@SW, yeah thanks! It was late and I couldn't get the energy to go back and see where that beautiful little story came from. Thanks, I try to be a good dad. She's so special and I've been so lucky to have her in my life.

@TAC and schtoop~
I've been thinking about this all day (and really for some time before). I sure do appreciate your insight and I know in my heart you're right. I've said I have no regrets at least up until the point DD was born. I can't imagine two better kids to raise.

Maybe it's some sort of defense mechanism but all I can focus on right now is everything from the annoyances to the downright nasty. From the provocations to the prohibitions to the deprivations. It's like the best times I can think of during the last 15 years were times when she just wasn't around. We had some great vacations, but there was always tension. She was always to hot/too cold/too medium, had a headache/backache/assache, wanted to go home early, watch t.v., didn't like cartoons...I'm sure this is all just as much a reflection of my own sickness as anything. IDK.

I suppose I'm feeling so vulnerable that I am afraid to feel fondness for anyone right now, especially stbxww.

Don't worry, your points are still very well taken, AC and schtoop. Right now, I just want to take my babies and dump the whole tub of bath water.

thanks again folks.

~~ Just got back from taking DD9 to Boston. We had some dinner then I bought her a hat she liked. We shopped a little more then came home. What a delightful evening.

Opt

I agree with what others have said. As I have noted in my own thread, my one regret with my failing marriage is that we never had a child. 9 years wasted...a child would at least make me feel like something good came out of it.

You are a great dad and the love you feel for your kids shows in each one of your posts. I think you might be too hard on yourself sometimes. MB principles are an awesome tool for marital and self growth, but remember that we are all still human and prone to be emotional and impulsive once in a while.

I actually think that's a very healthy part of grieving and getting through all this. I think it would be harder to heal and move on if all you did was think of the wonderful parts of your WW and your marriage.

And had to LOL at the assache...too funny. Think I just found a new nickname for STBXWH.

Thanks Sid. I suspect and hope you're right about having a healthy outlook at this stage. 30 days until it's final and I suppose in some ways I'm just holding my breath that nothing happens to upset the apple cart. I'd love the vindication I might feel if stbxww would finally admit that the mistakes she made destroyed something that could have been beautiful and life-long. But then again, I'm okay with the divorce and moving on since I don't remember being all that satisfied with the M anyway; so if she de-fogs anytime soon that puts the onus on me to enforce my boundaries (something I obviously suck'd at for 20 years). I would need help doing that, and I know you guys will step up if it comes to pass.

Funny, after I wrote that post about my 'defense mechanism,' I was helping coach my son's baseball team and stbxww managed to sit just in my line of site from dugout past home plate. I couldn't really avoid seeing her on the bleachers. Well, she is awful cute and certainly doesn't look all of her 46 years. People like her and she's pretty vivacious and most find her fun to be around. She did laugh at some of my jokes, and she new how to plan an elaborate vacation on the cheap.

But overall, that woman has a lot of work to do before I would consider getting involved with her more than just as the other person raising my kids. Maybe it's unfair that my standards have changed. I didn't want them to change. The experience of being cheated on and lied to and gas-lighted and humiliated changed my standards. That experience lead me here and allowed me to re-evaluate everything in my life. I'm glad that happened. My standards are higher, and I feel I'm living in a different moral stratosphere. I'm pleased with that. If this is the person I was meant to be, then that marriage wasn't good for me.

By projection, I don't think it was good for my kids either; the path we were on had to be changed. Is the new path better for them? Best case scenario was stbxww came to her senses and joined with me in building a M all four of us could thrive in. She unfortunately decided to 'follow her heart' instead, and shun a methodology with a proven record for helping. Maybe I could have been more persuasive. Maybe I could have run a better exposure, Plan A, and tried Plan B.

But I'm not going to go too far down that road. Rather, everything in life happens for a reason, when it's supposed to happen. I know I tried. Good things are already starting to happen and that will continue, that's for sure.

Right now, I wonder if anyone will ever fit into my life. One go-around with marriage might be enough for me. I guess we'll see.

opt

PS: Sid-T, I'm glad you got a chuckle from my post.

