Hi so sick.

well first of all, and I know screen names are chosen by the person for very persoanl reasons, but by God get a more postive screen name!...*s* You know as well as I do, that despite circumstances, that how you denote yourself is also how you feel about yourself. So, how about "Looking for the rainbow", or "I'm worth It".

Anyway, glad to see you are still alive and kicking! When you mentioned your son leaving home for college, well I have my son back here with me now until he gets on his feet again.

Imho, you can't hold yourself prisoner 'Rainbow' for the sake of anyone, including your spouse. That is unhealthy. Ya know, I liken your situation to the feeling of when I walk out of confession. Going in you feel like guilty and apprehensive. Yea, you have to confess to another human. But, know what, when I walk out I feel uplifted. I don't feel a prisoner to anyone. It used to be that priests would take it out on you, and that was deadly wrong. Today, they more certainly realize they are servants, and that God is the one who forgives, despite that fact that some people cannot or wont't. So, if you feel cowtowed, just don't. God does not want people to feel that way. He wants them to feel individually active and striving despite their past. He most likely doesn't like the Dallas Cowgirls either! The are usually too aroggant! So, be devoted to your H as best you can, but don't beat yourself down by sacraficing your contacts, and your life.

Just take care and good to see you back!

Tom

I think this is very appropriate, saddest/ssot. I confronted this same thing a number of times, and it took me a while to get the idea that you have posted: he controls him, I control me.

There are highs and lows to recovery. Some of the lows feel like the end of the line, and you're both absolutely miserable. Best advice is head down, bull through it. I don't know how your BH would feel about you talking it out with him - like the other night, where you withdrew, e.g. - but if maybe you guys both lay out a plan for what will help the other when you hit a low... That way you would have a buffer of sorts for the dejection and not knowing what to do next?

Just an FYI, if you indulge in the withdrawing from your BH when things are rough, that's your Taker elbowing in. Be watchful of that.

The crying from your BH... I wonder if it's that he's at a complete loss. He wants this, he doesn't know what to do, he feels responsible (as you mentioned) when you say you're lonely, etc., etc., etc. Is there any way you can get him on the phone with the Harleys?

One other thing that might help...(don't hate me!)... When you're down, when your Taker is trying to take over, when your BH is down... do something for him. It sounds crazy, especially to your Taker, but I've found it helps to focus on my victim, it helps alleviate that self-flagellation that I am so good at, and it may just help fill a LB$. Doesn't have to be a huge thing, something small - something meaningful, some thoughtful gesture, etc.

That's all I got for now. Hope some of it helps!

Ditto that.

FYI, you can go into "My Stuff" and edit your profile. Change your display name to whatever you want. Your login and password and everything are all still the same, it just changes your display name - works ex post facto, too.

Mrs. Vamilla,

I haven't seen very many of your posts, and maybe you do not post much, but, when you do you just seem very wise and down to earth. just wanted to say that.

Tom

You're probably in the ballpark. Being a guy, and just from what you've said, I'd guess that he doesn't know what the hell to do with all this, doesn't know how to fix it (we like to fix things) and worries that, when you say you're lonely, that you'll step out again. Or, at least, that's what I'd think. Food for thought.

Like Mrs. Vanilla suggested, some small gesture of kindness may be worthwhile, even though you'll likely get little in return. Anything that will help build his trust for you would be worth it and, hopefully, allow him to open up a little.

It's kind of the basic question, who goes first in repairing things? To paraphrase something I read elsewhere, the person who thinks that they are the most mature should take the lead.

Slowly getting better over here, thanks for asking. We're both committed to working this out, with the D-word not being an option. Finally starting to see more ups than downs.

Take care, we're rooting for you.

Forgot to ask, but what is his top EN?

+1

It would be a trigger for me. Why not to say "I want to be with you" or "I miss you " instead?

SSOT,

I have a few thoughts on the matters you posted. Let me first say that your feelings about S19 going to college are very very normal. My W cried when we left each of our three children and one of them went to college only 10 miles away. The last one went about 550 away and she cried the entire drive home, man that was fun. You should have been at the weddings!

Ok, you said I will touch on the solitude in a moment, but you are supposed to be telling him these things. You know what else you should have said? You should have said, �Honey, I need your help. I want us to work, and I don�t know what to do and the anxiety is draining me empty. Please talk to me and tell me what you think?�

Ok SSOT, you are doing this to yourself. Your H is not asking you to. You are making a disrespectful judgment about him when you assume that his anxiety cannot be addressed and that as you bring friends into your life you can enrich your life and his because you are happier. Want proof that your happiness enriches his life??? Read the next quote.

