FYI-- in a horrible, twist of tragicomedy, she left me last night. Thanks for the advice guys.

Took her out to dinner and just tried to be friends, take it slow, no pressure. Had a really nice time talking over dinner. Some sincere laughs and light-hearted stuff that is typical for our relationship. No neediness on my part. Then the drive home was suddenly very awkward. When we got to the house, more awkward still.


I asked "Are you OK?" and then she dropped the bomb that this wasn't what she wanted. I was very dialed down and calm and just listened to her. She was very determined that she could not spend the night in our house and went to her office to sleep.

More horror. After three years of recovery. I feel like a chump.

I am so sorry, Treadwell. I can almost assure you she is having an affair. Her reaction to your snooping and your inability to trust her are huge red flags that she is seeing someone. Why else would someone get so upset at your snooping unless she had something to hide? There is a possibility you can save your marriage if you listen to us.

I would find out who it is. Hire a PI and then we can help you save your marriage. Check out this quote by Dr Harley, who is a clinical psychologist with 35 years experience:

here

"I am so sorry, Treadwell. I can almost assure you she is having an affair. Her reaction to your snooping and your inability to trust her are huge red flags that she is seeing someone. Why else would someone get so upset at your snooping unless she had something to hide? There is a possibility you can save your marriage if you listen to us.

I would find out who it is. Hire a PI and then we can help you save your marriage. Check out this quote by Dr Harley, who is a clinical psychologist with 35 years experience:


Originally Posted By: Dr Willard HarleyI've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.

Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings."




EXACTLY!

Here's the thing-- we have one car. I drop her off at work and pick her up. We go out every weekend together and have for the past three years. Up until last week, I had complete access to her email and FB accounts. She could be hiding something at work, i.e. a secret email account... But she has next to no time in front of a computer. Still a possibility, I know.

She works in an environment where cheating at work would be incredibly difficult. But I must pursue this and make sure.

I hear what you guys are saying and trust it. How much for a PI? I installed a keylogger today. She will be coming home shortly.
I caught her initial affair using a keylogger, so she is aware of my computer tech savvy in that regard.

I'm not really sure I want to patch anything. To go through three years of intense anxiety-battles, my own trust issues, and so many sleepless nights thinking of the affair, it's unimaginably disheartening that I get this news. We are affectionate. We have not lived in constant arguing. Our life-- especially since the affair-- could be categorized as loving, close, communicative and romantic. The last two months have felt quietly odd for me- hence the increased anxiety. But for the most part, we have enjoyed some really fun times together. She texts me throughout the day-- funny /cute stuff, we laugh all the time, we've had a really splendid sex life (on average 2 times a week-- and we have four kids!) and she is always communicating her feelings for me. We have a blast as a family. Beach, sports, exercise, etc...

All of this is one more reason why I am so terribly devastated. Our kids will be too. Our kids have grown up in a home where mom and dad respect each other, consistently show affection and take time for our love life. Our kids have known for three years, Saturday night is Mom-n-Dad night. I know everyone always says the same thing, but man o man. We have not been at odds or distant in the traditional sense.

Maybe she's just the greatest liar of all time.

After a three-year marathon of recovery-- despite my occasional anxieties-- I could see clearly the reward... the restored joy of a long term relationship. And now that has been pulled away.

HELP!!!

Given the all data I've posted in the text above, would you guys still be certain she's emotionally or sexually involved with someone???

My own rationale has always been, unless there is physical abuse or cruelty, a spouse with children, a warm home and a Life is NOT going to just WALK OUT suddenly and leave it all behind unless they are moving TOWARDS SOMETHING ELSE CONCRETE.

A woman is not going suddenly drop the word DIVORCE and be prepared to pack up immediately, unless something concrete was waiting for her of greater value.

Additional thoughts on this? Anyone?

I agree with your reasoning. Not to mention the fact that the solution to a bad marriage is to work to turn it around. She has not mentioned that.

In the meantime, I would simply refuse to cooperate with any divorce schemes.

