Fred, your WW sounds like Mother Theresa compared to this hound.

Yes, she does. My apologies, Zelmo. And double apologies to you Zim, for my seeming schadenfreude.

Zim,

Your WW sounds a lot like my ex. She is very comfortable and very used to controlling you. Any fight you put up, she will use all the anger in her heart to beat you down and submit. It's worked wonders for her in the past.

Now, once you start defending yourself and fighting back, expect the anger to intensify to a level you have never seen. She will call you controlling, abusive, make stuff up about you, etc, etc, etc.

Don't listen to it. It is extremely hard not to. But all it is is noise. Keep the VAR going. Always wear a shirt with a front pocket when around her. Put the VAR in it the pocket. SHOW her the recorder and put it in your pocket. Even if she says she wants you to stop taping her, she will have no defense. You see, once she knows she is being taped, she has the option of keeping her trap shut. But remember, the purpose of the VAR is for DEFENSE when she files a false DV charge against you.

Good morning all, and thanks for the responses. I've got a busy day lined up.

I don't currently have a VAR but will be getting one today before she returns. Thanks for that bit of advice. I'm going to need it, as her phone calls when she left went like this.

1. OM
2. Friend who has been paying for prepaid cell
3. Local women's shelter
4. OM
5. Local women's shelter
6. Friend who has been paying for prepaid cell
7. Me

Even for us non-intuitive types it's not too hard to predict the upcoming course of action she'll be taking.

So, off to see a lawyer and a banker. Wish me luck, and thanks again for the support.

I really hope you step up today Zim. Otherwise, you may as well stop by the local jail to see where you will be sleeping.

I hope you realize the purpose of the calls to the shelter?

Welcome to Screwedville....population....you.

Zim,

I really hope you have a lawyer who will fight for you. Civil protection orders work like this:

You go into the courthouse and talk to the DV Advocate

1. Tell them you are affraid. You don't need any evidence. Her saying I'm having an affair and he is not taking it well will suffice
2. Protection order is issued, you are kicked out of the house, have to pay support
3. She moves OM in
4. Status quo is now established for custody and property division
5. You are served papers, hearing is in a few days

At the hearing, they will offer a consent mediation to drop the charges in exchange for the releif requested in the original protection order.

If you truely did not yell, or threaten, or touch her, force a trial. The burden of proof is now on her to PROVE that something happened. THis is where your lawyer comes in. When both litigants are unrepresented, the judge will allow just about anything into evidence as long as the other side does not object.

So, if she says her "friend" said you were a raving lunatic, it will be admitted into evidence unless you object. Her saying what a friend said is not evidence, it is hearsay if they don't testify.

In one of the 4 protection orders my ex filed against me (all were dismissed after they went to trial), she said I had sent her an email threatening to kill her. When we went to trial, she did not bring the email, she couldn't even remember what was said in it when questioned by my attorney. Needless to say, the protection order was dismissed. However, if my attorney didn't push the issue of her not presenting the email as evidence, then the judge may have believed her word.


In your sitch, she is going to say that you yelled, threatened, etc, etc, etc.

When you go to court, make sure you point out the following:
1. YOU called 911 because
2. SHE took the kids
3. It was her LOVER's Birthday
4. Police told you they would look for her. They did not arrest you, give you a warning, or anything.
5. If she says the taping is threatening, well, your response is you are trying to protect yourself in case she files a DV charge.

The DV laws are there to protect those who really need it. Unfortunately, they are also severely abused because it is a very efficient way to get an upper hand in divorce proceedings. Unfotunately, this looks like the tactic your WW is going to use.

Way to kick someone while they are already down. Geesh.

I certainly do not mean it as a kick! Just as a reminder of reality. The last week of advice didn't work so maybe something different will?

Zim's an admitted enabler and now his kids are in jeopardy of losing their father. He needs to step up in a big way.

I don't think telling a man to be a man is kicking.

Read this Zim...

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...&Number=1984719&nt=2&fpart=1

If it's any comfort, MaiMai, I didn't see it as a kick either--and I very seldom disagree with Kimmy. It was certainly an exceptionally-vivid warning of what's ahead of Zim doesn't immediately take steps to protect himself...kinda like the Ghost of Christmas yet to come...a present warning with the chance to still change the future. Which is NOT implying that Zim is Scrooge!! But he certainly was going to be screwed if he let his wife continue with her plans unchallenged.

tl

MaiMai is right. Just for grins, here's what happened to me:

1. I walk in on my exWW and POSOM naked and asleep in bed together
2. I take pictures
3. I wake exWW up, give her the camera, take the flash card out
4. I leave the house with exWW following behind me screaming every word imaginable
5. That afternoon, exWW files a protection order against me
6. THe next day, exWW moves POSOM's 10 horses to the farm as well as the rest of his stuff
7. The hearing is 5 days later, exWW asks for a continuance, gets it, hearing is delayed 6 weeks. However, interim orders are put in place that state:
a. Every other weekend visitation
b. I must pay for the house as well as all household expenses. Therefore, POSOM is living in my house on MY DIME and there is not a thing in the world I could do about it
c. Since things were delayed 6 weeks, I was FORCED to get an apartment
8. We have the hearing, exWW is represented, I'm represented. We insist on a trial. It's dismissed after a trial.
9. She filed 3 others after this for various reasons, these went to trial because she was not represented.

For the couple of weeks prior to me finding her in bed, the exWW had been trying to get me to move out which made NO sense whatsoever. We were having major money issues, but WE HAD TWO HOUSES ON OUR PROPERTY! One could live in the big house, one could live in the doublewide! However, this meant that POSOM would have to move off the property.

