Three years ago, when the excrement hit the fan, she cataloged the entire process for me in writing, including dates, events, etc... I'm an analytical person and this was incredibly helpful at the outset. Phone records, emails and bank statements corroborated her account.

She always took full accountability, never blamed me or her lousy friends-- she always owned the affair 100% and expressed sorrow. We started counseling within days of DDday and continued 2-3 times a week for about two months, then went to once a week. We did this for a year. She agreed to never contact the OM ever again-- and never did to my knowledge. Again, she broke up with him in disgust before I ever found out. She made her daily schedule open to me and always told me of her whereabouts. We shared an email account. We both joined Facebook a year after the affair and she privacy blocked all parties even connected with the affair. I did not-- for purposes of keeping an eye on them. We began putting greater priority on our marriage, sharing more recreational activities and having a date night, NO MATTER WHAT, every week since week two after DDAY. Kissing, romance, foreplay, communication and affection became high order in our marriage.

Since then, I shared some of the most intimate and touching moments with her that I'd ever experienced.

My anxieties regarding our relationship never really concerned the OM, because of my data concerning the break-up. My wife was love-busted and the OM never wanted the hassle again with someone like her. Plus I personally threatened to kill him and eat his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti, if he ever so much as waved to her in passing ever again!(my wife was not privy to that exchange) I've always had peace of mind that that specific affair door to that man was reasonably closed.

My anxieties have always involved the weaknesses that brought her to the affair in general-- diminished boundaries, lack of respect for me, her being rather gullible and rather easily influenced and her inability to communicate and recognize when her emotional account was veering into the RED.

your mother and sister are a threat to your marriage, so therefore you need to get them out of your life if you want to save this marriage, I am soo sorry that you had to read that email.

I hope the call helps

Thanks, Sapphire! Me too...

The problem is that my wife is still connected with my mom and sister. My sister is probably one of her closest friends. This actually explains at least one part of the negativity I felt come into our marriage lately.

Anyone who undermines my marriage and family is gone. I must protect what is mine.

Treadwell,

Your sister, mother and wife seem similar in their abuse and manipulation of you. I feel you have to treat your sister and mother as if they are OMs. Insist on NO CONTACT ever.

Snoop on your sister and see if she is having an affair then bust her those people are at war with you and your children.

Bullies like that are actually gutless and insecure, you need to stand up to them.

God Bless
Gamma

Thanks Gamma.

I can say emphatically that the betrayal by my mother today hurts as much as the betrayal of my wife. Two years ago, our counselor pointed out to my wife and I that my mother was a negligent and abusive mother when I was young-- most people never change. The email was so venomous and bitter against me that my closest friend (who knows her) was physically sickened to read it today. It's that bad.

At least I know now who is pumping toxicity into my family.

I kinda want to read that email now but understand if you don't want to post it.

Your getting a lot of advise here and help, is your wife going to be in the call with you and dr harley?

I will PM

Yes, my wife and i will be in two separate locations, conferenced in with him. Thursday. Prayers appreciated!

TW,

Don't know if this is your style, but I would copy that email to every friend or associate of your mothers.

My mom used to guilt me when I was a kid, but when I was 10 I told her that she would die some day, I would bury her and life would go on, she crumbled and never said anything like that again.

Hold up a mirror to the Medusa!

God Bless
Gamma

My mom has always been negative with me-- she has issues with men I suppose. She has never supported anything I did as a kid. She constantly reinforced how I would fail at certain endeavors-- of course if i did, she'd be snide. She nearly ruined my wedding 16 years ago, as did my sister, with their folded arms and bad attitudes. I married into a lovely family, a beautiful wife and a different life that didn't fit the template for my side of the family. Kinda like "how dare you live a new life and be happy".

Over the years things became more amicable. There were times when we would genuinely get along fine. But always insults and demeaning comments at family dinners. I finally told her and my sister a couple years ago that I would not stand for the unwarranted lack of respect. Things have tapered off, but a leopard cant change its spots.

I have thought of copying that email to her FB profile!

OK.. PM's disabled...

Highlights:
1) She encourages my wife to employ the high-powered services of a lawyer friend of ours and let me have it.

2) she compares me to her brother (my uncle) a man who beat his wife and spent time in prison... a career criminal and ne'r-do-well. Except she says to my wife I am "MUCH MUCH MORE MANIPULATIVE"

3)A true loving parent who was worth their salt, would not do what I'm doing to my wife right now (i.e. refusing to accommodate and enable my wife's selfish behavior and refusing to tell the kids some lame "mom and dad just couldnt work it out" concession speech.)