Where did she go last night? If she is having an affair, I would suspect she went to be with him. The fact that you drop her off at work does not mean she is not having an affair. OM have cars and can pick her up for lunch. We have had WW have sex in the parking garage. We have a man who is disabled and his wife dropped him off too. He was having an affair for years!

I'd bet money that she is. I recommend that you investigate CheckMate, or something similar that is available where you live. If and when she comes home today, get whatever panties she was wearing last night (when she changes clothes or gets in the shower) and make sure they don't get washed so you can process them for trace evidence of semen. It won't change what did or didn't happen, but at least you will have facts to deal with.

Definitely for an A...

First place I would check is FB & email. Can you figure out the password/s? If you can, don't forget to check the FB chat history. Print off any evidence you find, hide it, and come here before you confront her.

Next, do you have or can you gain access to her cell phone records? If you can check this and she knows you have access to the phone records, then she may have an affair phone and I would get a VAR installed pronto.

Otherwise, hopefully the keylogger will pick up some info for you soon. It will be tough, but try to act as "normal" as possible...

Hang in there.

Did anything w/n the last 6 mos or so? A new coworker mentioned?

Oftentimes, waywards find ways to work the OP into conversation. Don't rule anyone out (eg, he's too old, she would never have an A with him!, etc) If you think back, maybe you might be able to figure it out...

If you do decide to R, make sure to do it the RIGHT way and follow the MB plans to the letter. Make that your boundary and don't accept less this time. Mutual trust isn't in the MB plans and therefore shouldn't be part of your marital plan for R.

I have the sense that your W is a very skillful gaslighter and has used your insecurities against you. You don't have "trust issues"...

Sometimes something will happen to make me want to snoop until I feel reassured nothing is going on. I will never let my H or anyone else make me feel badly about it. I don't have an anxiety condition. This is normal behavior for a BS. Have a little more confidence in yourself

This was my feeling exactly. He is being made to feel like the bad guy for not trusting an untrustworthy person.

Thanks for the comments everyone! What a different light I see things in today.

She is adamant about leaving. I do see now that I don't really have "trust issues" except with her. Thanks for that. I have run a marathon for three years and I'm worn out. I love my kids so much. They are the joy of my life and provide wonderful happiness in this misery.

Two issues for feedback:

1) My wife is proposing a joint custody arrangement until we start actual legal proceedings. I am the children's primary care provider... She wants me to stay with them Sunday thru Thursday night. Then I will leave the house and go to my father's house while she comes back to our house and stays with them from Thursday night- Sunday morning. A sort of changing of the guards, in the same house. I am opposed to the idea, simply because it feels manipulative but also I feel it could confuse our younger kids. "Mom is coming home to live with us! Is she staying this time? No, she's leaving again! Now Dad's back!" I've told her if she's moving out and going to her dad's house, they could visit there, but SHE is the one leaving us and choosing to dismantle the family.

Does anyone think this living arrangement is unfair?

2) She wants us to talk to the kids tomorrow. Of course she wanted to tell them that mom and dad just "couldnt make it work", but I am refusing this approach. I told her that I wanted the kids, particularly my older ones, to know that Dad still loved mom very much, but that Mom doesn't love dad and doesn't want to work on things.

I suggested she read some things on how to address children on this matter. She's so selfish it's like that never entered her mind. I asked her tonight again if she read anything yet and she said "no". She's had time for all kinds of stuff today. Not that, I guess.

Don't let WW baloney the kids and don't you move out. Let WW move out this way she looses legal standing by abandoning the family.

Treadwell, absolutely not on the "shared custody" thing. Don't agree to anything. What she is trying to do is get your help and cooperation in making it easy for her destroy your family and your marriage. If you cooperate then she will only succeed in doing this. She wants you to be her "friend" so it will be easier for her to destroy your marriage unimpeded. She wants to manipulate you into cooperation, "for the children" of course. [lets not mention that it is not in your childrens best interest for their parents to get divorced]

Why should you ever leave your home just because she wants a separation? I strongly suspect she is having an affair so it is in yours and your childrens best interest to not cooperate with any divorce schemes because her affair won't last that long.

