Keep working the plans and you will see wonders. DrH is AMAZING. I don't remember, have you read SAA? If not, you should. It really does go into things more than the site does and in different ways. It is GREAT. I have read it a few times.

Just bought two copies of SAA and two copies of His Needs, Her Needs. I figured that my WW might benefit from reading them as well.

That is great news, user! Here is what Dr Harley has written about the no contact letter:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

My WW current position is that she knows that she needs to write a NC letter and totally end the relationship with the OM. However, she is not sure that our relationship is meant to be. In other words, she says she knows there is no future with him. But, she is not sure if we have been / are going to be good partners. I find this discouraging. Should she even write a letter until she knows she wants to be with me? It is worthless to me unless she chooses that she wants to salvage our marriage. What do you all think?

Furthermore, we are considering a Family Dynamics marriage in crisis retreat this weekend. I don't even know if I should be doing this until she is ready to commit to our marriage. That said, the program suggests that all married couples in crisis (like infidelity) give it a try. Thoughts?

My WW current position is that she knows that she needs to write a NC letter and totally end the relationship with the OM.

GOOD !

However, she is not sure that our relationship is meant to be. I find this discouraging.

It's par for the course.
Continue PLAN A.

Should she write that in the letter?

Noooooooooooo

Should she even write a letter until she knows she wants to be with me?

Yes! If she is willing to write a NC letter .... help her write it.


It is worthless to me unless she chooses that she wants to salvage our marriage.

Women are generally not going to turn their emotions around on a dime.
It will take time for her to lose her feelings for OM.
It will take time for her to discover renewed feelings for you.


What do you all think?

I think you've just begun.

She said ILYBNILWY. Hurts / hopeless, but what can you do? Got to keep working Plan A. Told her that we could discuss her return to the house once she says that she wants to work on the marriage. She did send the NC letter. Should I bring her back in now? Is telling her that I want her to want to work on the marriage before she moves back home a LB (selfish demand)? Her taker is saying "I don't know if this will make me happy".

Thoughts?

You would probably have better luck with the Marriage Builders online program. They give you all the materials and assign you a personal coach. You have daily access to Dr Harley over on the weekend forum.

I think Family Dynamics uses Marriage Builders materials, but why not go to the real deal? The Harleys have had some real successes turning reluctant spouses around. Here is the here.

user, just ask her if she will go through a marriage course. That is not her taker asking if she can be happy; all people want to be happy in marriage. It is what we expect. She should get an answer to that. Tell her that you want her to be happy; you want both of you to be happy. That is your expectation and your goal.

The reason I suggested the Marriage Builders course is because the MB course effectively restores romantic love if followed properly.

We went through a family dynamics workshop. The workshop leveraged Harley's Fall in Love, Stay in Love. Sharing with other couples that have or are experiencing these issues gave us hope that we have a chance. We both recognize that we are on a high coming off a 3 day workshop. So...

I am going to try to involved my WW in the 8 week online MB program. Kinda concerned she may become aware of this forum. Does that ever happen? Should I make her aware of this thread? Good thing? Bad thing? Thoughts?

Continuing to try to work Plan A. NC letter sent. She is not living at home (staying with parents), but may stay there a few nights this week. She is considering an apt. Truthfully, niether she nor I want to jump back into our marriage if it is unhappy. We want to be in a happy marriage. I hope that we can make it happen. Getting through the crisis seems first order, then instilling MB principles to ensure happy marriage.

Long way to go..

user, I would not bring her to this thread. If you feel like that might happen, then you can ask the mods to move it for safekeeping. The MB course is awesome and they would assign you a coach. You would have daily access to Dr Harley too.

You will get "happy" much sooner if she moves back home. Living apart makes this much harder.

Thanks for your reply MelodyLane. I asked my WW to spend the night in the guest room yesterday since I had to catch an early flight in the morning (4-5am). We have discussed the potential of her "moving back in", but she is unsure about it. She "concerned" that what if it doesn't work, then it might be worse. I told her that her view is short term and based purely on emotions. The fact is that this is as bad as it gets. Our marriage is hanging by thread, separated or not. At least living under the same roof, we have more interaction and can both be around our 1 year old. I think she understands and can appreciate that perspective. But, she is hesitant to move back in because she doesn't want to feel controled. She want to feel like an equal partner.

