|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,879
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,879 |
y does everyone talk like the A will resume? is it not possible 4 someone to b remorseful & honestly sorry for what they did & never want it to happen again? can the WW or WH not be so sorry & sick for the pain they caused their spouse that they would never put them thru it again? It is VERY common in affair that the person that had the affair will either go out and do it again with someone new or with the same person, why do you think we have been TRYING to tell you TO EXPOSE THIS AFFAIR, and your MARRIAGE WILL NOT work until he has NO CONTACT for LIFE?? Sigh...I think I am done, I'm tired of repeating myself and tired of reading all the same posts here, you don't take us seriously and not taking any advice. Good luck with your marriage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
melody....good point, i am sure it was not comfortable for anyone & i hate that u & others had to go thru something so hard. i do have principles, i guess it is just very hard to wrap my mind around doing all of this so soon while i am trying to repair my own marriage. y is everyone so down on marriage counselors on here when the person who referred me to this site is my marriage counselor & i do not know that my marriage counselor would be against me telling the OW's husband, i have not asked him but i do know that he is big on the NC & agrees w/that. i explained about my husbands work situation, that he no longer works w/her & soon will NEVER have to see her again & he thought that i was making the right decision--i realize that is just his advice but i cannot take the advice of everyone i talk to or i would be doing all kinds of things. i may not re-act to your advice the way u want me to but i promise u that i am listening & taking it all in & will act on alot of it, i just have alot of questions & need to think things out 1st then act on them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
i hate that u give up so easily sapphire b/c i am taking all of u very seriously but instead of answering my questions that u relisted u told me what is VERY common in an affair & i agree with u & it could happen to me again but is what i asked possible? to me they r not the same old post, i have gotten alot out of what everyone has been telling me & if u would read all of my post u would see that they r different & i need advice just like everyone else & just b/c i do not say i will do as u say the 1st time u say it does not mean that i am not listening & u may help me see what i need to do. i am in a hard boat just like everyone on here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
y is everyone so down on marriage counselors on here when the person who referred me to this site is my marriage counselor & i do not know that my marriage counselor would be against me telling the OW's husband, . 30, the advice we are giving you is from Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist with 35+ years experience saving marriages. *HE* advises always telling the OP's spouse immediately. He is immensely qualified. There is absolutely no rationale for not telling an OP's spouse outside of potential violence. [and even in those cases the OP's spouse must be told] So anyone who gives you advice counter to that is giving you BAD ADVICE. I am not saying that your counselor is bad, but if he tells you not to expose, he is probably not a good counselor who understands infidelity. Not to mention the fact it is immoral to not tell this man what your H has done to him. Telling your H's victim the truth will not harm your recovery, it will HELP IT. The affair is to be exposed to the OP's spouse as soon as possible.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,879
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,879 |
but is what i asked possible? I know this from experience, wheels (my husband) did not expose my first EA, and I was very remorseful, told him I will do ANYTHING to fix our marriage, but guess what happened? Within 2 months I found another EA. Well, wheels became smarter this time and exposed my affair killing it instantly! So no matter how remorseful I was, and wanting to change and fix my marriage didn't matter, WS's have to be exposed or else they WILL do it AGAIN!! Even if it's not right now, but one year, two years? Yes I bet you anything you will be back here again if you do no expose.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
30feeling, I would print this out and take it to your counselor and pastor and let them know that exposure to the OP's spouse is Dr Harley's position: This week, again I�ll be taking a question from the Forum to help clear up a conflict regarding one of my common recommendations about when to expose an affair. The issue of exposure comes up when a betrayed spouse has first learned about the affair. Should it be exposed to others, or kept secret? I generally recommend exposure. When should it be exposed? I usually recommend that it be exposed immediately. To whom should it be exposed? I recommend that family, friends, children, clergy, and especially, the lover�s spouse be informed. Exposure in the workplace depends on several factors. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449 |
y does everyone talk like the A will resume? is it not possible 4 someone to b remorseful & honestly sorry for what they did & never want it to happen again? can the WW or WH not be so sorry & sick for the pain they caused their spouse that they would never put them thru it again? Like we said, because many of us have experienced it firsthand. And because we have seen it here on the boards over and over and over again. No exposure = VERY HIGH risk of A resuming
Affairees still have contact = VERY VERY HIGH risk of A reigniting. You have both working against you which is the equivalent of watch a train wreck. It is heartbreaking to see people come on here, ignore the advice, and then come back later and say: "You were right, I should have exposed. I should have listened." Why else would we be on here trying to help people? We have nothing better to do with our time? No. We are hoping to save you even more pain and anguish. There is a FALSE RECOVERY thread that was bumped today. If your read it, you may better understand how often the A restarts. Not exposing to OWH is something you can do right now to help your M. Not to mention, when you do the RIGHT thing...you will always land on two feet. It's win-win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,986
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,986 |
30, you're basing everything on your feelings about what you should do and not do. I posted this to someone else yesterday and it may apply to you.
