) She can be just as nice as she wants to be regarding a Plan A. It would take a LOT of savoir faire to pull something like that off at this very moment, but if she thinks she can, more power to her. Even if she has no intention of reconciling, if she herself is sweet and lets her solicitors be tough--bad cop to her good cop--she may have a much easier time in getting through the next few weeks and months...and a better chance of getting what she wants, too.

(6) Let the dust settle, dear DragonFire, before you make your final decision. Protect yourself any way you need to do so, but give yourself time to decompress and think. You've been in your "fight-or-flight" response mode for a couple of weeks now. It's time to let the adrenaline, the stress hormones, that hyped you up and kept you going on so little sleep, begin to return to normal levels. Don't make any decisions during this time, under the influence of great stress, that are impossible to change if you want to change them, once the situation slows down.

And good luck. All of it.

tl