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One other thing that is really making me wonder is why there is a benefit to exposing an affair to friends & family before talking to your spouse about it first? Actually, I did read in previous posts as to "WHY" to do that, but in my case, I think it will push her more to the OM that much more. Not sure if that tactic will work for me. I would assume I will have to access my own situation since every one is different. Your situation is not different from any other. Exposure is the most powerful weapon you have in saving your marriage. That applies to all marriages that are afflicted by affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure shines the light of reality into the affair and usually kill it. It should be done BEFORE your confront her and DEMAND she end her affair. Here is what Dr Harley says about exposure: " In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery." Once your WW finds out about the exposure, you will have to post how it went. I would be very curious to see if it worked. When the WS finds out about exposure, they are FURIOUS. Always. If you want to find out how it went, go talk to the many people who recovered their marriages by exposing. Dr Harley calls those who don't expose "enablers" on this radio segment: here "It's very difficult to overcome an affair when you become an enabler.
In my judgement exposure would have ended your wife's affair."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I talked to WW last night. It went like this,
We went out for dinner and the tension was high. I struggled through small talk in the restaurant, she was very unresponsive. On the way home I started by telling her that I love her, and want to try to work this out but it is not going to be easy. I told her I have known about her A for the last 8yrs. She asked how I know, I said that I have email and other evidence which proves her whereabouts. I did not go into details of the evidence although she wanted me to. I talked about the fact that the affair was brought on by me avoiding conflict with here and not meeting her emotional needs and she found other ways to fill the needs. WW's biggest concern was about me telling her who I had all talked to about the situation. I stated "I have talked to others and what we discussed was the truth about our marriage". Again, she was very concerned with who I had talked to. I did not reveal who I had exposed to. Should I have??? Then the converstion basically ended with her saying, "do you want me to move out?", I responded with, "you don't need to go anywhere if you don't want to. I do love you and am sorry you are upset.
WW then left for a while and I did not know where she went, but later returned about 9:30. Later we went to bed and she was there by me. WW asked me if I wanted her to go sleep downstairs, I stated "you can if you want to". Soon the TV was turned off and WW began asking about who I had all told and why it was important to me that I had told everyone. "How was exposure going to help our situation". WW asked if I felt better because of exposing, I replied, "no". I explained that I had only told the truth about the status of our marriage. She again questioned me about the evidence and told me that all of my assumptions about the A were just that, assumptions. She was very concerned about what it was that I knew about the OM. WW then went on to explain how everything was my fault and she had lost respect for me years ago. I replied with the fact that I am willing to accept the responsibility for my actions and I can't go back and undo anything. I can only work on me from here forward.
One thing that is bothering me is that while she was trying to get me to tell her who I had exposed to, she stated that maybe she doesn't need those people in her life anymore. WW seemed willing to go on without those people in her life.
WW also asked me if she should start the work of filing for D. I replied "I don't know". Our conversation for the evening pretty much ended with her trying to talk about how the D was going to work out.
I feel rotten this morning think it is going to be a long day.
Thanks to all.
Willy
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She is stonewalling (to get to your info) and deflecting. She is trying to figure out;
#1. How much she needs to confess to. (Fog thinking)
#2. If you are serious- that she can keep up the fantasy (fog)
#3. Cutting people out of her life? Her fantasy about OM (them against the world) FOG.
#4 Talk about D? Simple threat.
she is foggy, foggy and more foggy.
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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One big thing you must do is end her fantasy with a hard dose of reality. You have to get her to understand that divorce is not an option for you. That you will not go down the path of divorce willingly and that you�re not going to make it easy if she chooses that path.
I can�t emphasize to you enough how important this is. You probably think that your situation is unique and that if you don�t go along easily with her you will ruin your chance to reconcile down the road, etc. Let me tell you that it�s a big lie. I believed it when the same lies were fed to me. Once the divorce is done, there is no reconciling for the wayward wife. She will use the divorce as the license to emerge from the shadows, date again, and celebrate being single again.
So make it clear, �I don�t talk divorce. I talk marriage.� Say it incessantly when she brings it up.
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Also add to that that you will fight for custody of the kids. That's a big dose of reality to the fantasty and that if she chooses to go down the path of divorce that you will file on the grounds of adultery and request full custody of your boys.
Odds are low you'll actually get it, but most WW'es assume that you will simply amicably end things, step aside and let her live her life with another man, your stuff, and your kids.
Only mention this stuff if there is no way around the topic. Avoid it, but let her know that going down that path, if she chooses to do so, won't be a cakewalk or easy. It's much easier to save your marriage.
BUT....
Why do you want to stay married? How old are your boys?
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WW's biggest concern was about me telling her who I had all talked to about the situation. I stated "I have talked to others and what we discussed was the truth about our marriage". Again, she was very concerned with who I had talked to. I did not reveal who I had exposed to. Should I have??? Willy, the point of exposure is to expose, so of course she should know now to whom you exposed. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of telling these people? These people should be calling her up and trying to persuade her to end her affair. Everyone should know about the affair. And I would strongly suggest you have a meeting with the OM and tell him you know about the affair and ask him to leave your wife alone. The next step is to DEMAND that she end all contact with her OM. And if she doesn't end all contact, then make plans to separate. I would put the onus back on her and say: I am willing to give you a chance to earn my forgiveness if you end all contact with your your OM and commit to the marriage. But this will end in divorce if you don't end all contact.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Willy, since you have kept exposure a "secret" I feel compelled to ask exactly what you exposed? Did you tell the exposure targets about the affair?
