P.S. I wanted to share some facts/quotes I found at an awesome website www.enough.org (mostly in regards to internet pornography, something that did not exist until recent years). I believe they all support the topic of this thread: "Porn, the 21st Century PLAGUE."

***An FBI survey of serial killers found that 81% said that hard-core pornography was their "highest sexual interest" (R. Hazlewood, "The Men Who Murdered," FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, August 1985.)

***11/98 - 11-year-old Josh had been looking at graphic violent porn on the Internet for 20 minutes immediately before stabbing 8-year-old Maddie Clifton to death. (Dangerous Access, 2000)

***6/29/98 - 13-year-old (boy) was in the Phoenix Burton Barr Library viewing porn on the Internet. He followed a 4-year-old into the bathroom and asked the younger boy to give him oral sex. (Dangerous Access, 2000)

***More than 20,000 images of child pornography are posted on the Internet every week (National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, 10/8/03).

***More babies and toddlers are appearing on the net and the abuse is getting worse. It is more torturous and sadistic than it was before. The typical age of children is between six and 12, but the profile is getting younger (Prof. Max Taylor, Combating Paedophile Information Networks in Europe, March 2003).

***Approximately 20 new children appear on the porn sites every month - many kidnapped or sold into sex (Combating Paedophile Information Networks in Europe, March 2003).

***Nine out of 10 children aged between eight and 16 have viewed pornography on the Internet. In most cases, the sex sites were accessed unintentionally when a child, often in the process of doing homework, used a seemingly innocent sounding word to search for information or pictures. (London School of Economics January 2002)

***26 popular children's characters, such as Pokemon, My Little Pony and Action Man, revealed thousands of links to porn sites. 30% were hard-core. (Envisional 2000)

***At least 200,000 Internet users are hooked on porn sites, X-rated chat rooms or other sexual materials online. (MSNBC/Stanford/Duquesne Study, Associated Press Online, 2/29/2000)

***25 million Americans visit cyber-sex sites between 1-10 hours per week. Another 4.7 million in excess of 11 hours per week. (MSNBC/Stanford/Duquesne Study, Washington Times, 1/26/2000)

***"More than 80 percent of women who have this addiction take it offline," says Marnie Ferree. "Women, far more than men, are likely to act out their behaviors in real life, such as having multiple partners, casual sex, or affairs (Today's Christian Woman, September/October 2003).

***The adult-film industry is bigger than ever, making some 6,000 movies a year and grossing more than $4 billion - roughly as much as the National Football League (New York Post, Russell Scott Smith, 9/25/03).

***The cybersex industry generates approximately $1 billion annually and is expected to grow to $5-7 billion over the next 5 years, barring unforeseen change (National Research Council Report, 2002).

***Cyber-sex is the crack cocaine of sexual addiction. (Dr. Robert Weiss, Sexual Recovery Institute, Washington Times 1/26/2000)

***Cyber-sex reinforces and normalizes sexual disorders. (Dr. Robert Weiss, Sexual Recovery Institute, Washington Times 1/26/2000)

***Cyber-sex is a public health hazard exploding because very few are recognizing it as such or taking it seriously. (MSNBC/Stanford/Duquesne Study; Associated Press Online, 2/29/2000)

<small>[ January 25, 2004, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

LoveMyEx - the facts don't lie. I see it in my job quite regularly. The porn use rarely diminishes but more often than not becomes more of a draw. I just tell people that like the alcoholic, if you never take that first drink you can't become addicted. Easier said than done in this "enlightened" information age.

HPK...for the record, my IC said the same thing when I saw her last Friday. She says they're seeing more and more profound marital dysfunction related to porn use, especially porn use that began in the spouse's adolescence. Her phrase was that it's hard to "normalize" a marriage when porn is in the mix, in any percentage.
jo

Ah, facts and statistics -- they never lie.

I don't have the time and inclination to review all of these things case by case, but the one that jumped out at me first was this one:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LoveMyEx:
<strong>***An FBI survey of serial killers found that 81% said that hard-core pornography was their "highest sexual interest" (R. Hazlewood, "The Men Who Murdered," FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, August 1985.)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Indeed, an interesting statistic, but useless without some other statistics. As I apply some critical thinking to this one, I have to ask how many men who are not serial killers have a high sexual interest in pornography.