Thanks IM. You're totally right, I've been blessed with many gifts from this marriage. I've been accused more than once of taking things too seriously. It's a special skill, I guess.

hoping you're okay, Invincible.

opt

Hey folks!
18 days and counting to the day when this nightmare of a marriage is officially over.

I had to put this down on �paper� because it�s just so bizarre it needs to be documented. This is like the last scene in a cheesy mini series that has been my life since I met my bovineSTBXww.

Prior to leaving for vacation as you know, I pretty much had influence over my wifes poor decision to continue to spend time openly with OM#2. I had explained it�s extremely disrespectful and was hurting our children�s view of marriage, etc. She has abided by my request to at least keep it away from the kids (apparently they don�t spend any time together, okay-fine).

So get this: All summer DD9 has been spending time at a friends house where her dad is a part time dad/part time work (own business) AND separated 5 months from a cheating wife. So of course there have been times when the girls where playing and stbxww would stay and chat when she would pick them up. Then stbxww would watch his daughter (in exchange) and he would do the same. NBD. Well, then towards the end of the summer it got to be them all (including my DS14) going to neighborhood parties (barbeques and the like) on nights when stbxw had them. That probably happened 2-3 times to my knowledge. I�m thinking �whatever, at least it�s not OM#2.�

Well, yesterday stbxw was supposed to pick up my DX14 for baseball at noon. At 1205 I call to see where she is �I�m on my way I had to stop at (OM#3�s?) house.� When she got there 15 minutes late she explained that she had to go look at color swatches (he�s painting something). Now, this guy prides himself in his �eye for color� and is a painter/contractor ~ he would never need anyone�s oppinion on color. Anyway it was the first time he and her had made an excuse to get together (however briefly) without the kids being involved in one way or another. Now today I just called to see if DS14 needed a ride to his baseball game (I�m going anyway) and it turns out that GUESS WHO and his daughter will be attending.

So if this isn�t one thing - check this out:
I have never been one to have a lot of close friends. I guess that�s a problem I have, one I want to explore as a divorced man. Especially the last 15 years it�s been family, kids, wife, and acquaintances in whatever social environment I find myself - maybe LL baseball coaches, bowling team. So about 2 years ago I started developing a friendship with this one guy, I�ll call him Charly, and we got pretty close around the time both our wives started having affairs. We played pool together and had some beers before I stopped drinking. Anyway Charles is the closest thing I�ve had to a �best friend� in my adult life.

You know who Charley is? Yup you guessed it: OM#3.

I couldn�t make this up, folks.

Not2Fun was right. She's a COW.

opt

I'm sorry Opt. That is atrocious. You will be so much better when you can get away from her! She has no boundaries whatsoever!

Wow, opt, look at you, willing to see things how they really are, even when it isn't easy. Don't worry, you'll make new, better friends, ones that know it isn't cool to date your best friend's stbx.

Wow Opt- that just sounds like a BAD (really bad) Lifetime movie! Seriously, unbelievable!

So glad this is almost over for you, you deserve so much better. Keep moving forward and believing you're moving closer to a better, drama-free life....it will happen!

Thanks you guys, I knew you'd be there to pick me up!
Turns out Charlie didn't go to the game, DD9 stayed with him to hang out with his daughter which I found out was totally her choice (I asked strategic questions). Mitigating only - if either of them had respectable boundaries, they simply wouldn't be hanging out unless it had direct relation to the childcare situation. I am not sure what they were doing at stbx's house prior to the game (@9am), but really don't care. My kids will look back in embarrassment one day at her current behavior.

I decided to join a pool league with a friend who I never spent much time with but is really a genuine good guy. He has no kids and a very devoted wife, and he's very Christian. The league meets on Tuesday, the night I was previously planning to bowl. Charlie's in that bowling league. Suddenly bowling isn't sounding like as much fun as pool. Plus pool is mixed league.

Thanks again so much for all your encouragement. I'm going to be fine.

opt

I just can't get my mind around your friend doing this to you.

