I have known about marriage builders for about 3 years now but never posted. I hope that I can get some good advice and meet some great listeners.

My husband and I have been married for over 10 years and have two beautiful children. Our daughter is 8 years old and our son is 7 years old. Our problems become very noticeable in our 5th year of marriage. We disagreed on most everything from house keeping to raising the children. We dealt with it for awhile but soon both of our frustrations took over and neither one of us could keep it together.

Over the next three years we separated 4 times and filed for divorce twice. Our last separation was the longest, 5 months and 3 months into the divorce process. This time I had my mind made up, I was moving on and getting over the hurt. I was in search of a new life and was willing to give what ever it took to find myself and happiness again.

About 4 months into this last separation my husband decided that he wanted to give “us” another try. My first reaction to this was no way in hell will I go back to what I was in that lonely and cold place that we called a marriage and family unit. Being on my own this last time gave me so much strength and empowerment to find myself and become the happy and outgoing person I was when I first married. I liked who I was and was very afraid that I would lose the true me if I gave “us” another try.

After late nights of long talks over the phone and through emails we both decided to go for counseling, something my husband had been so against in the past. Since he was willing to do this and do anything to save “us”, I felt this time could be different and that I owe it to our children to try and save the family one more time. So back in I move and explain to all my friends and family that we are trying again.

So this brings us to the future. Were back under the same roof safe and sound and that in its self is more than enough to be thankful for and so far so good. We have decided to take one day at a time, baby steps into building a solid, happy and successful marriage. Our real problems are with money and bills that we have acquired together. My husband makes much more than I do and so he has always felt that it’s his money and that if I want nice things that I should work harder and buy them myself. I don’t mind working but when I do I still have the house hold to look after and the kids to take care of. My husband is an outstanding dad but as we all know being a mom is a 24/7 job, we get no breaks.

I want to work and be in touch with adults. I want to be known for an individual and not just someone’s wife or someone’s mom, but I can’t do all and don’t want to pretend that I can. I have agreed to work in the mornings while the kids are in school (after school day care just kills us) and that would give us extra money to have fun with. The older the kids get the less they will need me and I can work more.

My main issue with our marriage is how do I overcome the guilt that my husband makes more than me and how does he over come the feeling of resentment that he is the sole provider?

Any feed back or encouragement would be greatly appreciated.

You can't.

Loves, I am fairly new to MB myself, but I would suggest reading over the MB concepts and have your H do this too. If he is interested in working on your M, then he will probably be open to reading and discussing these concepts with you. Marriage is a partnership and less about "your" and "my" money or whatever. Let the fact that he seems willing to work on your marriage at this time encourage you to approach him with this.

Hi Loves,

You've got alot of positives going on. Have you two been in MC? Have you done the Emotional Needs Questionaire? How about His Needs/Her Needs book? If not, RUN and do them! If he's truly in the 'Save My Marriage' state of mind, then it's time for him to put his money where his mouth is, so to speak <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

It sounds like he's still not getting it. His insecurities about money are affecting his marriage (yes, HIS, not yours). You two need to really get to the bottom of this issue, or next time you probably will not be tempted to return.

FS (financial support) is a legitmate, real need. Can you get him to MC to discuss this, specifically? If he is willing to do anything, hold him to it. Explain how you see yourself falling into the old thinking of wanting to leave, that you really need his help on this issue. If FS is a real need of yours, then when you start meeting your own need, you might think you need him less... not good, either. (may as well leave, what the heck? kind of thinking)

You feel guilty because he makes more $. Ask him if that is how he wants you to feel, if that's what he intended? I'd bet it's not. Good luck - Dru

<small>[ January 23, 2004, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Drucilla ]</small>

Hello, I am the evil husband "loves" is referring to :holding outstretched pinky to chin:

The thing 'loves' didn't tell you is that she has very expensive tastes such as:

-a 2001 Chevy Tahoe SUV that costs a total of $720 per month (pymt, gas, insur)

