<BR>Again I want to thank you all for helping me through my "rough spot"....it was a bad one!!!<P>I have to say that the fact that H called when he did was amazing to me....God sent all of you to help and pray and then H calls. Was that helped by God also?<P>Makes you wonder, doesn't it!!<P>When he was on the phone with me, he knew right away that something was wrong...just told him I was sick!! He asked me about the letter from Shark Lady and what was up with that....told him that since we never counseled - it is a good idea to do so. <P>What was really weird was that he said " I heard she is a shark!"<BR>I wondered if this is coincidence since that is what we call her here!! Even went through some paranoia that he or someone else he knows lurks here at MB (if so, welcome!!).<P>Anyway, it was interesting!!<P>When he came over - he played with the dog and I got a kiss and a BIG HUG and believe me when I say that I needed it so badly!!! He knew it too!! He knows that that gives me strength and I think he just thought it was cuz I didn't feel good!! <P>We talked some. About the divorce, about the way he had handled our relationship, and I even came right out and told him that I can not sign papers unless they say the truth!!<P>He said that he would be more than willing to put that he wanted out on the papers instead of Irreconsilable Differences!! Kind of surprised me...I told him that I hoped that he remembered saying that when the time comes.<P>He said that his lawyer doesn't think that the divorce will go through until after the beginning of the year.....I was happily surprised about that!!! I sure as heck didn't want it around the holidays and for some reason - it gives me a measure of comfort that we will still be married for the year 2000!!!<P>My H has this thing about the year 2000.....seems that he has never thought of life beyond that year and has this fixation that he must live life to the fullest cuz he doesn't think he'll be around much past that mark!!!<P>Anyway, he had told my SIL one day just after he moved out that if he was still here after the beginning of the year - he would start caring about things again!! At the time I told him that I want it in writing and I have a witness!!!<P>I know that I am rambling, we covered so much today...nothing earth shattering but I was able to get some points across and see that he is still just very messed up!!<P>I'll just leave you all with the biggie.....Are you all sitting down? Big Whack-A-Doodle coming here........<P>He said that "I can't wait until the divorce is final because then our relationship will be so much better!!!"<P>I said "HuH?"<P>He said that then there won't be all the tension and we could go back to the way things were!!<P>HUH??????????<P>My Interpretation is - he will feel less guilty about what he is doing and I could be there to love him and it won't hurt me so much!!!!<P>OK - tell me that this man does not need counseling!!!!<P>Hugs to you all,<P>Sheba<p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited October 26, 1999).]

I say bring out the baseball bat again!!!<P>I'm glad you're sounding better now.<P>I'm at work, but I'll be back to talk later today.<P>Luv Ya.<P>Lori

Yup, Whack-a-doodle.<P>I'm speechless.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Sheba,<P>I too am speechless. What the heck??????<P>I'll just pray. I can think of no other response to what he has said.<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

Pardon me, I can't type...my jaw just fell on the keyboard.<P>{{{{{{ Sheba }}}}}}}

Sheba, Nothing makes sense does it? I begining to wonder about this 2000 thing myself. I mean so many crazy things are happening. I don't mean that the world is going to end but that people seem to have such a fear of it that they are doing really weird things. Maybe that why so many of us are here. <BR>Well two steps forward one step backward. Maybe he things that a divorce is the way to end things so you can begin again.Don't they come up with such outlandish ideas. I'm glad you are feeling better. Such the ups and downs of our rollercoaster of life.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Sheba,<BR>What does your h think this is high school? How do you picture your relationship if you do divorce? Maybe it is time to set up your relationship as if you were and the way you plan to act if the divorce goes through. Make him see exactly what his actions are going to cause before the deed is done. You set the guidelines of your relationship from now on!! He has to see how much you respect yourself and maybe he will follow suit. Who knows. Talk to your counselor about his remark. Good luck. Some of his ideas??