Finding statistics to fill in and provide meaning for this one contextully naked statistic is tough, but I ran across this article, which points to surveys of evangelical pastors and Promise Keepers in which 50% admit to viewing porn at various times.

Given some context, it seems to me that the difference between the serial sinners and the serial killers is a matter of some degree.

My conclusion is that pornography itself is not the determining factor in behavior. In fact I would say that the correlation probably works in the opposite direction -- those who are going to be serial killers are more likely to get into pornography than those who are into pornography are likely to become serial killers.

We are bombarded with statistics and facts all the time. We should all take some care to evaluate what the statistics and facts really do (and more importantly don't) tell us about something.

i prefer to stick to relating it to your own personal relationship.......the possible problems of the loss intimacy and trust that seems to follow porn around.

i like to think that most people that come to this board and complain about it will soon realize it is a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed.......and hopefully not an addiction.

it surely is a pandoras box.
there should be no boxes like that in a marriage.

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

DP

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

I guess no one is going to address the equity issue of porn here.

Advocates of men using porn state that men want guiltless self-sex and their hypersensitive wives shouldn't take this personally.

Yet the traditional marital convenants preclude sex outside of the marriage relationship - that would include self-sex.

It's hard work to please your spouse, for certain, especially after you've been married for a while and a few lovebusters have eroded the marital love bank. Fantasizing, self-stimulation, etc. makes it easy to "get off", but then, you have no motivation to work for fulfillment with your spouse.

Now, another issue that hasn't been fully developed yet in this discussion - the concept of EGO.

What does porn do to a woman's ego and self-image? Completely undermines it, given enough time and attention from her husband toward porn. She doesn't measure up. Very few women on this board have sufficient self-esteem to handle aging combined with her husband's immature relationship with porn.

What does porn do to a man's ego? Well, if he's lost in the fantasy of it all, the woman in those pictures sure wants to please him, but it's not real. Once the fantasy fades, he recognizes he's caught in a trap that makes him feel about as mature and manly as a pimple-faced 9th grade boy, complete with the squeeky voice. He can't please a real woman that way, because he hasn't cared to refine his technique or his attractiveness to a real woman. He's caught in a selfish demand trap. And if his ego isn't strong enough to deal with this glimpse into his REAL life, he will again and again escape into the fantasy world, looking for the more convincing fix to take away his pain.

Ego wise, there is little as damaging as porn, because sex is so intimate, so personal and porn isn't intimate. It's an intimate fraud!

Kayla,

that's what I want to discuss.
it's THOSE issues that i would love to talk more about.
i would love to have an honest discussion about how porn really does nothing to build anyones (man or woman)confidence in a real RELATIONSHIP........and that couple SHOULD get those facts out on the table and DEAL w/ it ASAP.

OPEN that frickin' Pandoras Box!!

and i have noticed that nobody answered your questions and addressed them.....and really I wish someone would.

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

Nelly, The reason no one has addressed the questions I posed is that they can't and still remain entrenched in their position that porn is harmless fun for the man.

The fact that Scrum so articulately stated the case for porn in a way that makes equity visibly impossible, his quote bears repeating:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Scrum:
They want sexual fulfillment without worrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please you, without the same old same old. .....

Most of all husbands like to feel desired and wanted by their wives.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, porn advocates, tell me how women get their equal share of this self-appointed male privilege with porn as part of the equation???????

I dare you. I double-dog dare you!

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

and i triple dog dare them! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

and i say that in a very nice and sincere way, guys. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
honestly.....i do not think men and women are all that different when it comes to sex.

we just need to peel away the pre-conceived perceptions and COMMUNICATE about sex and ourselves better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Scrum:
I think a primary mistake is for women to take it personally. .......
They want sexual fulfillment without worrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please you, without the same old same old. .....
Most of all husbands like to feel desired and wanted by their wives.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, porn advocates, tell me how women get the flip side of this self-appointed male privilege with porn as part of the equation???????</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't call myself a porn advocate at all, but I think the reason you aren't getting responses is because one poster wrote this and I doubt any others really agree. It's poorly stated, very one-sided and selfish. I doubt other porn advocates agree with the way Scrum wrote this. Perhaps you haven't heard from Scrum because you caught him and destroyed his argument...this might be why he hasn't returned to the thread.