4)"HOLD YOUR GROUND AND DONT TAKE ANY [censored]"

5)"I'M SICK OF HIM" (mind you, i see her only rarely and talk to her maybe once a month... our conversations are never heated and are always just cordial chats)

New email from my own mother to my wife... Here are the highlights:

My wife mentioned to my mother in an email that we are going to have a counseling session with Steve. My mother told her:

"Here's the problem that I have with this....two things: 1) You and he have ALREADY been to counseling, and he (me) doesn't tell the truth, nor does he care to. He thinks therapists are quacks, and he's smarter than they are..."

I was the one who insisted on counseling three years ago. I spent considerable time searching and talking to prospective therapists to find the one I thought best qualified to help us. I am the one pushing for counseling now. Because of this forum, I feel Steve is the ideal therapist for our crisis.

A close friend of mine generously paid for this session with Steve, because he deeply cares about my wife and I and understands our financial situation right now. My mom sounds off on this fact:

"Why in the hell does ______ (a.k.a. Mr. @ss Kisser) know your @#%$?" My mother has never met this friend of mine and knows him only by name.

My mother then expresses her rage that I've told my closest friends what's going on (my wife wanting to leave me) and she says this:

"...why does he(me) tell ANYONE what's going on between the two of you?! This is what pissed me off three years ago....that he called everybody and their mother telling everyone his tale of woe....and WHY?? Not that he wasn't hurt, but more that he wanted everyone to feel sorry for him. And trust me, it backfired!!! This ALL sucks!"

Three years ago when the affair broke out I told ONLY my two closest friends details of the affair and then broke the news to my mother, my sister and father-in-law. Coworkers knew only I was having "family problems". That was the extent of my "world". As many of you with a WS can empathize, I was mostly shamed and my self-image/worth seriously damaged. To this day, my best friends only know a sanitized version of the affair. There were facts only my wife and therapist know about to this day. Pain, humiliation and deep sorrow were the only emotions I felt. My mother never came to me and offered comfort or support during this time. For the first three days, I watched the four kids by myself while my wife was sleeping at her father's house. No family member came at any time to help with the kids or give me a break. I had to take a week off from work just to have the energy to cope with myself and the needs of the children. It was one of the darkest and utterly lonely experiences I'd ever gone thru.

I am now convinced my sister and mother are piping toxic sentiments into my wife and supporting the dissolution of the marriage. What can I possibly do??? I am endeavoring to cut these negative influences from my life-- how do i protect MY KIDS, who I envision could be a future target of this vortex of nastiness?

Will not write what I want to write, you need absolute NC with your mother, and she should never see your children, this woman is on a crusade to destroy you. In the back of her mind she may never have forgiven you for not being a daughter or some sick thing.

Do she have a sexual attraction to your wife?

God Bless
Gamma

My wife always had a detached, but pleasant relationship with my mom and so did I actually. When My wife had the affair, my mom and sis became a lot more close with her. Now they are best buds.

My mom left my dad when I was 7 and proceeded to have a 15-year long string of lousy boyfriends who hated kids. Her own father left her when she was an infant and she never knew him. She has issues with men. Clearly.

I've made the emotional decision to separate myself completely from my mom and sister. If I confront them about the emails, I blow my keylogger cover... and there's bound to be more interesting exchanges.

How do I keep my wife from dragging the children into this toxic wastedump oozing out of my family?

What ages are your kids?

Depending on their developmental level:

Start taking them to church or temple or Sunday school.
Discuss the foundations of good/bad behavior.
Talk to them in age appropriate ways about morals and character and lack of same.
Tell them you can be trusted with honesty and facts.
Tell them when they feel uncomfortable, or compromised when they are not under your care, they can call you to talk about it.

Unless they are exposed to porn/drugs/alcohol/violence/abuse .... You are going to have to rely on your TEACHINGS to protect them from the toxic waste.

If any of the above conditions apply, get a court order.
Keep your key logger source secret.
They might be so dumb as to incriminate themselves, and give you evidence.

Sorry.

Why don't you block there phone numbers, email, FB, anything that they can't contact you, I seriously believe you have to do this to protect your kids, you mother, sister, and WW are BAD influences for them in their life. You need to find someone who can cherish what a family is all about.