-a 'cosmetical' bill that runs $130 per month

-a $5,000 credit card maxed out @ $100 per month

-a Macy's card @ $50 per month

So that's $1,000 in bills I did not incur, let alone even have a part in DECIDING on. I wasn't even consulted on these bills. Loves told me I would never have to pay a penny of the 'cosmetic' bill because her mother was paying it (which turned out to be untrue). She bought the Tahoe when we lived apart. Same with the credit card which she ran up on a video cam, digital cam and other things while we were apart (she lived partially off her credit card because she didn't want to work)

I never even got to play a part in these decisions. Even if Loves works part time, she won't even make enough money to cover these bills. That leaves US *NO* money after my paycheck covers a $2,300 mortgage, another car payment and utlities. NO MONEY for vacations, NO MONEY for fun, NO MONEY for savings, NO MONEY for our kids future, NO MONEY for ANYTHING extra whatsoever.

It's frustrating. Loves gets her hot Tahoe on 22" wheels, her 'cosmetic' upgrade, her awesome house, beautiful looks, beautiful kids, free time to chill out and watch TV during the day, etc etc and I get... well.. I gfet to go to work and pay for it all.

Hmmm. I wonder why I'm frustrated. I feel like my wife should work full time and make a nice living doing something she enjoys, and we should share all of the house responsibilities and child rearing duties.

OK, so why not do that? Sounds reasonable right? Wrong. Can't do that. Loves won't split the duties with me. She's a perfectionist and won't let me help her with the house or kids. She wants to do it all herself. But she can't when she's working full time.

This is a no-win situation for US unless Loves agrees to get into a field where she can net around $2,000 per month.

She wants NICE THINGS, a GOOD LIFE, FREEDOM and FUN and expects me to do all the sacrificing to make it happen. I have to do the commute, the grind, the co-workers, the career field that bores me to tears, etc etc to support OUR life! I thought marriage was a partnership. I wanted to be a partner, not a caretaker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I love my wife more than words can say, but her double standards (namely wanting the good life and expecting me to foot the bill) are very, very frustrating sometimes.

HR

<small>[ January 23, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: HighRize ]</small>

I see two people who are more concerned with being right than being married. Read the Basic Concepts on the home page here and learn about Disrespectful Judgements and POJA.

I couldn't care less about being "right," I'll GLADLY be "wrong" if the bills get paid somehow. We are not competitive. We simply can't agree on this money issue because she wants the good life and wants me to work for it while she gets to chill out and enjoy it and I get to do nothing but work.

I think it's pretty straightforward... but the solution is anything BUT..

What's your stand on DJ's and POJA?

In my opinion, if you two can agree on these things you will be steps ahead and not have so many conflicts:

1. To run purchases over $100.00 thru each other so that each agrees on the purchase.

2. To develop and agree on a workable budget.

3. If you want nice things you both have to agree to work. One should not be supporting the other ones nice things unless both agree on this.

4. To agree on selling things, paying off credit cards, getting loans off your backs in order to take money pressures off you both.

5. To agree to lock up credit cards and keep your credit good. To agree that the one who has run up the credit card must work and pay it off. Before buying any more luxury items.


I could go on and on. Lets just say you need to agree that your marriage and your love for one another is more important that continuing these disagreements about money, In other words, you must love each other to come to some good written compromises regarding money.

If you do not love each other enough to do this, then go get a counselor to help you do this or maybe your love is so dead there is no hope. I think you still love each other enough to compromise, develop a good budget, and be financially happy. Both will have to sacrifice equally.

I value all Dr Harley's concepts. I'm not trying to be judgmental of my dear wife.. and her GUILT is her own.. she KNOWS she has it GOOD and she knows I'm doing all the work to support it. YOU would feel guilty, too. ANYONE would.

I NEVER tried to make her feel guilty by asking for her help to support OUR GOALS. And yes, fun, vacation, our nice home, our nice cars, etc.. those are OUR goals.. I just want some help with them. It's not my fault she feels guilty when I ask her for help and she's not inclined to give it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love you , dear wife <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Baba2.. well said! I couldn't agree more. It is about sacrifice and compromise. I totally agree with your asessment 100% . No one person should have to carry the burden.