I think it is clear that anyone who is so routinely focused on themselves during sex, specifically not wanted to worry about their partner's satisfaction, is going to have intimacy issues...whether male or female.
I think porn plays a big role in this. Using porn (unless done as a couple) is very one-sided and selfish and is going to affect intimacy one way or another. But, when one person wants more sex than the other partner is wanting to share, using porn is the easiest and most convenient way to fill in the gap. I'm not saying people should do this, but I can see why they do.

Smile

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SmileADay:
<strong> [QUOTE]
I think the reason you aren't getting responses is because one poster wrote this and I doubt any others really agree. It's poorly stated, very one-sided and selfish. I doubt other porn advocates agree with the way Scrum wrote this. Perhaps you haven't heard from Scrum because you caught him and destroyed his argument...this might be why he hasn't returned to the thread.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Smile, I just haven't seen anybody who takes the position that porn is harmless refute that he's the only one who sees it this way. I think he just articulated the undercurrent of why men don't, can't, won't POJA on porn. Some are addicted. Some think the woman is over-the-top hypersensitive and should give it up.

Then there are the situations you mention - where the woman is selfishly withholding herself from an honest-to-goodness caring, loving husband. But in this case, turning to porn doesn't help the situation. It makes the man feel more empty and alone than if he'd been celibate visually. It brings to clear focus all the gaps and dissatisfaction he has with his marriage. It's a no-win situation.

Smile said,

"when 1 partner wants sex more than the other is willing to share, porn becomes the easiest way to fill the gap."

i don't exactly advocate that either.....but can completely UNDERSTAND it.
especially, for a guy who has masturbated to porn since he was 12ish.....and it has become quite an enjoyable habit. and if you read the right material..very expected and acceptable.

but, if you are hiding that behaviour or justifying it...there is a problem w/ the intimacy in your marriage.

in my situation.i was shocked to find out my husband was interested in more sex....i was interested in more sex....better sex. i tried to iniate conversations about it, but he was not comfortable discussing it.
porn was an EASY option.
and a long time habit.
but, he was not going to open that pandoras box either.
and he assumed that he understood me and my sexuality....or rather..he choose not to open that pandoras box either. too scary for him.
because of this, our marriage suffered and so did our sex lifes.


by the way....how in any way is porn considered SF??

what is so fulfilling about it? sex w/ yourself...w/o any intimacy or connection?
it's just about an orgasm and a fantasy.

i guess a fantasy could be somewhat fulfilling once in awhile..
at the expense of denying your spouse some true intimacy?

after some point, does it feel like a big empy pit of nothing.......when you realize that is you are sitting there w/ yourself again?

and your spouse is upsatairs.....doing WHAT??

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> I guess no one is going to address the equity issue of porn here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that's a little snide since I did try to address the equity issue a while back. Just call me "no one."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong>Advocates of men using porn state that men want guiltless self-sex and their hypersensitive wives shouldn't take this personally.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't exactly consider myself an advocate of men using porn. That suggests I'm rather in favor of the practice even if I would agree that it is not a preferable activity...

I do maintain that one should not take it personally when ones spouse pursues interests that are not shared. The situation is not so black and white when it comes to SF and dissimilar interests, I think the general principle still applies.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> Yet the traditional marital convenants preclude sex outside of the marriage relationship - that would include self-sex.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your interpretation. And again, I say if one spouse doesn't have an interest in sex, why should the other abstain. I think the traditional marriage vow (taken from scripture too, I think) reads "forsaking all others." Fine. No "others." I think I would be a pretty sad character if I forsake myself...

Here starts the chickenn or the egg thing again:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> It's hard work to please your spouse, for certain, especially after you've been married for a while and a few lovebusters have eroded the marital love bank. Fantasizing, self-stimulation, etc. makes it easy to "get off", but then, you have no motivation to work for fulfillment with your spouse.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which came first? Did porn steal the motivation or did the LBs steal the motivation?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> Now, another issue that hasn't been fully developed yet in this discussion - the concept of EGO.