Treadwell, how are you doing?

Ugh.

We've had two meetings with Steve Harley. First meeting seemed to go well for her. She responded to his advice and did the reading assignments he recommended. Second meeting was a "rubber meets the road" situation and she resisted pretty much everything he said. She maintained that it would be impossible for her to feel differently about me no matter what I did.

She and I talked some more this week. I thought our discussions were mildly hopeful, to tell the truth. Thursday night she told me she needed to clear her head, get alone and think about things. I thought that was good and supported her.

She said she planned to go to a rock climbing facility by herself and do some strenuous exercise which she said would help her. Then she told me she was going to go to her office (located in a church, btw) and spend some time writing things down and thinking about her future, etc... Again, I supported this 100%. At least in theory. She told me she may be home late or just may spend the night at the church. (she's done this a couple other times)

However, to be perfectly blunt, I had creeping suspicions about the whole thing. I checked on some details and the evidence pointed to her going rock-climbing by herself. I accepted that. Shortly before I went to bed, around midnight, she still had not come home and I assumed she was spending the night. Just out of nagging curiosity, I checked her minute to minute cell phone log and saw that she'd called a weird number around 8pm.

I did reverse lookup and there was no info on the number. I called it and it was a Google Voice Subscriber number. Now for those of you that don;t know, Google Voice is a cheaters paradise-- it offers a generic number that cannot really be traced to any particular user... You can only call if you are accepted in the users "group", etc...

I went to bed and meditated on what to do. She came home in the morning, told me she had a good night writing things down, pinpointing some nagging feelings she was having etc... It seemed pretty positive. Although I noticed she was a little nervous. She offered to take the kids to a park to give me some time alone and I agreed and set out to find more about the mysterious phone number.

After some research, I found a free website that cloaks your cell number and substitutes any number you pick as the caller ID. I put in my wifes phone number as the caller ID, and I connected. Low and behold-- it was a guy. He hung up immediately when he heard my voice. Uh-oh. My heart sank and my hands started shaking in fear. My worst fears confirmed.

I immediately called my wife and asked her about the number. She got very shaky again and I knew that lying voice very very well. She said she didnt know whose number it was. I said "well, you called it last night when left rock climbing at 8pm, so you should certainly know who it is..." She admitted it was the number of the guy she met at the bar with my sister three weeks ago (see beginning of the thread for more details... i think) The guy is about 23 or 24, out of college. She denied, and I pushed with more facts and finally she crumbled and admitted she'd spent the night at his place. Then admitted they'd slept together. She threw her underwear away-- I guess hoping to not be discovered.

I can be a doormat forever or I can stand up for myself. I told her to pack and get out. I know this is perhaps a MB no-no, but this person showed no remorse whatsoever. She is engaged in high-risk, self destructive behavior and frankly I just couldnt take it anymore. I've been trying for three years to recover and have a happy marriage. She is willfully deceptive and self-sabotaging and I just reached the pain threshold.

I have been struggling for THREE years to have peace and every step of the way she has lied and been deceptive. I am the kids' primary caregiver so the situation is complicated.

Treadwell, I am so sorry to hear this. I think you did the right thing. A SECOND AFFAIR. uhh hell no! I would be done if I were in your shoes.

I am just sorry for you and your kids. At least you know you did everything in your power to save this. The next best thing you can do for her, even though your marriage might not be saved, is tell everyone the truth about the source of your breakup. Keepng it a secret will keep her sick.

It is so repulsive to me to see this person I once loved and admired-- indeed a woman who was once so dedicated to marriage and family-- become a literal whore and someone with so little regard for herself. I won't be phony and say I feel sad at this stage. I actually feel relief... that this cancerous liar will soon be excised from my life. Three years of anxiety, worry and neediness, always afraid if she was telling me the truth and always wondering if and when she was going to betray me again.

I feel tonight like I'm emerging from a three-year bout with some debilitating illness. I've removed my wedding ring. Suddenly the world seems full of possibilities. My appetite is back.

Any sadness I feel is for the kids who are stuck with a deceptive, self-destructive mother

I feel sorry for you, but what you did was exactly how you should have acted! Kicking her out was the best thing you did on moving forward, I am also glad that you will have the kids

Also I would EXPOSE AGAIN what she has done, tell them EVERYTHING!

Good luck on a new life with out this toxic woman.