OK...think I found my voice. Sheba, did you say anything? I understand how you were so stunned that moment that you were speechless yourself.<P>Maybe he means the adversarial nature of D negotiations will be ceased, so you can go back to being best buds when he needs you to be.<P>If you were going to talk this over, I guess I would ask him to describe how things were "before" to get some kind of take where in outer space he resides. Then I would listen and not comment if possible so you can do a lot of thinking.<P>Sheba, what do you envision for your life after divorce. Are you planning to stay friendly with him? Will you be open to a new relationship? <P>I know it is hard to know without being there, but I think you two may have way different ideas of what D will be like.<P>And Sheba, I know you worry about him without a positive influence such as yourself, but after divorce it is really not your problem. There is a possibility that if you really let him go he would shape up. Not that you mean to be enabling him, but maybe you are his crutch somehow. Maybe someone elso would intervene in his life. Who knows.<P>I do think you need to think what you want. In your attempts to reconcile and be a plan Aer, you have let him navigate the relationship. <P>You are accountable for the rest of your life, so you need to make the decisions on the ground rules. Of course you can choose to let him continue to yank your chain. Just realize it will be your choice after the D.<P>I'm so sorry for this whole mess you are in.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Sheba, <P>I was going to say something similar to FHL - but she said it much better than I coould have. <P>I have a feeling this H of your thinks he can waltz in and out of your life post D to get whatever need of his you fill. <P>Don't let him do that to you. That could go on for years. He will think you are always there for him. <P>His response seems pretty similar to Chris' wife's Pepsi vs Coke problem. Or was it wheat bread and white bread? <P>Glad you are doing better .<P>SHA

Hi Everyone -<P>So how do you all feel after getting a taste of the kind of stuff that has been going on for the past three years?<P>This is typical of the things he has said and I am constantly amazed that I am not in a padded room!!! LOL!!!<P>The biggest problem is that he makes these kinds of statements and then goes back to not talking about "us" again..so I am left hanging with what the hell he meant!!! Try as I might...he does not return to explainations for them.<P>Another good example is...do you all remember a week or so ago he told me that he was burnt out and when I asked if he meant work - he said "no, that was the only thing he enjoyed in his life"?<P>Well, yesterday I asked if he still felt down and burnt out....he looked at me like I was nuts!!! "What are you talking about?" he says...I reminded him of previous statement and he said "I never said that"......I then proceeded to repeat the conversation ver-batim!!! He gets this little smile on his face and says "I don't remember that!!" I told him he was full of [censored] and soooo messed up!! I know that it's just his way of not addressing things that he doesn't want to....I used to try to talk my way around his block..but he never would give.<P>Half the time, I don't know what is forgotten or what is remembered and still denied for whatever ridiculous reason his brain cell is using!!! Usually if he remembers but doesn't want to admit....he gives it away with that little half-smile.....I'm getting good at picking things up now!!!<P>Anyway, my point in relating this is to show how much "non-talk" I get from him most of the time....that's why I have been so tired - it's a verbal three year tug of war to get some expainations of his feelings!!!<P>Derby - Does he think this is High School? I think HE thinks he's that age and the people around him ACT like that age......... That's why he wants out so much, because I WON"T go along and be that age!!! He admits that he never found a way to incorporate his New Cop Life with his normal married/ friends/ family life!! He just doesn't want to try at this point, to do that. He keeps them separate.......Hence, DrJekyll and MR Hyde!!!!<P>I'm not sure what he thinks life will be after the Divorce!!! I feel that he realizes the he will always have some "bond" with me....but what kind of bond it will be or has been for that matter - I have no idea. <P>Some of you asked how I picture our relationship after Divorce....this is something that has scared the beegeebies out of me!!!<P>I have had nightmares of his doing this kind of "hanging on to me" for years - and still remaining in this immature playboy bigshot cop stage.....<P>I could not survive that....and have been trying to figure out how I will deal with it. Any ideas are most welcome!!!<P>I don't want this divorce..but I don't want things like they are either!! <P>If you know me, you know that I think about everything!!! I have looked at all different scenarios of what life will be like and what I should do if this or that happens.<P>I have no conclusions......<P>I know that my heart wants my H in my life and preferably in a marital relationship. Will I settle for just a friendship....not if it's one-sided like now!! Will I be able to keep him away from me with his nonsense...I don't know!!<P>It's so hard to explain the dynamics of our being "bonded"....It's like we get our strength from each other.....like yesterday..I was in a bad way - I started to get lifted by you all and when H came and hugged me - WOW the energy was restored....not a sexual or longing kind of thing..but just simple Life energy!! <P>He does it with me also, it's like we HAVE to have contact.....even throughout all this mess!!! That's why the Whack-A-Doodling happens I think!! He feels that he wants all these other people and this different life but still needs the "energy" he gets from me.<P>Through the cheating and the hurt he inflicted on "us"....I have not ever had one thought of it being about me!! I have always known that it was his own demons and did not make it personal...is that the ultimate weirdness or what!!!<P>When I have been/ am in pain...it's not with thoughts of his cheating, etc...it's with thoughts of his needing help with his turmoil and my being afraid of his losing himself!! and me!!<P>I am not expaining this very well..<BR>..please forgive me!! I have Codeine Head today!!!<P>It goes back to when we met and that "connection" I guess!! It's always been there and may just always remain!!!<P>He knows me and I know him....we finish each other's thoughts (call it "sucking my brain"!!) all the time!!! We could talk about anything before all this - heck even during he would tell me everything when he allowed himself to!!<P>We have the same dreams...good example:<P>Yesterday, he told me that he "had a dream..." and I said "yeah, and you got shot!" He said "Oh, you had it too!" and I said yes....Difference in our dreams was that in his - he got shot in the vest and in mine he didn't!!! So we sat and analyzed both versions!! <P>See the "bond" that I mean!! It's very strange....I've never been as close to someone as H so I don't know if this stuff is "normal" in a marriage or not!!<P>You tell me!!!!<P>I've rambled long enough for now...there is tons more I could say - let's hear what you think so far......<P>HUGS and thanks for helping me with this, I'm going to have to be prepared!!<P>Sheba<BR> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited October 26, 1999).]