What does porn do to a woman's ego and self-image? Completely undermines it, given enough time and attention from her husband toward porn. She doesn't measure up. Very few women on this board have sufficient self-esteem to handle aging combined with her husband's immature relationship with porn.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, who's problem is it that so few women have good self-esteem? And again... which came first? Couuld it be that a woman's terrible self-esteem makes it impossible to fulfill her in any way much less to the point where she is an enthusiastic partner in SF?

Further, you are lumping everything together here. My W is BBW. I can understand where she would be intimidated and undermined if I sought and idolized the "ideal" woman typically projected by Hollywood and the porn business. How would it be an assault on my W's self-esteem if she knows I have like to watch BBW porn? What's she going to think? "I don't measure up to those women in the video... he likes them better because they're fatter than I am."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> What does porn do to a man's ego? Well, if he's lost in the fantasy of it all, the woman in those pictures sure wants to please him, but it's not real. Once the fantasy fades, he recognizes he's caught in a trap that makes him feel about as mature and manly as a pimple-faced 9th grade boy, complete with the squeeky voice. He can't please a real woman that way, because he hasn't cared to refine his technique or his attractiveness to a real woman. He's caught in a selfish demand trap. And if his ego isn't strong enough to deal with this glimpse into his REAL life, he will again and again escape into the fantasy world, looking for the more convincing fix to take away his pain.

Ego wise, there is little as damaging as porn, because sex is so intimate, so personal and porn isn't intimate. It's an intimate fraud! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you've described the pathological addictive scenario here. I know you're stuck on seeing it this way and generalizing or projecting on everyone else. And still again I say -- was the man's ego fragile before he went for the porn or was the ego destroyed by the porn. I think it can be a vicious cycle for those who start out with a weak ego, but I don't see that porn always the source of the problem. It can be a symptom rather than the disease itself.

And let's not start talking about fraudulent intimacy... You know there are those here whose spouses fraudulently married with little intent to hold up their end of the intimacy equation. Now there's a blow to one's ego!

-No One

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then there are the situations you mention - where the woman is selfishly withholding herself from an honest-to-goodness caring, loving husband. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wasn't even referring to that so much as someone in my situation. I'm with a 26 year old male who has always looked at porn. He's got the drive to have sex 3 times every day...I don't. I love having sex with him and do not withhold; however, if I'm really tired or preoccupied, I might turn him down with the promise to make it up to him later.
The problem we have is we are both extremely active. We work out together during lunch and both play sports after work. When we get home, we are too hungry for sex. After dinner, we are too full for sex. After dinner settles, one or both of us (usually me) are too tired for sex. Our solution was to try and have sex at weird times (we've found that morning sex is a great way to start the day but neither of us have the energy to initiate first thing in the morning before work). While I don't encourage masturbation alone, if we end up going several days without sex, and his drive is driving him batty, I'm not offended if he does his thing on his own. I'd prefer if he did it without the visual aid, but as long as he's keeping me happy, it's not worth the battle which would likely not solve the problem (us making time for sex and him getting enough).
So, I don't withhold, but I don't have as high of a sex drive. Sex every other day is about right for me (with a four day intermission once a month), but for him it is at least once a day.

So, what would you recommend in our situation?
Thanks,
Smile

Dilbert said,

"i don't always see porn as the source of the problem"

it's not. it's not.
i completely agree w/ you. that is what needs to be discussed.
espcially if there is an intimacy or trust problem w/in the marriage.

but, if a spouse is sneeking it...that's something they should think about.......why do i keep coming back to this and HOW is it helping (or not) my relationship??


and.as far as the self esteem goes?
i agree....women tend to compare and feel like they can't measure up. not just in looks or body....but in sexual performance too!

and......so, do guys.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">by the way....how in any way is porn considered SF??
what is so fulfilling about it? sex w/ yourself...w/o any intimacy or connection?
it's just about an orgasm and a fantasy.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Nelly...I think this is precisely why men and women are so different when it comes to sex. Men can get satisfaction from sex without any intimacy or connection while most women cannot. Porn can actually provide SF for men. Most men spend years at a time with a sex drive that screws with their head but no woman to please them, and so they find satisfaction from their hand and pictures of some hotties.
When a boy hits puberty and his sex drive kicks in, he really doesn't know what to do with himself. He masturbates at least once a day and I think some boys will do it 2-4 times a day...just for the release, just for the sensation, not because they think their hand is beautiful. That kind of sexual intensity doesn't hit women until much later in their lives when they are usually married or at least in an intimate relationship. That's a BIG difference and one that I believe explains why men can get SF with a dirty mag and ol' righty.