Thank you

Ok, we've got two very one sided stories,here. Loves, I came out in your corner, but HR is sounding pretty rational... Care to rebuff?

Couples must work together within the limits of their budget. Period. Sacrifices must be made for the good of the family. Mounding debt is a horrible thing to live with. Good luck - Dru

I never said that I didn’t want to work or even work hard for what I have and want. I just can’t do it all. When my h comes home he gets to relax and my day begins the 2nd shift.

Yes I am picky about the house, it should stay neat and organized: I feel it’s a sign of pride. I try to teach the kids that their room and toys should be well taken care and hopefully they will carry that through life.

When I do stay home I’m not sitting on the sofa eating bon bons getting fat. I’m running errands for the family, planning dinner and waiting for the kids to come home so I can help them with homework, feed them, bath them and get them ready for bed. These are all things I do so my h doesn’t have to. I will say that recently when I ask my h to help he is very responsive and will do the task with a smile.

I know it is important to my h that he has an equal partner and has someone that he can rely on. I want to be that person but I to have needs and want to feel no matter how small those needs are they are still valued and important to the rest of the family

How about as a first step you both consider trading in the Tahoe on a car that has a smaller payment and uses less gas? That would help take a little of the financial burden off and ease a little of the tension. Keep a car with a high payment that is a bone of contension is just NOT a good thing, it builds ones resentment and the others guilt. There can be time later for a bigger hotter car.

Cosmetics, well, stuck there, that is a basic that makes her feel good, look good, and I am sure that you like her to look good.

For help with the domestic responsibilities, check out www.flylady.net

Realize that though it may feel to each of you that you are alone in this that there are ways to compromise and work through it as a team. You both have to sacrifice and you both have to give. That is marriage.

It is obvious that you both love each other, so in light of that love it seems that giving up a few luxuries for now is worth keeping the love alive and the family together.

Each of you can make a list of what you are willing to do and willing to give up and them talk through both lists see if there are common things that have been overlooked due to the tension these discussions lead to. Go into as a battle between the two of you against the debts. Don't keep focused on the problem, keep focused on finding solutions.

Thank for the good advice on the Tahoe but I’m upside down about 5k on it and unable trade it in. Does anyone know what I can do in this situation to lower my payment or even sell the truck with out loosing out on too much money?

Well, You could always put it on ebay for auction with a reserve price of what you owe on it. IF it doesn't sell then you can look at other ideas, if it does, then it gets you out from under the payment.

I want everyone to know that I love my h very much and never indented him to feel the entire financial burden. In my last posts I failed to disclose that I came from a very dis functional family and try very hard not to bring my kids up that way. My mom was a stay at home mom but I never benefited from it. My mom hated life and covered it up with drugs and alcohol and was not afraid to let me see that side of her.

I want nothing more to be all to everyone but I’m afraid that I don’t know how to balance it all.

I’m asking for advice on how to be the best for my family.

Try looking at "thedollarstretcher.com". I have found mounds of helpful advice on everything from cars to managing a household on very little to party ideas and cooking ideas. My H and I have gone through some hard financial times and have learned that there are many things that many people have that we decided we could do without. I am a stay at home mom, but we found this to be cheaper and better for us than childcare. You will have to work together to agree what will work best in your situation. Take an honest look at other things you can agree on and be willing to give up, at least for the time.

Hi Loves,

So, I'm still not sure what you are asking... let me ramble...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want nothing more to be all to everyone but I’m afraid that I don’t know how to balance it all. I’m asking for advice on how to be the best for my family.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The quick answer here is, that more Money and Stuff is NOT the answer on how you can be the best for your family. I know tons of rich, unhappy people. I had a crappy, but poor mom. I'd traded crappy for Sweet and kept the poor, any day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My husband makes much more than I do and so he has always felt that it’s his money and that if I want nice things that I should work harder and buy them myself. I don’t mind working but when I do I still have the house hold to look after and the kids to take care of. My husband is an outstanding dad but as we all know being a mom is a 24/7 job, we get no breaks.