WHY HAVE NONE OF THESE PEOPLE CALLED YOUR WIFE YET? This is very strange and I don't understand why she doesn't know she has been exposed. Most WS's know within an hour they have been exposed.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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WW's biggest concern was about me telling her who I had all talked to about the situation. This is an indicator of how potent exposure would be in killing this affair. Your wife is terrified of exposure which means she knows it will ruin her affair. If you want to save your marriage you are going to have to do the maximum exposure.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Willy, since you have kept exposure a "secret" I feel compelled to ask exactly what you exposed? Did you tell the exposure targets about the affair?
WHY HAVE NONE OF THESE PEOPLE CALLED YOUR WIFE YET? This is very strange and I don't understand why she doesn't know she has been exposed. Most WS's know within an hour they have been exposed. Mel, I guess I didn't know that it was OK to tell WW who I exposed to. I will let her know. The exposure consisted of telling about the affair and what I feel caused it, basically me not meeting her emotional needs. I exposed to her mother, sister, and our stepkids. Those are the most influential people in her life. I also confided in a few close friends, but they most likely won't say anything unless I push them to. I will say, the communication between us today indicates she has gotten a huge dose of reality.
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WHY HAVE NONE OF THESE PEOPLE CALLED YOUR WIFE YET? This is very strange and I don't understand why she doesn't know she has been exposed. Most WS's know within an hour they have been exposed. [/quote]
I had asked them to wait until I had a chance to confront her. They most likely will be talking to WW tonight. I have kept them in the loop of what's going on.
Last edited by Willy66; 08/11/10 01:11 PM.
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Why do you want to stay married? How old are your boys?
HTLD,
I do think we have a chance together. I am not ready to go the D route without exploring the options and fully understanding why.
Twin boys 13
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Willy, Willy, Willy,
STOP!!!! You are waaaaaayyyy too nice and it's apparent that your WW calls the shots in your marriage.
First, understand this one CRITICAL fact--- you did NOT cause your wife to commit adultery. She CHOSE to do it because she has a lack of boundaries and morals. Sure, you're responsible for your part in any marital problems, but so is she, but you are NOT responsible or the cause of her adultery.
Your WW will not respect you until you man up and stand up to her BS. That conversation last night? You should have told her flat out that it doesn't matter who knows and you will stop at nothing to fight for your family.
She needs to realize that the Willy she's been married to all these years has finally got a clue. You won't be disrespected any longer.
I hope that when you do any more exposure you call it like it is. My wife is having an affair. I'm asking for your support and influence to help me save my family. YOU have nothing to be ashamed of.
Your WW is VERY worried now and is likely spinning her story to make you out to be the bad guy. That's why you do all of your exposures at one time... BEFORE she has a chance to spin it.
Nothing says you have to tell her anything about what you know or how you know or who you've told.
Your mantra to her is that you will continue to fight for your family. If she gets irate and hostile, you offer her a cookie. Just imagine a small child throwing a tantrum because they're not getting their way.
Please, it's time to MAN up and become the husband and leader of your family.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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You tell her you exposed her affair to get her to end it.
You tell her you don't want to get divorced, but you will no longer tolerate her affair.
You tell her that you will do whatever it takes to break this affair up including making OM's life he11 and repeat and continued exposure.
You tell her that if she doesn't like it, she can let the door hit her in the butt on the way out.
You let her know that if she chooses OM and divorce, it will not be amicable, and you will fight her tooth and nail for finances and custody. You will not be friends afterwards, and your children will know the truth about the destruction of your marriage.
You show her who is in charge. It's time to man up, stand up for yourself, and take back control of your life, your family, and your marriage.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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[ I also confided in a few close friends, but they most likely won't say anything unless I push them to. Then the entire purpose of exposure has been dashed. The purpose of exposure is to a) expose and b) get influential people to speak to her. Secrecy is what has led to this terrible place, it won't be the solution. If these people do not care enough to reach out to her, than at the very least, OF COURSE your wife should be told about the exposure. That is the point. To expose.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Willy, I would also sit your children down - ALONE - and tell them about her affair. They need to know what the cause of the tension in their home is. If you don't tell them the truth, your wife will tell them lies. Dr. Harley on telling the children: The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. 2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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WW is mostly concerned about me exposing to others before confronting her. How do I respond to that?
TIA
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WW is mostly concerned about me exposing to others before confronting her. How do I respond to that?
TIA She has no right to expect you to keep her dirty secret. Tell her you are not an enabler and everyone should know about her affair. Her "concerns" about being exposed are irrelevant. If she doesn't want to be exposed for behaving badly then she should stop behaving badly.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Willy, you are getting some great advice here. I know it's hard, but you have to emotionally detach a little bit and take charge of your marriage.
Expose to anybody who may have any influence on your WW. You want them to talk to her, whether or not she knows that you have talked to them.
If she asks, tell her who you told and remember this line, "I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage." Stay strong and confident and don't be shaken by her reactions. Remember, she isn't your wife anymore- she is the alien.
-SOL
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Mel,
You are absolutely right, Thanks!
I really have to get over feeling sorry for WW. Thinking back, that is the cause of my problem with CA.
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Willy,
Just curious as how it went the people you exposed to talk to your WW, if they did? Did she get angry?
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