Have you enquired as to why he gets so emotional? Have you figure out, that you suffering and struggling is really hurting him because he feels he cannot help you. He doesn�t know how to help you. He wants you happy. Not sure I am right? Then ask him and talk about that. Girl you are missing something very important here. It seems to me you failing to understand that your H has high expectations of you, and wants you happy. Has he gone about it the right way? NOPE! But if you guide him, he will do his best. If nothing else sit down next to him and simply take his hand. Or sit down and as him to rub your shoulders or neck. Little, simple, baby steps will start to reconnect you, but you unilaterally making sacrifices only leads to YOUR resentment.

Did you ask him why it wasn�t going to drop? Did you tell him you felt it ought to drop or at least that is how YOU feel? Do you realize that he is saying that if you trust him, he will trust you?

Do you know what would ease his pain?? It would be you allowing him to help you ease yours. You are burned out, because you are trying to do this all alone, it would seem from what you said, he will try to help IF you will give him instructions.

Ok I am going to say this again. This is YOUR prison, and it is clear to me that your H would be much happier if you were happy in your life with him, and that means taking the key in your purse, opening the cell, taking his hand and getting on with life. Tell him you would like to go out with a friend for lunch, and ask if he has any objections. He will say no. Then call your friend go out, enjoy, laugh, and then come home smile at your H and say �Thank you for trusting me, you made me very happy.� He needs feed back and you need to quit kicking yourself in the butt.

Dear Lady, the price you MUST pay is to learn to enjoy your marriage and by happy in it. There is no way you can take back what you have done any more than your H can take but things he has done. True retribution is to make the marriage work by being happy in it. He deserves that gift from you. More than anything he deserves the gift of your smile and your happiness.

You really do have this whole thing upside down. True repentance is reflected in truly changing your approach to this marriage and making it one you both share and enjoy. You whipping yourself, hurts you, hurts your H, hurts your children, and it hurts your marriage. This is Marriage Builders for gosh sakes and you don�t build a marriage by beating yourself. You fix the things you can fix, you learn a different perspective and you understand that your happiness is tied to your H�s and his is tied to you. Work on happiness�YOURS!

God Bless,

JL

I read that your affair started in march

You are not happy about the pace of recovery

It takes six month's for a BS to grasp and process the affair took place.

Then they can go through an anger phase for another six months.

So it's not yet a year out from D day where do you expect to be? I'm not going to read 69 page to find out if there was trickle truth, if a NC letter was approved and sent by BH, how you met the OM, work, you still work at same place, NC, does the OM live close by, etc.

Outside of venting here what have you done to repair the trust?

Everything that gets broken can�t be repaired.

You want to go out of town on a weekend and wonder why BH would have a problem not trusting his WW.

Recovery is a two to five year process.

You, for what ever reasons, had you fun, then decided the affair was no longer fun so you ended it. You had the time you needed to justify starting it, doing it, ending it.

Your BH even if the worst husband of the world did not get to have his input asked for on his position on his WW banging the OM before it was to happen.

You volunteered to participate your marriage in an affair your BH didn�t he was forced to accept it.

Your marriage may recover. Your marriage may end in a divorce. Your marriage may continue on without recovery.

Thing is 69 pages you are at your wits end. This indicates that you need to counsel with the Harley�s because you and BH are going no where.

The mud, the road and anyone else that can help, please go to my thread. I may need some 2X4's

Saddest, sorry to threadjack but I so understand your situation. I am 13 months out. It does get better BUT....

JL I love reading your posts.

OK, better screen name I think. I chose sosickofthis because I didn't want the guy with the international custody issue to discount what I was saying because I'm a WS.

Speaking of people who need to change their screen names... JUST Learning? I don't think a single person on this site would agree with that.


I do now!


We talked last night and again this morning and this is precisely what he wants. He wants me to take the bull by the horns and go live my life and stop worrying about this all the time. He wants me to stop beating myself up and get excited about my life again. He actually wants me to re-connect with my friends (my mind reading skills are not NEARLY as good as I like to think they are.)

I'm in a time of transition from mother to ??? Times of transition are scary. I'm not in the habit of talking to him. I get myself all tied up in knots because I think I have to be perfect and then when I finally open up to him it's always fine. The more times it's fine, the easier it will be.