I want to work and be in touch with adults. I want to be known for an individual and not just someone’s wife or someone’s mom,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This REALLY belittles the significance of your motherhood, is that what you intended? Did you always plan on going back to work after you had children?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but I can’t do all and don’t want to pretend that I can. I have agreed to work in the mornings while the kids are in school (after school day care just kills us) and that would give us extra money to have fun with. The older the kids get the less they will need me and I can work more. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you are asking for HR to do more work around the house and with the kids so you can take a job. HIGH RIZE? Is that the question, and are you refusing?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My main issue with our marriage is how do I overcome the guilt that my husband makes more than me and how does he over come the feeling of resentment that he is the sole provider?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That really doesn’t seem like the problem. The problem is that you really want to work outside the home, but HR isn’t totally on board because of the extra work for him? What does HE get out of it? Seems like you & the kids would get nice things, but he looses nice at home time with his wife AND has to do more work... I can see how he would not be crazy about the idea...

See, I came from a SAH mom who was depressed and drugged out half the time. I got ZERO benefit. But you really have a chance to be much better than that, don’t you agree? I'm not saying you shouldn’t get out, and maybe take a small job, but it seems you really have a down attitude about this Wife and Mom thing. A job alone may not help as much as you think?

What do you think? Thanks - Dru

Taking care of the kids is not "The good life" . It's a full time job. If you had to pay someone to do that it would be quite a lot of money, not counting what it would cost to pay someone to make meals. SO, if you want to be looking at if from the financial perspective find out the cost of a full time live in child care worker + cook + maid, add that up and that will be what your wife should be paid doing all of the stuff that you label "the good life".

Get your perspectives in line about what your wife's work is really worth and this money problem won't be such a problem.

A women who is living the "good life" is a woman without children who is living at home doing much of nothing and living off of her husband.

Thanks for the reply.

Drucilla, you're a bit off the mark, I think. Here it is from my perspective.

Loves wants affection, all her recreational and quality time requirements met, an outgoing, hardworking provider, a great listener, a friend, a great father to discipline and teach our children, a beautiful SUV, vacations, an immaculate house inside and out, a safe neighborhood with great neighbors and a brand new school the kids can walk to in the morning...

BUT...

She wants - and EXPECTS - me to carry the burden to make all of these things happen. In fact, she is very content to work part time and make enough to pay for her 2001 Tahoe and its gas and insurance (which total about $800 per month) and that's it.

Forget the electricity bill at $200 to power the house 24/7, the gas bill for the hot showers and cozy temperature, the HOA, the groceries, the trash, the water.

I mean, these things cost a FORTUNE! Sometimes I wonder if she is truly aware of the expenses WE as a family incur. And why in hell should I have to foot the bill for all of the things WE share while she sleeps in and is too tired to make love to me at night?

Too tired? From what? I don't know. She doesn't know either. She says when she was in her apartment she had all this energy and now she is burnt out. I know why. SHe doesn't have to do anything. Complacency makes EVERYBODY lazy. Laziness results in being tired all the time and eventually depression. It's happened before and it's happened again.

I want Loves to work.. not just because of the money, but I think being out in the world and having challenges, getting your blood going keeps you alert and learning and growing with your spouse. But if Loves works, she's afraid she can't keep with the house. Why? Because she won't share chores with me.

I've even made a list of shared chores and hung it up in the kitchen and she has completely ignored it, even after agreeing to it.

She won't let me help out around the house. SHe won't even let me run errands when I offer (last night was a good example).

I feel like Loves is molding our RELATIONSHIP so it meets all her needs and completely ignores mine. I have worked SO hard to be communicative and open and listening and doing things Loves enjoys doing and being there for her and helping out around the house (cleaning carpet, helping move, furnishing rooms, shopping etc) and Loves couldn't even take 5 min to hear a song I'm working on all the way through yesterday.