One thing about MB is that is it counter-intuitive. What we would NORMALLY do when confronted with adultery is NOT how MB works-- and it does work. Don't rely on your "feelings" to guide you on the right way to handle this. Get a plan. MB has the best PLAN for saving your marriage after adultery.
Have your ordered "Surviving an Affair" yet? That, posting here, and getting counseling from the MB coaching center will get you through to the other side.
You have received some EXCELLENT advice so far and continue to argue about doing things your way. Go ahead. See where that gets you. I for one did not have MB when I was dealing with this and it took me MONTHS longer than it should have to get through this. In fact, I almost sabotaged my own recovery by trying to do things my way and listening to the wrong people.
Your marriage, your choice. It'll be sad if your marriage fails and you chose not to take advantage of all the great advice you're getting.
Oh, and telling other BSs here that they sound bitter? That couldn't be further from the truth. The people advising you so far have ALL recovered or are recovering from adultery in their marriage. By the way, "Recovery" doesn't always mean recovery of the marriage.
There ARE other sites where they will hold your hand and tell you "there there" but they don't have a CLUE how to get past it.
Good luck to ya!
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222 |
i understand....bad idea, i will not even go there then.
i do not feel lucky @ all, just the opposite so now i would not want to pull the trigger. as far as the contact w/the OW, it is so little & they do not speak to each other & they r in a room full of people & as i said b4 she is the 1st 1 to leave after the meeting & these meetings r almost over & he will never see or talk to her EVER again. i know NC means just that NONE & my H said he would drop out of this class but it is almost over so i did not want him to do that b/c these classes benefit our needs as a family too. when the A was going on they worked together in the same building. as i told my H, if he still wanted her, he can have her b/c i am not here to fight over him....i am fighting for our marriage to be repaired.
i need to ask some more questions on ya'lls advice. y does everyone talk like the A will resume? is it not possible 4 someone to b remorseful & honestly sorry for what they did & never want it to happen again? can the WW or WH not be so sorry & sick for the pain they caused their spouse that they would never put them thru it again? Just go ask Chrisner what a brief passing encounter between his WW and OM (who worked for the same company at separate locations) at company meeting did to his marriage. He had killed the affair, his WW and OM hadn't had contact in a couple months, and then that started it up again. Chrisner has now been divorced 3 years, and his xWW is still living w/ the OM (even though he's smart enough not to marry her). ALL CONTACT IS BAD, AND SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It's like playing with fire, you might get burned. Just seeing the OP will bring back the feelings and if it doesn't reignite the affair, it will still cause problems in your marriage because he'll be thinking about the OW and not you.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
once again let me please say that i agree w/all of u....all contact is bad & there should be NC & the OW's husband should know--i am not trying to argue those points w/any of u. i am listening to all of the advice that ya'll r giving & i need it & i appreciate it & on top of that i already know that the NC thing is a done deal--i talked w/my husband last night. as far as telling the OW's husband can i please ask this & get an answer this w/out ya'll saying that i am not listening, I AM-I SWEAR, i know my situation is no different from any of ya'lls but i know 1st hand that this OW is physcho & my husband's job is the only income that me & my 4 kids have so please understand when i say that if i call him that i am TERRIFIED of what this crazy OW or OW's husband will do that could cause my H to lose his job. i am NOT saying that my M does not come 1st b/c that is ALL i am considered with but u have to remember i have 4 young kids who did not ask for this to happen to them & i want to protect them & part of that means keeping a roof over their heads & food in their mouths.