How quickly they forget about me!!!<P>C'mon guys, don't leave me all messed up here........<P>LOL!!<P>Just came from 2nd counselor's session and am pretty pissed off!!! How come my hour turned into 1/2 hour? Freakin vultures!!!!!!<P>Anyway....told him about H's statement and he basically just kept shaking his head and was dumbfounded.<BR>Says that H is a piece of work!!!<P>Gee, I needed to pay someone to tell me that!!!! UGH!!!<P>Talked about my losing a friend....he needs to be accountable for what he has done to me. I should hold him accountable - which I WOULD IF it made a damn bit of difference!!!!! HE DOES NOT CARE nor even realize all that he has done!!! I know it cuz I am living it. How do I "hold him accountable?" What does that mean?<P>Is it because I am not rip-roaring mad and crazed that I am not holding him accountable? I don't understand....<BR>Is it because I still talk to him and have not lost my love for him - does that have to cease to qualify for what I have to do to "hold him accountable? <P>Someone please explain this, cuz I don't get it!!!!<P>Talked about getting on with my life...I said that my life is going along the way it always has and the way I like it (except not having any money) so how is my life not "gotten on with"? I don't party....I don't shop....I have my friends, family, hobbies, work, etc.<P>The only thing different is no H!!!! And the relationship learning and concentration......I don't think that I should stop that learning - should I?<P>My H is not going to all of a sudden be out of my heart and head!!! He will ALWAYS be a part of me in some form!! <BR>I don know how he can be gone from my life so completely as people seem to want me to make it......How can that happen when you LOVE someone - it's like saying that you brother's not your brother - except it's a much more intimate oneness!!!! <P>Yes, there are parts of him that I have not had and vows are pretty shot on his part.......<P>In his head - I am no longer his "wife" and whatever else he tells himself....<P>He will and has do/done whatever he pleases to make himself happy.....<P>Where exactly is my "choice" about things in this scenario? <P>All I can do is understand and love him and the memory of what we did have once and keep healing myself......<P>If life throws someone in my direction and things happen - then that is what will be.....am I suppose to go grab someone up or something?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba <P>PS - Don't know if you all saw or not but I did no responses on my HELP thread....go get your Thank you!!! LOL!!!<p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited October 27, 1999).]