I don't want to lose control of this relationship again as we have in the past.. but it's starting to slip because *I* feel Loves is going off into her own world again ... impatient and not shoing interest in what's important to me, defensive when I share my concerns, short with the kids, complacent, having no energy, sleeping in all morning while I'm at work paying our bills..

We have a lot more issues than I thought and it makes me very sad. We were off to such a great start.

We have another counseling appt. Wednesday. I hope Loves doesn't lose interest.

Lee43.. YOu've missed the crux of this thread. Loves is not just a 24/7 mom/wife by design. She won't LET me help her around the house. I WANT to help!! I can't! She's an excessive-compulsive cleaner and won't let anyone help. She is NOT a 24/7 mom/wife by CHOICE. SHe won't let me participate in these decisions. She has to do it all her way. I guess I would appreciate her position more if I supported it, but I've never got to have a say.

Lee43.. YOu've missed the crux of this thread. Loves is not just a 24/7 mom/wife by design. She won't LET me help her around the house. I WANT to help!! I can't! She's an excessive-compulsive cleaner and won't let anyone help. She is NOT a 24/7 mom/wife by CHOICE. SHe won't let me participate in these decisions. She has to do it all her way. I guess I would appreciate her position more if I supported it, but I've never got to have a say.

And when she DOES stay home with the kids and pick them up from school and all, she is SO tired by nighttime she's sound aasleep by 9pm.

Yeah, some "good life" for me too

And by "good life" I meant the vacations, the house, the cars, the STUFF.." My JOB is no walk in the park either.

And you sound like a man-hater <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

HR, I'm confused about something. You call your W lazy and say she doesn't do anything, yet you also say she is compulsive about cleaning the house. These are exact opposites. How do you approach her when you offer to help? It sounds as if neither one of you is really communicating effectively with the other. And maybe you have been trying to communicate but the way in which you are doing this is like trying to speak Martian to someone who only speaks French! Perhaps you both are not meeting each others ENs as well as you think. It looks like both are struggling for who will have CONTROL rather than thinking about what is in the best interest of the M.

And as one who has worked outside the home and is currently a sahm, I would not appreciate receiving the remark that somehow an outside job would do me good, as if I had no idea what life is all about.

ttkm

Lots going on here...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And why in hell should I have to foot the bill for all of the things WE share while she sleeps in and is too tired to make love to me at night?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Loves, I've noticed that H's who are satisfied sexually dont protest much about the other things... I see his point, he seems to feel he is already at the bottom of the list.

Does all this work satisfy you and make you happy? Do you really feel HR cannot help with housework? You know the world wont end if everything is not perfect?? It's all a balancing act, but it seems you are trying for too much? you know noone really has it all, right? What do you think about HR's last post? - Dru

I'm really at a loss. This morning it all came apart again.

For the past two weeks we have been working so hard on our relationship, going to counseling, posting in here, sharing, everything.. I was feeling good about it and every time I asked W how she was doing she told me she was doing "wonderful" and was so happy to be with her family again.

This morning she told me she was "sick of working for me," that she hates me for mistakes I've made in the past, that she had a way better life when she was in her apartment when she was single, that she can't do anything right, that I'm always nitpicking, that she was a fool for coming back.. oh and that these forums aren't doing her any good whatsoever..

?

All this came after I sent her an email this morning in which I communicated that I find it a bit frustrating that she sleeps in when I have to work and that I'd prefer it if we had less nightlights around the house (we have one in every room, hall and bathroom - I suggested one in each hall and the kids' bedrooms only.)

She now wants to hire movers to move her stuff back into her apartment, she thinks her hurt is too depp to recover from and she HATES me for what I've done to her.

I'm at a loss.

I don't know what more I can do short of getting a zipper for my mouth because she can't seem to tolerate anything that comes out of my mouth. She's got me walking on eggs again and afraid to communicate.

I'm really at a loss.

Big setback today.

Will have to start building emotional trust from scratch again.

Sad day.

