barbiecat,

I do know what I have done to my wife. I know that she thinks about what I have done every day and sometimes can't focus on her work, or can't start her day, or doesn't want to talk.

I used to say that my number one need was conversation and she looked back at my talking to the OW every day on my way home from work and said to herself that she can't compete with that (that our conversation has never been that important and therefore good).

Over time, we talked bout the type of conversation that this was. Usually me venting to the OW about my job situation and me finding value in it as she usually agreed with my opinion. She eventually saw that the conversation wasn't special to me, but rather me being selfish and someone supporting that view.

Because this happened for so long, conversation between the two of us is usualy strained. She doesn't feel like volunteering information about her job as she feels that I am not interested in her job or topics that she may want to talk about. (this can be attributed to me in the past not listening to her but rather waiting for an opportunity for me to talk more)

So, I know that I have to be open and honest and hope that over time, she will be more comfortable with/around me. I know that I have to ask about her day and engage her in conversation - and to stick with it daily. I know that I have to compliment her, be affectionate toward her - even in times where she is lashing out at me or is indifferent towards me.

I know that the only way things change is if I change and keep with it.

I know that I need to find a job that keeps me home/not traveling (but in today's economy - that has been difficult, bu I am trying).

I know that the work is all mine this time, and I know what I am close to losing, so I am willing to put in the work.

Good man! It takes extraordinary precautions to recover from a lifetime of serial cheating.

I said in a recent post that I don't feel that I have been a good guy that I can be better with affection, admiration and conversation.

I made a little checklist and put it by the phone (remember that, unfortunately my job has me away). A remember to do list:
- ask about her day, bring up topics for conversation.
- let her know how.where or why you were thinking about her during the day.
- offer up a compliment.
- apologize, don't argue, if she brings uo the past.

I've seen this mentioned elsewhere (in this forum) and since I know that I have a lot to work on - I thought it would help. A little bit of me feels like that is cheating (need a checklist, should come naturally) but think that it has benefits for those of us that have repeatedly dropped the ball.

Barbiecat made a comment about understanding what this has done to your wife.

Something that I struggle with is helping out my wife when there is something that doesn't add up. An example...

I am away on business with the OW and we kiss. Additional days are spent together and the kiss is not brought up or happen again.

I get back from the trip and decide to get in the car and see if something more could happen. Driving there, I realize that pursuing this could lead to the end of my marriage so I don't continue on.

My wife at that time (and subsequent times) says that my story (I put on a number of miles looking for a fast food place in addition to running errands) doesn't add up.

I eventually decide to come clean and tell her that I was on my way to her house but had second thoughts.

Initially, she is relieved because all along she suspected that my story was bs and that I did go to her house to sleep with her.

As time goes by and she thinks how the EA continued with the phone calls (and my denials of the phone calls/deleting them from my cell phone) and how upset/sick she would get with asking me to stop and me not stopping - that my story must not be true.
That what I finally said, although it makes sense, just doesn't add up. That it is telling her a plausible story that still is not the truth.

How do we deal with this? It is something that will lead to long conversations where the events get replayed and she is still upset/confused/angry and not sure if what I said is true.

My lying about the event for a long time before finally telling the truth and of course subsequent events where I am caught in a lie - can't bring an end to this and is a cause of great pain.

Is the only solution, continued openness and honesty on my part or is there something else?

Really could use some input.

WOW, you sound so much like my WH it is scary. I read your thread, his problem also seems to be the honesty thing.
I don't know how your BS feels, but my self esteem is taking a beating when I see how much of an effort he has to put in to being with me, to talk to me, because when I think about how many times a day he was in communication with OW I ask myself do I really want to pursue this.(I saw the phone bills and I read his e mails)
All I can say to you is God bless and good luck. Perhaps if you decided to throw caution to the wind and just be HONEST AND OPEN, it would ease a lot of BS's tension, we may not know what the truth is but we know when we are being lied to. It is hard to accept any gesture whatsoever from someone you feel is not being totally honest, it casts a dark shadow on everything you do.

My husband offered me the 'trickle truth' method of discovery.

Frankly, it was torture. I would have gladly paid him a million dollars if he would have just sat down with me one day and told me the entire story, in one sitting, like he was telling me a story about himself that I had never heard before. Details would have helped, but really, just TELL ME for the LOVE OF GOD.