We didn't forget. We were all at a big meeting about you trying to solve your problem. We figure, hey since we can't solve our own mess, maybe we can fix Sheba's!!! <P>OK, here are my thoughts and I might have to charge you this.<P>Sheba, I know you love your H. I know you would walk through fire for him. And i know you couldn't possibly forget about him and what he means to you. (now you know a BUT is coming don't you?) BUT, this man is self centered, self gratifying, and totally self absorbed. He is using you to meet his needs alone. He toys with your emotions. He wants you at his beck and call. <P>Sheba, YOU deserve more than that. You are a very loving and caring lady. Your capacity to love puts many of us to shame. Most men would swim a huindred rivers and climb a thousand walls to have a wife like you. <P>I fear that you are going to let him drag you along for many years after the D papers are signed. Your H needs to wake up. So far, nothing is getting through to him. My suggestion is Plan B (i.e. TOUGH LOVE). If that doesn't wake him up to how special you are - NOTHING WILL.<P>Of course you can't just replace him with someone else. But, I bet a dozen donuts (he's a cop right?) that him seeing you with someone else would infuriate him. <P>As I said before, blessed is the man that captures your heart Sheba, for his cup will runneth over.<P>Sorry, if I was too tough. But, i want the best for you.<P>SHA<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited October 27, 1999).]

Not sure how to put it in words, I'll give it some thought, but just wanted you to know I read and I'm thinking.<P>I think you may hold him accountable in your head, but you do not hold his "feet to the fire" in the context of your relationship. That may be because you have discovered how futile it is, or it may be a function of fear that he will reject you entirely and then not have your positive influence in his life and you are afraid for him...or afraid of the hole that would create in your own life.<P>As to your choices, I think your counselor sees your connection to your H as unhealthy for you. That is his opinion. I think it is complex. However, as your divorce becomes final, it is your choice to make what role your H will have in your life and how that will affect your heart and your future. <P>This is your choice to make and anything you choose will come with its unique balance of benefits and consequences for both you and H.<P>Again, extremely complex, because you, my dear Sheba, are one complex and wonderful woman.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Sorry, I'm late. I was at SHA's meeting!<P>My stars, Sheba. Yeah, I was too stupid to look here (or I thought I did anyway) so I sent you the other post!<P>Take your time. Wayyyyyy too much going on right now to make any decisions yet. <P>BUT....you ARE his security blanket, you know? Only you can decide when it's time for that to stop. And I really think you will when you're ready. Otherwise, he may very well whack-a-doodle you to death!!<P>You truly are amazing. And he realizes that too. <P>You just take your time. You'll know when the time is right to do - oh whatever! You know what I mean, right?<P>Luv Ya<BR>Lori<BR>

Hi you guys,<P>Just wanted you to know that I am not ignoring you and what you've said...<P>I'm scouting around to see what others who have been through this type of thing have/are doing......<P>I am so torn about it all!!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

hi sheba, i will have to ponder this one. Your h is a whack-a-doodle alright! <BR>He sounds afraid to me? What are the chances of that? <BR>

Sheba, Honey, to use your own words-"WHACKADOODLE DOOOOOOOOOO!" This is just another "waffle" in the great waffeling of life! Don't even try to understand it, ask him, maybe he needs the confrontation to see what your seeing but he's not! Either way you have my prayers! God Bless!