Once I found them in bed together, the game was up for POSOM and exWW. Unless she acted quick, POSOM would soon be off the property. My biggest mistake in hindsigt was letting my fear control me. Instead of going to work after I found them in bed, I should have gone straight to the courthouse and filed a protection order to beat her to the punch. Back then, I didn't know my rights. Now I do.

But, the first protection order served its purpose - it got me off the farm so she could move POSOM in. By delaying things for 6 weeks, she was able to CEMENT POSOM's living arrangements.

Same here, it was no kick, just a good , solid warning. When I was a young law clerk, I used to assist in preparation of these orders. We had a good Judge/Referee who would not rubber stamp them and , even at the preliminary hearing, if the guy showed up represented, there was a good chance the Judge would not sign the order.
You can get steamrolled, though , if you go it alone. Find a good advocate.
Or, beat her to the courthouse, and file for our own. She's taken the kids. She has been acting irrationally. You can allege the same fear she can.

Admit to NOTHING if you are in one of the following states:


Simply deny any allegations of taping, eavesdropping and wiretapping. Unless you are under oath, you are not obligated to give any evidence against yourself. I'm not saying you broke the law or not. How would I know. I'm just advising you to not tread anywhere near incriminating yourself and to make them prove you broke the law.

Remember...it is NOT illegal to overhear conversations and it is NOT illegal to check a joint email address which you share with your wife or that she consentually gave you the password and access to. "Consent" is the key...for example, your wife could have consented to a keylogger on a computer (to monitor the kids use of said computer) and just forgot it was there. However, that is an "argument" for another day...deny upfront and leave everyone else to their proofs. Just saying.

Mr. Wondering

Listen to PSU

I hope you didn't go to work today and headed for the courthouse.

bump


u.o.k?

Let us know how things are going.

It's hard to believe it's been almost a full month since I last posted. Here's a quick summary.

The day after my WW left with my children, I went to an attorney who advised me that the timing was bad and that I'd have to wait until after the new year to get anything started. He made some recommendations concerning bank accounts that mirrored many of the recommendations here.

So, I went to our bank and transferred half of our funds to an account to which only I have access.

This seemed to be the trigger she needed to really get things stirred up at the shelter. They quickly worked to get her in front of a judge who placed a Personal Protection Order against me.

I was removed from my home by the police the next day. They advised me to have no contact of any kind with my wife and children.

I believe I'll need to find a new attorney........

So, I was out of the house, had nothing but free time, so exposure became the order of the day.

The following day, I filed a motion to terminate the PPO and a hearing was scheduled for 2 weeks out. I got clarification from the court on what behavior was and wasn't allowed based on the PPO. Turns out phone conversations were still allowed. On the paperwork I noticed that she could also file a motion to terminate.

It must have been the exposure, or possibly the time spent in the shelter, but something had a big impact on her while I was gone. She called and apologized for the PPO and I informed her that she could terminate it. She went to the court house first thing the next morning and got the PPO terminated.

I was nervous about coming back home, so we met for dinner. We had a long chat, she apologized some more, lots of tears. She told me she talked to the OM that morning when she got back from the court house and ended it.

I didn't come home until the following day, but have been home since. I wouldn't say we're in recovery, but I'm back with plan A. She has expressed commitment to our M and has again promised NC.

I'm starting to see glimpses of the woman I married. She still refuses to accept responsibility for the affair, so there is obviously a lot of work remaining.

OM's divorce is final in a few weeks. Coincidentally, my wife and I will be at a marriage seminar out of town when that happens.....

Last Friday I discovered a free texting app on my wife's iPhone along with a long conversation between OM and WW.

I didn't handle it all that well and blindsided my wife with what I'd found. I had to take my son to an outing so we left things hanging.

Upon my return, I apologized for the way I approached her and informed her of my hurt and disappointment. She then proceeded to attack me for calling my family and pastor. SOP for her.

She later stated that she was 100% committed to me and that she's been gently pushing him away. I explained that this hurt just like the day I discovered them kissing on the beach. That's when she decided to say my snooping was what was causing us issues - I was building walls and pushing her away.

I now have additional information of further contact and kisses between WW and OM after the above conversation occurred.

So, I'm seeking advice on continued plan A.

I see recommendations for a BS whose WS is in an active, in-your-face affair to work plan A and I see recommendations for a BS whose foggy WS has broken NC to go plan B. Where does the line get drawn?

I'm considering another round of exposure as well.

Also, how can you change the title to the original thread?

How do we justify continued snooping after the discovery, when one of the tenets of plan A is "no expectations".

I've continued to snoop, and I continue to find contact. If I'm to have no expectations, what is the point?

I'm trying with the carrot, but I can't quite find the line to apply the stick. If I'm trying to out-affair the OM, the stick just gets in the way, no?

I've confronted a time or two ( stick? ), and all it does is strain the relationship. I'm now the one now who can't be trusted. I understand the fog-babble concept, and can see her attempts to justify her behavior.

I think the issue I'm really having at the moment is that I know there should be no expectations, but I don't know how to get there.

Were you under the impression that Plan A was supposed to be a way of life? No Sir, it is not. It is not intended to be a way of life for conflict avoiders, but a very short term plan to negotiate the end of the affair. She has not ended her affair.

The next step is plan B. I would make arrangements to separate from her and get her legally kicked out of your home on grounds of adultery.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair that gives an overview of Plan B?

This "plan A" is what Dr Harley terms "plan C" [a prolonged period of enabing a cake eating spouse] for compromise and it is the most likely to lead to divorce. Enabling her for this length of time only gives her expectations of entitlement.