No. Instead, it was like I had to be Matlock and figure out the exact question, word it in the exact way, use the exact words to elicit the precisely desired response about the extremely singular item of information I wanted. He would offer NO MORE.

I wanted to kill him (not in the literal sense, but my mind was considering options ). I was exhausted, frustrated, frenzied, angry, anxious, distrustful, and ready to walk out the door.

As far as he was concerned, he was "answering my questions".

But he was offering NOTHING!!!!


I reached the edge of hatred and beyond. It was at the point of my telling him that I read a research article about women who left their husbands around the six-month post-d-day point. It said that women who left at this point were those who felt like they had to do all the work, because their husbands would not participate in being OPEN AND HONEST about the events of the affair, and the wives tire of dealing with doing all the work to recover.

Where are you in this timeline????


My H was in shock. He thought he was sooooo cool, so coy. When I hit him with the very idea that I was done with his stupid game, he was back in the "I'm sorry" situation, and moped around again, like right after d-day. Not good enough.


I wanted the STORY. THE STORY THE STORY THE STORY THE STORY.


Do you get this???????? Do YOU GET THIS?????



Your wife deserves to know every detail that she wants to know, at any time. She should not have to drag it out of you. It is humiliating to have to ASK about this - and I know it is humiliating to have to answer questions about it, but hey,,,,,your wife isn't the one who had the affair. She should suffer no humiliation.

So, why not sit her down - take a whole day - plan this. Tell her that you just want to take the day and


YOU TALK.

Tell her....

It all started with OW when I thought......


and go from there.

Ask her to just listen, until you are done. Give her a pen and pad to write any questions down as you go along, and you will answer when you are done.

You will feel like a new man at the end. And YES, she will ask the same questions over, but this time, it will feel different.


SB

Schoolbus

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
I am going to send your response to my WH.
Can you do me a favor and read my thread under "confused"
I would truly appreciate the input.
Hey Guy-if you truly love your wife and want to make things better, please listen to what schoolbus has just said, read it again and again and THINK of all the unnecessary pain you are putting her through. I myself am truly at a point right now where I am thinking that this is all too much for me and perhaps I should just cut my losses and move on.

Acually, I felt that first I HAD to earna Million dollars, solve all the worlds problems, and bring everyone to Christ before I would ever get the truth....


Why do people screw arond when it comes to honesty? Are they waiting to have all the reasons and excuses for not being perfect first?

Doesn't our other half deserve to experience our mistakes too? Did we get married to manipulate someone or share life with them?

Bob and weave, shuck and jive. Never get 100% truth ...ever.

I get. "This is not helping the relationship..I refuse to ever speak of this again."
or
"You are being rude! So I am leaving."
"I am sick of talking about things that make me look like the bad guy."
and my personal favorite (from last friday..)

"If you do not have anything nice to say to me...do not talk to me at all."

It seems his actions can be "not nice" tho. Last time he was on Match.com he apologised, but 6 hours later claimed I had forgiven him and I was never to speak of it again.

Multiple DD's (of dating sites). He still does not think he has done anything seriously wrong.

Schoolbus

I re-read your post to me and I realized that I did not fully respond to your question.
You asked where am I in this timeline.
I am at that point where I am of the opinion that I need to walk away.
I have decided that this is all unfair to me having to take the responsibility of this marriage all alone. That cycle that you refer to? thats what has been going on in my marriage.
The lack of honesty?
Here it is, my WH had a 5 year affair. I have seen his phone bills for the 2 months preceeding D Day. Oh my god, they spoke on the phone at least 4 times a day, they IMed each other, they e mailed each other. He has admitted that the affair was not just about sex, it was a relationship. So my problem is this-he ended the affair as soon as I found out. Now when I ask him does he miss her, he says no, he does not miss her, does not think about her or anything like that, its just done. I tell him thats just not possible, I don't want him to give me the answer that he thinks I want to hear, I WANT THE TRUTH!!!! How could you have been in a relationship for 5 years and bring it to such a screeching halt? not possible, there has to be a weaning off process. He accused me of wanting him to admit that he was/is in love with OW and he will not do that because it is not true. I told him all I want is truth and honesty.
Like I said in my previous post, I may not know exactly what the truth is, but I do know when I am being lied to and as long as the lies continue, recovery is damn near impossible.

schoolbus,

You are absolutely right. I am in the process of putting together a timeline as I know that she remembers dates and times - whereas I don't recall that detail when first asked a question.