If he's not stopping me, I'm stopping myself. This is the kind of self sabotage that my A represents.


I'm not unhappy about the pace. I want to do the right thing. It's a balancing act.


I don't feel like I was venting. I'm not at my wits end. I was stuck and asking for help.

I've followed the steps in SAA & talked to SteveH twice.

He's safe with me. He just doesn't know it yet. It will take time. That's OK.


Trust isn't the issue -- I was going to see my brother and he and my H are close. It's a matter of scheduling.

Northwood, his number one EN is O&H.

Mrs. V -- I am incredibly nice to him. He is being incredibly nice back. I have a thirst for more though -- a different view of what M could be like, where my heart jumps when I see him and the idea of keeping anything about me secret would be unimaginable. I had no idea such a thing was even possible. MB seems to be the only plan for accomplishing that, and I am intent on following it as closely as possible.

It took us a long time to get to this point, and it will take us a long time to repair. That's OK too. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why we shouldn't have a great M and enjoy the next part of our lives.

We went out to dinner for our anniversary and made our "bucket list", an activity I HIGHLY recommend. The rules were to assume complete autonomy and no depending on someone else to reach the goal, so things like watching our kids graduate from college were out.

He wants to go on a bike trip through Germany and I want to take a cooking class in France, Italy or Spain. He wants to learn to play the guitar and I want to become fluent in Spanish. He wants to build a canoe and I want to build one beautiful piece of furniture. We both want to make a significant charitable contribution. It was a great starting point for looking forward, and a lot of fun.

That night he said, "if I don't figure out how to be a good husband, I'm going to live a miserable life." The next day he cried because I didn't care enough about him not to cheat and he's afraid he's not "the one" for me. It was extremely emotional.

That and then skyping with S19, spending an evening with my MOTHER, and no sleep and I slipped into my masochistic/martyr role. Bad for me therefore bad for him therefore bad for the M. I'm slooowly getting it.

Next time it comes up, I'm going to suggest Dr. H's "on your word" code phrase. That will help A LOT.

Thanks you all. Your help means the world to me.

SW/SB:

Talking really does help.

Don't worry about being perfect. Just worry about talking.

Baby steps.

LG

Seeking, I was thinking about you the other day and I was hoping that you were doing okay. I am glad to see you posting again.\

I have learned a lot from you and I have seen the progression you have made. Of course you are going to slip backwards a few times, it is still a learning process for you. I am glad that you know where to turn when you need the push.

I do want to ask you about the email that you CCd your BH on. Why did you CC him?

I am glad that JL gave you the awesome advice. Although you don't seem to be a mind reader when it comes to your BH, it seems JL is.

Remember that during UA time, it is essential that you meet the 4 ENs, RC, SF, Convo, and Affection. Do some FUN things together. Recreate a date you had when you first got together. It will be awkward, but don't you remember how awkward those first dates seemed? You are getting to know eachother again.

I LOVE the bucket list idea, I wonder though, are there things on there that you guys can do TOGETHER? That way you could use you UA time to also check off some of those bucket list items.

Take care.

SB,

You wrote:
WOW! I mean just WOW!

You said you didn't have anything to talk about right? You said you don't have anything in common right? I'm looking at your bucket list and thinking this would be soooooo cool, you two have so much overlap in your lists and the fun you two could have in the basement, him making a canoe and your your funiture. Talking, sanding, staining, varnishing, and finishing. And then, and then.... I would recommend a joint clean up in the shower. S15 is lucky you two haven't shipped him off to boarding school already. Just kidding there. Keep talking and I am thinking you two could have a wonderful life, I mean wonderful.

I'll bet it was emotional, but it was a good emotional in that you are hearing his real thoughts. Are you starting to understand the power you have in this marriage? Are you starting to see that you two need each other? Are you starting to understand he NEEDS your forgiveness as well?

Girl, it is all about perspective and as you talk I am SURE you two will see each other in a different light, a better light.

Good to see you starting to talk to him SB. I really I am Just Learning as you will see as your time on this grows.

God Bless,

JL

PS: SB guide your H to be a better husband. Talk with him and see what kind of feedback he wants and needs from you. Develop your own shorthand for reminding each other when things become uncomfortable, but do it so that you are showing, guiding each other. He is seeking your help. It really doesn't matter what kind of H is in detail as long as he is the H that you need, and can love.

saddest/seeker -

You sound like you are in a much better place - and you sound like a very different person than the one who first started posting here a few months ago!

Like lousygolfer said, don't expect perfection. Be gentle to your BH ... and to yourself.

Keep it up!

Hi Seeking,

Well, a very good name...as if my approval means anything...*s*

Anyway, it does sound like you are feeling a little better. Ya know what, after he had moved out on his own several years ago, my son is now back here due to fact that he broke up with his gf (well, yea like a woman several years older). It is good in a way to have him back since I can help him get on his feet again, but in a way it is not the same as when my W and I first let him launch. I felt awfully nostalgic for awhile when out daughter left for college several years ago as well. I did not admit this to my W, but now we both are very proud of her and where she is, and we still get together as a family. As Sinatra crooned, That's Life, and it is. In just a short while I think you are going to feel even more proud of yand happy for your son as he gets established in college and pursues his life and goals.

So, let's talk about tomatos. I can never remember if tomatos ends in 'oes' as opposed to potatoes! It is the same with the spelling of piece as opposed to receive. I used to have trouble with spelling those two until I learned that the first three letters of piece is the same as pie, and receive is the opposite. And, no, I don't mean the fried green tomatos or the tomatos that Sinatra referred to in some of his movies, but the basic garden kind that you grow to consume. I have never had the fried green type, but now that there are some and I am taking the tomato plants out for the season I might try that.

Growing tomato plants is alot like achieving a good marriage. There is the concern of achieving a good balance. For me, this is the first season in awhile that I have grown them. So, there were questions of risk of overwatering vs. underwatering, fertilizing too much vs. too little, pruning vs. letting them grow naturally, and using pestisides to control bugs (POSOM's). I learned that Marigolds planted close by are a great answer for the latter, since they repel most varmints (extraordinary precautions). I learned not to get overly anxious on wilted leaves (we had a hot summer), and failure of blossom set. All you do is shake the branches a few times a day to encourage the set. Then, a windstorm way back in early June (affair) took out one of the Early Girls. Well, disappointing, but I bought one of the last available from our garden store, planted, and it has a good yield. Of course, the timing is not right, becasue the plants are now producing more than they did a month ago when I had time.

Tomatos obviously cannot express or converse, achieve a reconciliation, or make decisions on their own. On the other hand, they don't require their 'partner' to go hidden, sacrifice their friends and their personal identity, or to cowtow.

Well Seeking, am sure you think that I am reprortable, but for God's sake someone needs to get you back here fully participating and fully reawakened!

You seem to me like a very wonderful person - perhaps just not that adept at growing tomato plants.

Best wishes and take care,

Tom

Hi again Seeking,

Just wanted to say to you that please don't get me onto the subject of relating green peppers and hot peppers to a marriage, both of which I have also grown this season! You might never recover from that!

Take care and best wishes,

Tom

OK, the anger is coming out but I am almost certain it is not in the right order -- my rage at him seems limitless and it is scaring me. I remember my children's faces when he would cut them to the quick, SNAP, in his whim of a moment, and whatever beautiful thing they thought they had is GONE, and I can't seem to breathe. And in those few moments when I feel good about me, a word or a look and I am once again a deflated pathetic being, so very, very sorry for taking up space, but not one bit sorry for having an A.

Not.One.Bit.Sorry. In my soul I am gleeful to find I have any power whatsoever.

It is my S15 I am so fearful for. He is so vulnerable and I KNOW I could make him a good stable happy home by myself.

I don't know what love is supposed to feel like, but surely, surely this isn't it.

I'm going to buy a pack of cigarettes. Please help me.

Did something happen today?

Yes, his mother is in town and her and H's collective disapproval of me and MY children is taking its toll.

Mind you, his mother has been living with her OM whose 20 plus year M broke up over her for the last 15 years. Not married to OM -- he refused to marry again. But she has potloads of money that he has given her and travels around the world first class so who cares?

H's sister is M and has been having an A with a guy who works for her for 7?8? years. Her H is supposedly oblivious, but her girls, 25, 22 and 17 have all talked to me about it at some point.

But me, well, that's a horse of a different color. I'm scum ..... and a bad mother to boot.

And NO princessmeggy, I am not making ONE BIT of that up -- any more than I made up H criticizing me for buying too many paper towels at Costco.

I'm worn out. I don't know how to do this. I don't have a frame of reference. The disconnect is too much.