Sheba, I got behind when I took a short vacation. It is taking a long time to go through all the post, boy we write alot. My counselor recomended a book for me to read. It is a daily meditation it is called "The Language of Letting Go" by Melody Beatie. Now it is not a book about letting go of your spouse, but it is about our recovery process. It is a guide that encourages us to deal with ourselves. It give a lot of insight in dealing withour pain. It start on Jan 1, so I skimmed through it till I got to the date I sarted reading and now I read it each day. It has really helped me. Please give it a try I really think you would like it andit would help in dealing with the pain you are going through. Actually I would recomend it to everyone here. Hang in there! I sometime think that is all we can do.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Sheba,<BR>I think we all know what your greatest hope is, but what do you think are your greatest fears?<P>Are you in conflict over how responsible you feel for your availablity to your H after the divorce?<P>Are you sensing that a continued relationship (of sorts) after the divorce would be unhealthy for you, but a life line for him, so you feel almost selfish if you did cut ties? Or do you fear losing the connection for yourself, but see how staying connected is emotionally draining?<P>Or do you think that two D people should actually be able to be friends, and you are beating yourself up over sensing you really can't be "just friends" in your own mind?<P>Sometimes if you can define what is really nagging you and why, it goes a long way to resolving your feelings.<P>We are here, you know. Don't feel you have to answer these questions, but do give them some thought.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi All -<P>I have to go to work and should already be in the shower, but I wanted to throw this out there to get your thoughts so I could ponder them over the weekend....<P>FHL - I feel all the things you mentioned and much more!!!!<P>When you said complex about me....boy is that an understatement...at this point it's chaotic!!!! LOL!!!<P>What we have here is two different sets of complexities!!!<P>I am of the mind that :<BR>A. I do not believe in divorce....It is a legal escape route and another quick and simple solution for people to not do anything difficult to fix their lives and better themselves. It rips apart families....It is spiritually killing!!<P>B. I can not dismiss people from my heart.....<P>C. I must follow my beliefs, morals and values.<P>D. I do not play games and am not good at strategic moves....I basically, come out and say what is in my head and heart.<P>E. I am an open book....I do not hide my feelings or emotions - you can read them on my face!!! So any pretending is caught in a flash!!<P>F. I truly care about others...<BR>sometimes to the detriment of myself as far as putting my needs or wants first, but never to where it bothers me to do so.. Who cares if I wait a bit...someone is happy and that makes me happy.....in other words - I can emotionally handle flexibility within myself.<P>There's more but these are the big factors right now....<P>Now on my H's part...<P>A. He used to be of the same mindset as me for the most part....and it was a struggle against his upbringing for him to maintain<BR> <BR>B. We had these major family background differences and before marriage we set up our "boundaries" of how to mesh them between us....we made sure of understanding where the other was coming from and how to work with each other to get to the middle ground.<P>C. He was independent from following a crowd....not a loner but could fit in with all<P>D. As honest and open as I, very self-aware and a man of integrity, morals and as clear a view of the future he wanted as one could be.<P>E. Family background of selfindugent parents who always took the easy way and had no problems stepping on others to do so....multi divorcings and the capacity to make others never exist in their own minds. All exes are non-existant!!!<P>F. A high degree of guilt factor...that is held in til eruption.... <P>My point is :<P>He is going against himself - will he stop? Who knows.<P>I am trying to plod along with all this mess around me and all of it in direct opposition to truth or any of my attributes.....<P>I have always maintained that I would not divorce....that's gonna be out the window....<P>I have always maintained that I would be here for him no matter what....<P>I have always maintained that his parent's dismissal of people is wrong and adds to their being the way they are. No heart......<P>I have always maintained that people make choices of how they behave and to change your own behavior to match someone elses is doing yourself a disservice and ultimately does nothing but create a bigger problem and hurt for the people involved.<P><BR>I havfe to go - I am late and wrote this quick.....hope it makes some sense..<P>Any words of wisdom?<P>I'll be back after work....<P>Thanks and HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR>