Hi
I just saw your response and I agree with your interpretation, I believe DD is trying to tell me the same thing.
I have not spoken to SH as yet, my H had said he also wanted to talk to him so I had told H to talk to him first cause after all, if after speaking with SH he was not minded to do the on line program then that would be the end of it and I would have to continue with my current counselor who at this moment I am not too thrilled with, anyway, because of the time difference there was some frustration in working out a time but I believe it is scheduled for tomorrow.
Thanks for asking.
By the way, DD leaves to go back to college this week coming and I think she wanted me to make a commitment to work on the marriage before she left.

Of course your DD is anxious for her parents' marriage to continue, for her family to continue intact. For her world to be put right too.

One of the most frustrating things about waywards is that they underestimate the pain and suffering they inflict. They think it's ONLY about THEM--and it IS--the A was something they did only for themselves! No one else's welfare was considered. So they refuse to look at how their spouse and kids take the hit for their selfish choices.

Until they come out of their self-justifying cocoon (aka the "fog"), they continue to believe that everyone else is making a mountain out of a mole hill..."C'mon! Get over it already!" they say/think, because they will not acknowledge the pain they've caused (despite the obvious signs of it).

Not sure how he does it, but Steve Harley has a way of breaking through that kind of self delusion. Good that you've got an appointment, and that your H is willing to talk to him. I do hope he will listen, understand, and climb on board. AND that he comes to express gratitude, like so many FWSs here, that you didn't kick him straight to the curb.

That part's gonna take time, though.

Think about how hard it must be to admit to yourself, and then to your wife and kids, that you've been crueler than Attilla the Hun and dumber than a box of rocks.

Sometimes a WS's pride prevents recovery--and sometimes it's the BS's rage and/or resentment. I hope none of those things stands in the way of recovery of your long term marriage.

And one more thing: Have you gotten rid of that bed yet? It a HUGE source of rage and resentment. Banish it!

Hi Everyone
Today I am not having such a good day.
WH and I drove DD to the airport, she has returned to college and now I am feeling sad, empty lonely, ugh! This is the first time WH and I will be alone in the house since D Day.
I took your advice and discussed with him the MB online program, then there was a suggestion I should speak with SH, I mentioned it to him and he replied that he also wanted to talk to him, so I told him well then I think you should speak to him first. His response was, get me the info and I will contact him, I responded saying, no if you are serious about this, you look up the information and do what needs to be done. Anyway, as it turns out, no conversation has occurred as yet, something with the time difference and some kind of problem with the phone number, remember we are in Central America.
DD had a talk with me last night and I am sure she had one with him also, she is concerned and at the airport she said please don't kill each other while I am away.
I am not so sure why I am feeling so discombobulated, any thoughts?
By the way, I have not had a rage episode for a while but 2 Sunday nights ago, I did in fact get angry and, well ummm, lots of LBs.

teaser, you're three and a half months from D-Day. Still early, although it feels like years already to you. There is so much hope here, really, assuming your H has finally ended ALL contact with OW. (Has he? Last thing I remember reading, he was only a couple of days into NC.)

It's good to see you're getting a better grip on the rage. Good old brain work instead of heart-ruling-head = Good! See if you can find a way to say what you need to convey while remembering it's LOVE you're making room for. It's really hard, and you won't be successful every time, but you'll gain on it. Lord, I wouldn't want to relive those days, but I'm glad I persevered through them.

Missing your DD hurts, and you're probably concerned that she'll be worrying about what's going on with Mom and Dad. She'll be fine as YOU get fine. Silver lining on the cloud: You may find it easier to make progress when there is no one else in the house (and no handy diversion to a third party).

My H and I were all alone for nearly the first two years of recovery. Made it easy to get lots of UA time, and to do the MB assignments without distraction. I was too emotionally upside down at the time to recognize it as such, but those months of MB lessons and the intense focus on US was something we critically needed. I guess everyone does when rebuilding from this kind of devastation. I'm grateful we had that time to ourselves. Hope it will work out as well for you.

BTW, If you're having trouble dialing internationally, there's a "Canadian" number buried in the MB coaching center section--should work from anywhere, since it's a regular Minnesota area code: 651-762-8570.

If that doesn't work, here's a phone directory listing for the marketing department 651-674-5983. I'm sure they could direct you. Try that other one first, though.

Good luck getting started. Thoughts and prayers with you.

RHW

Is there anyone on line who can give me a good definition of extraordinary precautions?

RHW I thank you so much for always being there for me, I truly appreciate it.
So here is an update, WH spoke to a coach last night finally and it appears that his assignment is to write down extra ordinary precautions. So, at least he has taken the first step, see one of the big problems both me and DD has been having with hi is that he keeps saying that he is willing to do whatever it takes to get the marriage back on track and yet we keep catching him in lies, either outright or by omission, that really ticks me off and then I tell him, you know what, just go, cause I can't deal with you any more, then DD would take him into another room, talk to him for a while, then he comes back with an answer.
So, I guess one of my issues now that DD is not here anymore is what happens when the next lie pops up? She has been my emotional prop, completely supportive and I now really miss her and feel lost without her, she has been extremely honest and outspoken with her father and that was a great help with me cause she was able to do it without all the drama that comes from me.
I think I recognize now that one of the internal struggles I am having is that my H really has done a lot of things to me and I feel that we really ought to be going our separate ways and the fact that we are still in the same house makes me feel like somehow I am settling for less than I deserve and that even to me I am coming across as pathetic.
I truly believe that he has maintained his NC, there is actually bitterness between them now, apparently she is truly disappointed that he did not leave me for her.
My other issue is that I see him trying to work on the marriage but somehow I am not feeling comfortable with his attempts because I feel like why does he have to "work on being with me" why did it not come naturally? did you feel this way? is this normal? how am I going to get past this? The sex thing of course is also another issue, if he has not wanted me for years, why would he all of a sudden want me? and can I trust what he is doing? I don't know.
I will give it the old college try but right now I feel hopeless.

And by the way, the answer is no, have not gotten rid of the bed as yet we were waiting to get DD off to school (with respect to the financials) first.
And yes, it is causing me problems big time.

hey guys
I am reposting the above hoping for some input, just caught WH in another lie about the nature of a previous affair that was also discovered on D Day, I am T-I-R-E-D. I truly am thinking that this is hopeless, I am going on a vacation, will see where I am mentally when I get back, otherwise my rage is going to come back, thank god for Lexapro!!

Teaser, as one myself, I relate to BWs "over a certain age," many years into their M's when they are blindsided by infidelity. "Older" couples have a long history, which often helps when it comes to investing in recovery. I am really pulling for you.

Good start that your H has maintained NC and has talked to Steve. (He turned my H around.) I hope Mr teaser takes this first assignment seriously...creating his list of EPs, the behaviors he will practice (and those he will avoid) to protect you and the marriage... The habits he will develop that will ultimately make him PROUD to be a man of honor, and YOU safe to be married to him. A lot resting on what he chooses to do next.

I hope he realizes that this is about separating the men from the boys... and that at 59 years of age, this could be his last chance to do that... and remain married. We'll see how much he wants to remain married. He will only make it work IF he is willing to exchange the easy dishonesty of SAYING what he'll do for the character involved in actually DOING IT. He must hold himself to keeping his WORD. You can help by tending your side of the street, or you can hinder or prevent progress with blame, failure to focus on yourself, love busters, etc.

And teaser, it is GOOD that your DD is away! It is not only unfair to her to triangle her into your marriage, but as you can see, it did nothing to change the dynamic between you and Mr teaser. Didn't change his behavior in the least if you're still catching him in lies.

You must connect directly with each other. Having an intermediary is crucial, yes, but let Steve, the professional with no personal/family relationship with either of you, be that outside influence.


Yes, I was affronted that my FWH had to "work" on being with me. It hurt a LOT because I didn't see myself as the monster he'd made me into in his head. Besides, HE'D hurt ME beyond belief...and I was willing to work with HIM! Seemed so upside down and unfair. But after a while I could see that demonizing me was what he HAD to do in order to JUSTIFY the affair and the lies. HE was "unhappy" and he didn't see it as HIS fault, so it had to be mine. Ask anyone here, they'll tell you the same thing. They will also admit that they weren't perfect, and contributed to the loss of love in the M in one way or another. That's the part we don't want to face, like there's stuff the WS doesn't want to face. But denying it doesn't make it not real.

It's gonna take some time for him to recognize (much less overcome) this "stinkin' thinkin'. Took time for him to wind himself into this way of thinking...while he's unwinding it, ignore it as best you can as you examine the stinkin' thinkin' YOU brought to the M over the years. I cringe as I remember the moment I started seeing mine...




He won't "all of a sudden" want you. Any more than he will "all of a sudden" be truthful. This is of a piece with the stinkin' thinkin' referenced above.

Surely over the years, things you said and did (or failed to say and do) encouraged development of his self-justifying ways of thinking...the making you the bad guy and him the poor, beleagered victim, suffering along... You know, the things we all do out of ignorance or selfishness. The independent behaviors, the prioritizing other things over spouse and marriage, like kids, jobs, schooling, volunteer work--whatever. Truth be told, WE were feeling some resentment over what THEY did/didn't do for US, making it easier for US to justify not being that totally dedicated wife we were when we walked down that aisle.

The whole thing is a dynamic. Husband's and wife's behavior playing off what the OTHER says, does, gives, withholds. Makes it easy blame the other while ignoring our own contribution. So tempting for the "faithful" partner to go all innocent and morally superior because we didn't do THAT...and fail to see our part in the deterioriation of the marriage that helped lead to its downfall (which is the only part we have control over fixing). So hard when we're destroyed by our partner's "Checkmate!" (affair), but our responsibility to see our own failings. And fix them.

If we don't, we're just as dangerous as the wayward spouse who blamed everything on us...

Is there anyone who can give me advice on a VAR and a sim card reader? I would like a recommendation as to what brand to buy or both? thanks.

Hi Righthere
You know I was under the impression that there were no replies, I just saw this and have read it over and over, I can see that you know exactly what I am going through and I want you to know that I am truly taking what you say to heart.
I want to say thanks again for responding, sometimes when I write and get no response I get to feeling really down cause I don't really have anyone who truly understands what I am going through, its almost as if they don't know what to say to me, the 5 year span is more than my friends(and me of course) can come to grips with and they are all telling me to kick him out, I believe that they are all wondering why he is still in the house.
So when I am feeling down this is where I come. When I don't get any responses it just send me deeper into my depression.
Right now I am on a trip to NY so I am only now going to get a copy of SAA and HNHN so I am behind in terms of where I ought to be I guess.

I understand that friends are telling you to kick him to the curb, because before my H had an affair, I was SURE that's exactly what I'd have done. A lot of us were sure that's what we'd do...

And then, it happened. And we find ourselves hesitant to throw our mate, our family, our marriage, our whole life away. A truly hellish position, hard to fathom if you've never been there. The BS's who went immediately into Plan D assume that's what YOU should do too. It would be understandably painful for them to consider that their M's could have been saved, that there WAS a way, but they didn't know it. Their decisions do not have to be yours.

Glad Mr. t spoke with Steve. Is he working on his EP's? There are some great threads by FWH's and the list of EP's they created, but I never bookmarked them. Look for posts by HPB ("her papa bear," formerly known as "tst"). I'll look for them, but maybe someone reading will already have it bookmarked and will post a link.

You can set up an email notification for when a response comes on your thread. Click "Add this thread to my watched topics" at the bottom before you post on your thread. Then go to the "My Stuff" button above the posts, choose "Watch Lists" from the drop-down menu. Then click "Watched Topics." You'll see "email notification" on the right hand side. Click the "Immediately" button next to your thread, and you'll be notified by email when a response comes through.

Maybe you can get an appointment with Steve while you're in the States. His advice would be invaluable to you. Let Mr. t work on his stuff, but get some guidance for you too.

Here is one of many good posts on Extraordinary Precautions. I trust HPB/tst is OK with my quoting him for Mr teaser's benefit, but if I'm out of line here, I'm sure someone will let me know.

Hi
I will try to get the appointment with SH. Thanks for the instructions, I am doing that right now, will let you know if it works-I am new at this technology stuff but the fact that I was able to break into my WH's e mail tells me all is not lost.

I obviously am doing something wrong because I got as far as the watched list but when I clicked on it I did not see the e mail on the right hand side like you said? what am I doing wrong? I clicked on "add this thread to my Watched Topics" then I submitted the reply, then I went to my stuff, then watched topics.....?

I am asking for some advice as to what brand of sim card reader is best, the ones that I am seeing appear to only be able to copy your contacts list, I also need some advice on a VAR?

Did you go to the drop down menu when you clicked "watch list and click on "Watched Topics?" This thread should be the only one there. THEN look for the email option.

Try hitting "refresh." If that doesn't work, maybe you could use the "notify" button at the bottom of your post and ask a moderator. Unless someone else here can show you another way...

Sorry I can't help you with sim card readers or VARs. Hopefully, someone else can.

I hope you'll be able to talk to Steve while you're in NY. He's in the Central Time Zone, and has appointments as early as 6 am (7 am Eastern/NY time).

OK.

Well here is an update, my WH went to a function last night which for him was an official function, meaning that he had to be there because it was being hosted by his job, OW and her H was there, which I find strange because I had heard they were getting a divorce but the thing is that she had to know my WH would be there given the fact that his job required him to. Thoughts?

I think you should attend all future functions with him.
Where did you hear they were getting a D? From your H? Does her BH know about the A?

Believe me I would have been at the function if I was there but I am currently in NY.
Actually BH had told me himself that he was filing for a divorce but the talk is all over town that he is so I am surprised that they were out together.
Yes BH knew of the A cause he was the first person I exposed to.