I will then right down the events, what I was thinking (or not thinking) and what I was feeling before and after.

I do then expect questions to come out, so I will go back and dedicate the time to think about a reply (instead of my usual react/over react, heavy sigh or roll of the eyes), that is an honest and open reply.

I do know that she is looking for honesty and openness and that is the only way to start the heeling process.

The best solution for this is to set up an appointment with a polygrapher and let him test your veracity.

Your wife could give you a list of questions beforehand and give you an opportunity to come completely clean beforehand. The polygrapher would then test your veracity himself.

This will give you an opportunity to PROVE your veracity and it will relieve her mind so she can leave the past in the past.

CGIR,

I can say this for certain: If my H rolled his eyes or sighed during this process, we would have been done with talking.

We would have been done, period.

Those types of reactions are disrespectful to her, do you see that? Those things are what teenagers do to parents to show disrespect.

How do you expect her to feel when you do these things to her? Is your expectation that she would feel respected and loved by your eye rolling or heavy sighing?

You communicate exactly what you desire with this behavior - your message is loud and clear:

I WILL DO THIS, BUT IT BUGS THE CRAP OUT OF ME. I FEEL LIKE YOU ARE BACK BOTHERING ME AGAIN ABOUT THIS, AND YOU THINK YOU ARE MY MOMMY. SO I'M GOING TO DO IT, AND SHOW YOU THAT I HATE IT. AND MY EFFORT IN THIS WILL BE


MINIMAL.

And your wife knows that you really don't care what she thinks, because you telegraph what you think with the eyes and the sighs.


You will get out of this exactly what you put into it.
If you put into it the efforts of a teenaged boy, expect the least. That's what you will get.


Somewhere down the line, have you ever decided that porn, secrets, lies, and eye rolling were things that you did in high school, and you WANTED to leave them behind?


Or is your plan to try to stay in high school mentally, and try to have a grown-up marriage and life, too?


I haven't seen that work, yet, but I've seen lots of people try it. So far, every single attempt has ended

in

divorce court.

Sorry to be the one to hit you with this 2X4, but give it some thought.


SB

teaser,

I will meet you on your thread, so as not to t/j CGIR.

Oh wow, I am glad you are rethinking this reaction. That would definitely be a turn off and an impediment to resolving your marriage problems that would naturally concern your wife.

Sucking it up and giving your wife the answers she needs and deserves will benefit your marriage in so many ways. It will help her trust you.

But if you act like a teenage gurl [eye rolling, sighing] she should rightly be suspicious and downright disgusted. No woman wants to see her own husband act like a gurl, so I am glad you are abandoning the drama queen act. Good job!

Ya know, it would be nice to find someone who said, "I don't know all the answers, but while I'm looking for them, I will tell the truth as best as I see it, even if it turns out, as it does most of the time, to just create new questions about the truth"

It isn't about being right all the time, God knows we never will be. Its about sharing our mistakes and victories as we work through them Why do people continue to play games and try to hide in some image they think we bought of them? Or maybe one they want to project or mold themselves into, at the expense of the marriage?

It seems simple to me that you can be as dumb as a post with the skillset of 0 along with every kind of malady you can imagine and still have a good marriage Yet some people become disatisfied with what they have and are told there is more that they should possess. Then they outsmart themselves. They already have it all.

Reading the other vets and posters has made me again realizes that "The wounds of a friend are faithful, but the kisses of an enemy are decietful" and the reason why I trust and respect the ppl here.


I am glad that you are here and taking the 2x4s so well, in time you will thank God for them.

CGIR

The more I read your thread the more I feel like you are playing a game.
One of your threads had a lot of I know this and I know that.
If you know so much then exactly what is your problem?
And rolling your eyes? what the heck is that? good lord, I was already feeling sorry for your BS but now....
oh my. This is so sad. A perfect example of adding insult to injury.

At least he admitted he does something so embarrassing. I don't think I have ever seen a grown man act like that and I would be disgusted to see such a spectacle. Truly, Cant, you can't imagine how cheesy it is to watch a grown man act like a hormonal teenage gurl.

Did your mother permit you to act like that? What did your momma do when you did that? Because you can bet my sons never got away with such gurly behavior. My boy, age 28, does not do that.

Melody

How is this for irony. He can't be open and honest with his wife about delivering the kind of pain and torture that he has so far delivered.
But he can be honest about doing something so "embarrassing?

Lord, please say it aint so.