And I'm not surprised that he didn't come to the game.

Every decision we make is closely watched by our children, nothing gets by them, and they are learning from you and the ex everyday. No doubt, they are learning what they don't want to be and what they do.

Honor, Integrity, Love, Character, Truth, are not sexy but at the end of the day are what we are all drawn to. As you provide that environment to your kids you will win the war. you will see it as the kids mature.

Stay the course opt, you will prevail

Opt! I'm still with you - can't believe how your story is turning out. Can't even make something like that up.

I'm glad you're coming to a point where you can start over. You deserve better.

Linus

Thanks Line! I knew you were out there somewhere.

I really have to try to refrain from trying to figure out what the hell she's trying to do. It's doing me no good. I feel I need to try to understand it to some extent however, because, again, my kids are involved and I want to do what I can to minimize the damage if and when that opportunity presents itself. At this point I don't see any particular action being more effective that time itself which will eventually show both kids that their mother has zero boundaries, poor moral compass, and is colossally self-centered. She is going to crash and burn emotionally at some point, and my kids are smart enough to understand that it was her choices and her lifestyle that ultimately caused her so much pain. Until then, the party of life goes on for a 46 year old teenager.

As for my FBF, if you're going to have a lack of boundaries, I can't say I blame him. She's a fun, bubbly, attractive, intelligent, sociable, likable woman. I'd want to hang around with her if I didn't know who she really was, that she's a lost mess inside.

I wonder if STBXWW is simply trying to push the parameters of her "friendship" philosophy in my face in an effort to make the whole thing seem normal and acceptable. Like a teenager who gets busted for drunk driving and then does it again, as if to prove it can be done without any consequences. ("See, I didn't crash or kill anyone, so what the he77 were you so upset about?!"). Pure defiance.

I also wonder if this isn't some blatant attempt to drag me back into some sort of drama. She's always been most comfortable with drama. That's her nature. She thrives on crisis. She knows how I view friendships between opposite sex people.

I'm reluctant to just ask what she's up to directly, because I really don't feel I could trust her response to be anything more than further attempts to manipulate me.

opt

ugh, I just got off the phone with her. she literally called while I was writing that post.

I did ask if she had considered my feelings before developing her relationship with "Charlie." She said she did and felt that since "he is a good person" I would accept it as, I don't know, some sort of pure as the driven snow bond handed down from the gods or something. Oh, and she said it was a friendship of convenience (with the childcare situation and all) - meanwhile she was just returning from his house with a few folks having lobster. Now THAT's convenient, lol!

Let's just say that the rest of the conversation consisted of me setting some serious boundaries. No voice raised. No disrespectful judgments. No AO's.

I told her he is NOT a good person (based on his relationships with several married and single women and he's not even started the D process yet). I said I judge people on their actions, and his actions are not honorable. And I said her actions were continuing to teach the wrong thing to our kids, but that she was going to have to live with that. I said her actions were despicable to me and that it seemed to me like she was simply trying to normalize a f**k-ed up approach to life and I didn't want to be any part of it. I asked her to stop inviting me to various events and that I wasn't interested in any interactions with her that didn't directly involve the kids, period. Business only. And then I said I had to hang up because I was getting upset.

I'm so glad I have developed some sense of boundaries and have worked hard to understand MB principles. I have a long way to go. But feeling strong in my ability to take care of myself emotionally, without succumbing to the bass-ackwards logic of a woman who never grew up like I did for 20 years, is a good feeling.

opt

man am I glad I didn't start dating. How much more complicated could this be if I was involved with someone or if I had comprimised my own personal code of integrity? thanks again MB folks for keeping me on the right path.

Sorry for the BS you have to deal with Opt,
After reading the threads on here, going through this crap myself; I have come to the conclusion that we really can't make this stuff up. I have to wonder, what is truly wrong with our society? And it seems to continually get worse. What are we teaching our children?

Welcome to the world of the surreal! I've learned to never be surprised by the actions of a wayward.