So, yesterday she shows up with a list of "things she is willing to do" to work on our marriage. We've been discussing an agreement to try out for the next couple of months that includes things like the policy of joint agreement. Her list includes open access to phone/email, NC, etc. It is a start, but certainly not as aggressive as I would like to be.

Should I take it as a good start and try to build on it? Truthfully, I can't force her to do the things I want her to do. I don't want to force her to do the things I want her to do to restore our trust. It's up to her. I see this as a good start, but not enough in the end.

Update...

Yesterday she checked OM's email from the home computer. I called her on this and told her it violated NC.

After further interrogation, she admitted that two weeks ago (when we were separated and she was living with her parents), the OM came to their house twice (once at 10pm and once at 2am). She swears up and down that he was there for 15 minutes each time, chat only, kissing, nothing physical. Our child was asleep in another bedroom. Her parents were out of town.

WTF? I asked her to stay in our home this week and I'm trying to work Plan A, but I am losing my strength quickly. I just wrote her family an e-mail telling them about the last time we were all out of town 2 weeks ago, urging them to stay in town this weekend and be by her side (I am out of town again).

Also, she admitted that he is in love with her and would want a relationship in the future. She maintains that she does not see or want a future with him, but that she does have feelings. She also gave me ILYBNILWY line again.

Please advise...

user, be sure and call the OMW and let her know this too. I don't believe he only stayed for 15 minutes. You can compare notes with the OMW to see.

Your wife does not want to come back yet because she thinks there is still hope with the OM. Your job is dash that hope by causing as much trouble in the OM's life as possible. Call his wife, go pay him a visit, expose his affair on facebook. Cause as much trouble as possible so he will leave your wife alone.

In the meantime, be as sweet as possible to your wife so she will have a safe place to land when the affair really is over.

She is lying that she does not want a future with him. I bet she is waiting for him to leave his wife. I bet he asked her to wait.

Your inlaws are not helping her one bit by giving her a place to stay. If they would tell her to leave she would have to come home. If she comes home you can prevent her from seeing the OM and you would be able to work on your marriage.

Can you talk to them and ask them to send her home?

She is staying at the house this week. The reason is that I go to work in the early morning hours this week and I don't want to wake the baby and cart her across town at 5am. So, my WW is staying in the guest room this week.

I sent an e-mail to her parents and siblings this morning exposing what happened 2 weeks ago. Her parents came by and told her that they would not allow that behavior in their house, they she had betrayed them by doing so, that if she wants to act like that then the OM needs to get her an apartment.

This is a f***ing mess.

I am not sure that I can visit the OM. I am concerned that I will not be able to control myself

Wow, your in-laws are awesome!

Can you bring someone with you to visit OM? These POS OM and OW usually HATE being confronted.

No, it is not!! This is a great development. If you can influence her parents to boot her out then that will create huge conflict in her fantasy. she has had it too easy!


Can you bring a friend? What about her DAD? I would also call his wife and start working on exposing to his family. Does he have a facebook account?

My sister's H had an A, he was very heavily invested in it. We did exactly what ML is recommending above. We confronted the OW in person (she HATED it and freaked out) and my S also FB exposed the OW. Within days she would have NOTHING to do with my S's H. It ended the A.

When you say confront, what do you mean? Could you describe? Calm confrontation? Angry confrontation?

Calm but FIRM. Ask him "what are you intentions with my wife?" Tell him you will be fighting for your marriage and he will hear from you again if he doesn't leave your wife alone. If this gets to the divorce level, you will sue on grounds of adultery and have him called in to court to give testimony under oath about his affair.

Tell him there is no future for him with your wife because he would be eternally hated by your child for breaking up the family. He will never be accepted by the inlaws. In short, there is no future with your wife.