HighRize,
Are you serious? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">by Loves: Over the next three years we separated 4 times and filed for divorce twice. Our last separation was the longest, 5 months and 3 months into the divorce process.

About 4 months into this last separation my husband decided that he wanted to give “us” another try. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you send her email about too many night lights?? You're not giving her much to look forward to, are you?

Sounds like Plan A for you? Have you two ever tried MC? Can you get her to agree to it, now? Do you want to start a new thread? Good luck - Dru

Two weeks is not long enough for good changes to become a habit. But neither of you have mentioned anything very positive, except Loves does say she loves you, HR. Be honest w/ yourself. Are you sure you're really meeting ENs? If that were the case, then the above posts would look very differently. I don't think it's impossible to work things out, but I don't see from these posts that you are working things out...just criticizing and judging. Obviously these posts are just snippits of your life, but that is what jumps out so far.

And money issues and nightlights are just symptoms of the bigger issue, which is control. If ONE of you wins, you both lose.

Perhaps I have a bias of some sort in reading this, but I'm interpreting both sides as using this for a forum to argue why they are right and the other person is wrong. What I'm not seeing is an attempt to meet each other halfway and POJA a solution. I'm hoping the two of you can use this as an OPPORTUNITY to learn how to work together instead of having your arguments validated so that you have ammunition for your side of the story. I can't remember where I read it, but I agree with the theory that money problems really aren't about money. And for me, this thread really validates that.

Hi all,
I read some of this thread quickly so forgive me if I missed or misinterpreted something. HighRize, I didn't ever hear what your car payment was or any of your extras. Not to undermine, but that is part of the pic also.

Perhaps, just maybe, money is only part of this issue. It could also be about control and/or lack of respect for each other, or lots of things that aren't brought to light here. Dig deeper, Loves and High, you may find that it is all just a cover for other things or just part of it all.
I really don't think Loves is leaving just because of her guilt or the money. As you admit High, there are past things. I often find that my H really misses the point when I am trying to explain things, esp. deep issues.... and I miss points also from him.
Not to hijack, but to make a point: My H and I often disagree about money, I also stay home and work just enuf to pay for a few things. This was a mutual decision, BUT I find the " I want, You want" arguments thoroughly unfair and biased, because he "makes" the money. I have indicated a want and been told, " If that's what you want, better start saving your money." Ha, like that is a fair or respectful response. I have never told him no, or even I don't think so, about purchases that he wants to make. I have had to "fight" for everything that I want, I now know that it is not a good thing to do, not following th POJA, if you have to fight it out. I must say though, my wants are not considered nearly as important as his, because it is "his" money.

This issue with my H and myself is a big issue and part of a larger issue, having to do with respect and equality. He will often say that I have the "harder" job, but then at another time, say that he wishes he had it so easy. And, no, this is my downtime, working on my M here... I also do not sit and eat bon-bons. We have 2 kids, one at school, one homeschooled, 5 horses, 3 dogs and a big messy house, 6+ acres that I take care of... and he thinks it has been unfair to him that he had to do the laundry in the past, which he is no longer responsible for. Be careful of that "division of labor" thing too, sorry High, but many non-stay-at-home spouses have no idea how that extra roll of TP gets into the closet or think that the bathrooms are self-cleaning. LOL, My H is guilty of this and also has no idea when any animals shots are due or where their food comes from, much less idea where his food comes from.
Also, we stay-at-home spouses spend A LOT of time with our kids, I know I do, and maintaining family and friend relationships, therefore showing our kids how important these things are. It IS the harder job, not a "daily grind" though, and I appreciate that I can be home, but the buck does NOT stop here. And kids may need you more, just want you less, as they get older. I find this true with my 13 yr old D. Then of course there is my 6 yr. old S, who called me lazy 'cause I wouldn't go to the store and get him pudding right then.

Anyway, sorry if I rambled, I just wanted to respond, as I can see part of Loves issues, and maybe issues underneath this one. And High, my H also feels "responsible" for maintaining the cash flow, but we all need to get a little perspective on this.