i do not anyone to hold my hand & tell me "there-there" but just b/c i do not jump on your advice the second u give it to me does not mean i think your wrong or that i'm not listening....that is the whole point of this forum & ya'll being here to talk people thru this so please try to understand b/c so many of u have been on this end & i need help but alot of this is hard to take in sometimes so me saying some of u sound bitter is only what i see when u come back with harsh or sarcastic comments. i can handle brutal honesty--all of those comments r fine & very appreciated but as most of u have been thru,i am going thru alot right now so yes i want & need your advice but i also need u to listen to what i am saying too.
i have been reading so many other threads & i need to also ask y everyone is so against the WW or WH reading all of this or y talking to your WW or WH about all of this is bad? b/c coming from my life all of this really helped my H & helped me & my H talk about things & make some MAJOR progress.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,879
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,879 |
OK, so what if your situation was reversed? What if the OWH new about the affair and you didn't? And he was afraid to tell you because his wife told him "If you tell her then her husband will get all kinds of crazy!"
So he decides NOT to tell you, now lets go 5 years down the road, your husband comes home and say "I love you, but not in love with you and I want a divorce" you have NO CLUE what brought this on, and you go through the divorce anyway, then after the divorce you find out that your husband is already living with some WOMAN that you either knew or just met, and the LIGHT BULB goes on!
If you had the information that your husband was cheating on you would you have handled things differently? To try to save your marriage? To have an open and honest relationship with your husband?
Do you honestly will sit here and ask us to explain to you WHY it is soo important to tell the OWH?
I have another example, you are sitting in your car waiting to pick up your friend, across the street you see your neighbor's car break into, you see this man and you know exactly what he looks like. He steels the car right in front of you with out even knowing you are there.
Would you A: Go to the police and give them the description
OR
B: Not tell anyone?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I AM-I SWEAR, i know my situation is no different from any of ya'lls but i know 1st hand that this OW is physcho & my husband's job is the only income that me & my 4 kids have so please understand when i say that if i call him that i am TERRIFIED of what this crazy OW or OW's husband will do that could cause my H to lose his job. i am NOT saying that my M does not come 1st b/c that is ALL i am considered with but u have to remember i have 4 young kids who did not ask for this to happen to them & i want to protect them & part of that means keeping a roof over their heads & food in their mouths. First off, if your H loses his job it will because of his affair, not because of anything his victims do. And Secondly, you HAVE NO IDEA what he will do, so manufacturing worse case scenarios is just a distraction and a way to avoid conflict. He will probably less to go crazy if you call him yourself than if he finds out on his own. AND YES HE WILL FIND OUT. It is not a matter of IF but WHEN. If you tell him yourself, he will much less likely to go crazy when he knows how it will effect you and your kids. He will even be grateful to you and less likely to do anything to cause you harm. By NOT telling him yourself, you increase the odds that something bad will happen. ok, next excuse.........
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
sapphire, i understand your examples & agree w/them but i thought i might need to let u know that my H is not the one who told me that the OW was psycho or that the OW's husband might go crazy--this is coming from me b/c i had been talking to the OW on & off for 2 months, me not my H. I know for a fact that she is crazy & I know that her husband is violent & i have to protect my family 1st-true or not true? i am not trying to make excuses for my H or myself or anyone, all i want is for someone to listen to me & what i am saying & help me understand "how to deal". i get the point that in 5 years he could do it again & i could be right back here & i PRAY that does not happen but there is a time where u have to just give it to GOD & trust that your spouse is remorseful & sorry & will not do it again....does this mean i trust my H-NO, i still check up on EVERYTHING EVERYDAY but that does not mean that if i decide that to tell the OW's husband right now that my H will cheat again for that reason only.
melody, i never said if my H lost his job it would be b/c of the victim--i was simply trying to tell u that i have 4 children that r innocent in all of this & their needs r very important.
so to let u know...IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE--THIS IS MY LIFE so instead of being harsh to me someone who needs u & your help, y not use your experience to guide me & by guide me, i do want your advice but let me talk it thru w/u & others instead of getting mad b/c i do not do as u say i should the 1st time u say it b/c i know that u r right & i know that u know exactly what u r talking about. once again i know he NEEDS & DESERVES to know but incase u 4got i am a victim here too. even my H agrees with u & has read all of this which u advise against but yet he agrees w/u on the NC & telling the OW's husband. not all WH & WW are the same & not all of us who have been betrayed r the same b/c their r so many on here who have been cheated on multiple times & they stay & keep trying to work it out---me, no-way if my H ever so much as speaks to her again, i am gone & if he was to ever have another affair, i am gone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
Here is a classic *notable post* written by another MBer
Star*Fish
It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.
Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear
Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".
There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.
MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.
You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.
Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.
If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.
Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.
Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.
Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.
Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.
And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere. Someday ... today? ASK yourself this key question: "What would I do if I were not afraid?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 634
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 634 |
Dr. Harley has stated that there is a 'very narrow path to recovery from infidelity'.
This path is an extreme hike. It's a long journey and it's an uphill climb. There will be rocks and tree limbs along the way to climb over. There are high cliffs to traverse. It's extremely difficult, scary and exhausting. It takes courage, determination and will-power to stay on this path.
Many, many others have started off on this path before you and just like you, have seen an easier path off to the side. It looks like the climb isn't so steep. There are less obstacles in the way. There is less of a chance of falling. It isn't quite so narrow. So, they take off down that path instead.
You know where they end up? They end up divorced or even worse, in a bad marriage that continues on for years and years with a high chance of recurring infidelity.
NC for life and exposure are both parts of that 'narrow path'. They are huge and difficult rocks that you must have the courage to climb rather then seeking out the 'easier' path.
You are at the fork in the road. You can choose which path to travel down. You already have one foot firmly planted on the 'easier' path. The great folks here are trying to get you to pull that foot back and start down the narrow more difficult path instead.
Which will it be? Choose wisely.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
sapphire, i understand your examples & agree w/them but i thought i might need to let u know that my H is not the one who told me that the OW was psycho or that the OW's husband might go crazy--this is coming from me b/c i had been talking to the OW on & off for 2 months, me not my H. I know for a fact that she is crazy & I know that her husband is violent & i have to protect my family 1st-true or not true? You must be kidding me? You took the word of a liar? This is CLASSIC wayward wife behavior to lie about her "violent husband." It achieves several purposes: a) it panders sympathy b) in some bizarre twist of logic, the OW believes her adultery is justified if people believe her H is "abusive" - "my H is abusive therefore I am entitled to commit adutlery" c) IT EFFECTIVELY MANIPULATES OTHERS FROM EXPOSING HER AFFAIR TO HER HUSBAND. In your case it has worked. She has manipulated you into keeping her secret. This makes it much easier for her to continue to pursue your husband. But ask yourself this: if she is not worried enough about her "violent husband" to not have an affair, then WHY ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT IT? She knows him better than you do. If she is not worried about it, it makes no sense that you would be too. Better yet, why not call the police station and ask for the reports of domestic violence by her H? That should be easy enough to verify. ok, next excuse..............
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 16
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 16 |
I believe her concern for her WH's job to be legitimate and not just an excuse to not take your advice to disclose the affair to the OW's husband. Regardless of "why" he would lose his job there would still be nothing to gain from that loss. It actually would only make a disastrous situation worse. Their marriage does not need any more damage let alone one that severe.
No one has answered her 2 significant questions. 1) She wants to know how to relieve her pain and eventually get past this and move on with their future. 2) She has also asked if it is possible for a WH OR WW to simply feel remorseful enough to never be unfaithful again. While most have responded that the slightest contact with the other person is "highly risking resumption of affair or another affair" that suggests there is a possibility an affair will not re-occur, however slight that possibility is. So, has anyone experienced full marital recovery, with no further affair(s), following an affair despite some contact with the other person?
Devil's advocate here. I would be interested in reading direct answers to those questions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 533
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 533 |
If he is so violent then contact the police, or are you sure he is violent. My wife said she was afraid of me physically when she was in her affair. I scoff at the thought that I could even have a hint of violence in my body. I have never ever struck my wife out of anger. I just slap her on the butt and smile, maybe that is violent in her book.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449 |
No one has answered her 2 significant questions. 1) She wants to know how to relieve her pain and eventually get past this and move on with their future. 2) She has also asked if it is possible for a WH OR WW to simply feel remorseful enough to never be unfaithful again. I believe I answered this pretty early on that she will be triggered each time he goes to work. I also believed I indicated my H was very remorseful...but it didn't stop him from resuming contact. Sure, have YOU read Dr Harley's thoughts on NC, including how it affects the BS?? These quotes were all posted here for feeling and they all adress the above questions. ?? The false recovery thread that feeling was directed to also has stories that address these questions as well.
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
162
guests, and
61
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,622
Posts2,323,491
Members71,964
| |
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|