I would also move any large amounts of money and take her off any joint credit cards. Open up another bank account and move your money. She WILL clean you out if you don't watch this.

And DON'T agree to give her money for an apt, etc.

Just tell you have no interest in divorce and won't be cooperating with anything EXCEPT recovery of your marriage. You won't tell the kids anything because as far as you are concerned there won't be a divorce.. Be nice, but be FIRM.

No begging, no pleading, no crying. Be calm and assured.

And then snoop your [censored] off and get the goods. Don't ask if she having an affair. Don't even let on that you suspect. But you must get the goods. Once you get the goods, we can help you save this marriage.

She is hoping you will go along with this so she can move out part time but not harm her legal standing. What she really wants is to move out and conduct her affair but she has found out that the courts view that as abandonment. But this scheme protects her from that.

So, when she moves out, she will suddenly "meet someone new" and act like this was something that happened after she moved.

Do you live in a fault state where you can file on grounds of adultery?

Don't tell the kids anything until you find out the truth. She wants the opportunity to lie to them.

Not agreeing to this scheme will throw a huge wrench in her plans. She will be forced to choose between her affair and the kids.

Thanks ML!

My state is a no-fault state. But the issue of "fitness" could definitely play into custody

The keylogger recorded nothing at all unusual or suspicious in her email or FB. I am suspecting now, that perhaps she has another email account that she uses only at work. In any case, I will keep checking. Any advice on watching her online activity at work? I know it's dicey. But now I'd be willing to do almost anything.

What state are you in? I live in Texas and even though we are a no fault state, you can sue on grounds of adultery. It plays a part on the divorce settlement in custody and property division. So even if you are in a no fault state, you might have a clear advantage in custody, etc.


Did you say you only have one car? Does she drive it? If so, I would slap a GPS on it and put in a voice activated recorder. Can you also watch her office at lunchtime and see if she goes out with anyone?

What about her phone? What type is it and do you have access to the bill? Have you looked in her purse or briefcase for a secret cell phone?

We have one car, I drop her off and pick her up. She almost always calls me during her lunch break (which sometimes may only be 20-30 mins depending on that days schedule)She tells me when she's going to get lunch at the local market and typically calls me when she gets back to her desk to eat it.

I have access to our cell phone bill. Looked at it today, again. Weird. There are long calls to me, her sister and my sister over the past week. That's pretty much it. Not a number on there that I dont know.

I looked in her work bag yesterday and scoured receipts. Nothing.

She spent the night with the family last night. I asked to talk to her briefly this morning. I calmly but very firmly told her:

I could not stop her from making any decision she felt she needed to make, but I would NOT be party to dismantling our family. If she felt she must leave, that is her business, but that I could not in clear conscience act willingly in ANY way that is detrimental to the marriage, our children or their sense of well-being. I told her I will only work in ways that are for the best interest of the marriage and our family-- and trauma is not in the best interest of our family. This includes any scenario where she or I leave the house and live somewhere else.

She got up with her coffee and walked away. I can tell she is conflicted.

The scenario is this: Last year, my wife started to find her niche career after being a stay at home mom for so many years. At almost the same time I was laid off in the recession. The transition was fairly seamless, and I received a generous severance. For the first time in my life, I got to be a stay-at-home dad. After working 12hr days at a desk for years, I finally got to participate in the morning rituals, take the kids to school, take care of our home, pick the kids up, go shopping, cook, help with homework, etc... I can tell you, the house has never been cleaner or more efficient. I enjoy what I do.

The complicated thing is now, my wife works typically till 8PM. The kids see her at bed time. If she leaves, she cannot take care of them. Neither could I support them, if she cut off all funds-- despite the fact that I do freelance and some part time work while the kids are at school/camp. If she had left me three years ago when she first had the affair and I was working 50+ hours a week, the scenario would be completely different. The cards are against her in every respect. To quote the old adage, "It's hard for thee to kick against the gourd"