Smile

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nelly:
<strong>by the way....how in any way is porn considered SF??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think it really is. Porn/masturbation in the framework of SF is really more about release, habits, and escape.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nelly:
<strong>what is so fulfilling about it? sex w/ yourself...w/o any intimacy or connection?
it's just about an orgasm and a fantasy.

i guess a fantasy could be somewhat fulfilling once in awhile..
at the expense of denying your spouse some true intimacy?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's a really good phrase in there that is probably key in more than one way "some true intimacy."

This reminded me to consider that intimacy is not necessarily sexual. By wandering off into a fantasy or other sexual activity, a spouse may miss an opportunity to increase intimacy via meeting nonsexual ENs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nelly:
<strong>after some point, does it feel like a big empy pit of nothing.......when you realize that is you are sitting there w/ yourself again?

and your spouse is upsatairs.....doing WHAT?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course the flipside to missing opportunities to meet ENs is that one's spouse may be "upstairs" enjoying their second or third hour of sleep.

I think it does feel like a big empty pit of nothing when you realize that the person sleeping upstairs didn't want to be intimate in any way at all... again.

Hi Smile,

i don't know waht to say about your situation.....i still can't imagine being able to have such frank conversations about sex w/ my H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
not to mention porn.


my situation is very different than yours.

H snuck porn since he was 12ish.....hid from his mother....hiding it from me was just the next step in what he considered normal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

we had sex regularly since we started dating....i was ALWAYS open to more sex, better sex......conversations w/ him about sex.

he never realized this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .....just kept sneeking his porn and justifying that that is what all guys do.
it's always been that way.
he told me he never thought about me and what i might be doing.....that it was all about him.

the few times he ever said anything to me about our sex life.....were positive.
he was happy w/ our sex life...we had sex 3-4 times a week atleast.
he told me he was pleased and happy w/ that.....always heard guys complaining about going weeks w/o.

untill, i caught him w/ porn a few years ago and realized he'd been downloading for awhile...then it became 'MY FAULT" because i wasn't enthusiastic enough etc.

i figured he looked at a friends magazine once in awhile if itwas there.
i figured he came across it online.


i was shocked when he told me he had been buying it and hiding it since we were married......and sneeking out to movies when he told me he was working late.
there is probobly more........we have only discussed it thus far.


point is..he never felt he could have talked to me about wanting more sex.... or what i wanted(and i wanted MORE)........ he just kept feeding his habit the easy way.
and reading info that justified it.

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

Dilbert, no disrespect. You still haven't addressed the equity directly. Do you believe that women want the same things Scrum said that men want that they get out of turning to porn.

Are we doomed to stay stuck on the adversarial bent - your focus is on the neglectful, deceitful spouse who's withholding SF. My focus is on the compulsive immature behavior where a husband who has a woman who wants to meet their need for SF habitually and deceitfully turns to porn, despite POJA (or avoids POJA altogether)..

Please don't focus on the red herring here of our obvious two different focuses.

If you want credit for having addressed my question, please address the issue of equity directly. Set aside your bent that the only men who won't follow POJA in regard to porn are being unduly deprived of SF and that their wives misled them about their interests and capacities to fulfill that need. I'm not talking about those men; I'm talking about men like GetLoveBack's husband. I'm talking about many, many women here who have shared how hurtful their husband's involvement in porn is to them. These are not women withholding SF from their husbands.

So address the question, please! Do you agree or dispute Scrum's statement of
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think a primary mistake is for women to take it personally. .......
They want sexual fulfillment without worrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please you, without the same old same old. .....
Most of all husbands like to feel desired and wanted by their wives.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you agree, do you see the inherent conflict with women having the same SF rights when porn is involved in the marriage?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOMEN want sexual fulfillment without worrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please you, without the same old same old. .....
Most of all wives like to feel desired and wanted by their husbands.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">