I think some of what's going on here with Charlie is the struggle to establish her "turf" and to prove to you that she doesn't have to shy away from any of your mutual friends (especially men) because of the divorce. It's kind of a way of showing you that she did nothing wrong, that your friends aren't judging her like you do. Not to say that it might not end up a relationship, especially with your STBX's lack of boundaries, but I don't think that was necessarily her intent going in.

She was probably wanting to see if she could get under your skin a little, and you played right into that one.

Now for a little preaching. You are just 18 days away from finalizing everything. It's time to really work on detaching and not worrying about her lack of boundaries anymore. It really isn't you concern, now. I know you are worried about the message it sends the children, but all you can do is set the example and try your best to instill your values with the time you have with them. Believe me, they will notice and you will have a great influence.

I think someone posted the article on detachment a few pages back. It is something we all have to work on.

Boundaries. I started making progress once I FINALLY understood what that's all about. Notice I said that I started making progress. I'm not sure Mrs. Linus is with me on that yet. That being said, her attitude toward me has been much better lately - I feel a little respect. Sure wish I had figured this out months ago.

Opt - schtoops post above is right on - time to start distancing yourself as much as possible. Telling STBXW to stop inviting you to events not directly linked to the kids is the right thing to do. Stay strong, my friend. Stay with your boundaries.

Forgive me for not remembering this, but have we diagnosed her yet? Personality disorder, perhaps? (I'm only half-way kidding here).

I guess one thing I'm not quite understanding is, here you are days away from being final and you're still working so hard to try to make her understand your point of view on things? OPt, she doesn't get it and she probably never will!!! It would be nice to see you put that time and energy into something that would actually make a difference!

Hey Sid! I'm starting to think I'm the one with the psych diagnosis! lol,

You know, I totally hear you and I think you folks are all basically urging me in the same direction. I know you are right. Confession: I've had two more conversations with her and based on the last one, Sid- you hit the nail square on the head. She doesn't get it. Although she is remorseful (that was conversation #1: somewhat redeeming), she is now back to weak justifications and blame-shifting. I HAD TO stand up for myself and let her know I didn't ACCEPT her "explanations," I really felt it was important for me to not be her fool as I've been for so many years. Ultimately, I really feel quite ambivalent towards her personal recovery except as it relates to the kids (I'd love to have them being raised the other 50% of the time by someone who has raised their level of consciousness), but I realize that is totally out of my control.

One thing I was able to get off my mind (conversation #2) that was giving me trouble moving forward was the fear that some day (all too soon) she would come to some sort of an epiphany and start talking reconciliation. With my new found sense of boundaries I was able to simply ask point blank if she thought that was a possibility. Thankfully, she said "no." That was a relief.

I'm feeling pretty good now. I'm feeling in control and like I've tied up some loose ends. At this point I just want to eat up the last 15 days of my married life and put it to rest peacefully.

Thanks again so much to everyone who has taken the time to offer thoughtful input.

opt

I just wanted to address a couple insightful points. Things have moved quickly for me the last few days and I didn't have a chance to do that before.

Preach away, Sh2p. You know I value your opinion even though we don't always agree on everything. You're totally right and I'm trying to get a handle on this. I will lead by example with my kids. I know they're smart enough to pick out the sh~t from the shin-ol-a. And now I really have to get on with my business of detaching, like folks have been saying since I came to this board.

I don't know about society as a whole. This group of people that my STBXww has gravitated to are all alike in their understanding of boundaries and propriety, and lack there of. I fear for their children. I suppose we could have easily joined that group and been none the wiser. Fortunately, we found MB and gravitated to it instead.

This is the kind of "friend" who I really tried to help for months with daily phone conversations and support. While I should have been working in many cases. I finally figured out he wasn't listening to a word I was saying. He didn't come to the game for the same reason he suddenly stopped calling me for "advice" around the time he started spending more time with my STBX.

Amen, SC. Amen. Thanks for saying it.

As soon as I read this I called my friend that I mentioned, in the pool league. I know I will find new and better friends, but I also know it will take some effort on my part. Thanks for the encouragement.


Thanks again to everyone helping me navigate the latest b-u-m-p in the road to recovery.

opt