Good luck and read a lot here, it helps.
jl

Wanted to add that I also am new to this and I like the disclaimer that I have seen about free advice.
All of above is just my own opinion and may be biased as you can see.

I also have to say, High, PLEASE do not call your wife lazy, I caught my H on tape saying these things about me and all the things that he has to do, boy do I think he had the wrong idea. I may be a lot of things but - Lazy, I am not; Selfish, I am not. Creating a family atmosphere takes a whole lot more than money and running a household is a VERY tuff job.

jl

You said my wife wants the good life- suggesting that she contributes nothing and just lives off of you. It is that aspect of your statement that I was referring to. No, I am not a man hater at all, I am a hater of someone who seems to be very one sided in their view of who contributes and who doesn't.

What I'm really getting from your post now is what you object to is her insistance on doing it HER way. That I can understand. A marriage is a partnership and nobody in the relationship can do everything THEIR way without the other having problems with not being part of the decision making.

I do think you have a problem with understanding what her contribution is, however, and I think she has a problem with understanding what things cost and also with sharing the cleaning and other responsibilities.

Why not begin with deciding on a budget - what you can collectively afford to spend on extras and make some decisions that are reasonable.
This has to be done together, not just by you. She also needs to have money that she can use at her discretion without always having to consult you, but it has to be within the budget.

Then decide on who is going to do what regarding cleaning and this has to be done together, NOT JUST BY YOU.

You said I don't want to lose control of the relatoinship. Well, having control is not what being in a relationship is all about. If you look at this from a control perspective you are asking for resistance from your wife. She is a partner, not an employee, not a child, so everything needs to be decided on equally and no one should have "control" over the relationship.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You said my wife wants the good life- suggesting that she contributes nothing and just lives off of you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, you took some liberties with your interpretation.. nevertheless.. by "good life" I was saying "a lifestyle and material things that require a lot of money to sustain.."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What I'm really getting from your post now is what you object to is her insistance on doing it HER way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but it's not as if she's given me an ultimatum, we're trying to find a middle ground, that's all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do think you have a problem with understanding what her contribution is </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wait a second, I KNOW how hard her job is, I did it for 6 months while she was.. away. Yes, by myself. It's a never-ending process and there is ALWAYS something to do. I know this. That is why I have signed on to do 50% of all house chores, including cooking dinner, which I enjoy.

The problem is: she would PREFER to do EVERYTHING. She would prefer if I didn't help because she is a perfectionist and admittedly has some issues with letting go of control over the house, chores, etc. So it's not that I don't recognize and appreciate what she does. I want to participate but she traditionally has not really allowed me to. I feel that if I could do 50% of the work with kids/house, she could work 20 to 30 hours a week.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why not begin with deciding on a budget - what you can collectively afford to spend on extras and make some decisions that are reasonable. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. Good idea.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This has to be done together, not just by you. She also needs to have money that she can use at her discretion without always having to consult you, but it has to be within the budget. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once again, I agree. Traditionally she has not shown a lot of interest in helping me manage the finances, budgeting, etc. Therefore, she's not "in the know" when it comes to what we can and can't spend at any given time. We have tried TONS of ways to allot her disposable income to support her needs (groceries, clothes, fun, etc) and she INSISTS on not having any money...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You said I don't want to lose control of the relatoinship. Well, having control is not what being in a relationship is all about. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wait a second, I said "I don't want to lose control of this relationship as WE have in the past.." I wasn't talking about ME losing control. Trust me, I have **ZERO** desire to control my wife or our relationship. In fact I would prefer to be the one being LED, not LEADING all the time. She knows this as well. I've carried the leadership burden in the past because my wife has not wanted to deal with the bill headaches, the finances, etc. She traditionally has just wanted to remain"simple" and without "all that stress." Therefore, I end up carrying the burden and I grow resentful.

I WANT an equal partnership. I WANT equality. My wife knows this. It will be up to her to decide if she wants to begin (at some point) being a 50/50 partner.

<small>[ January 29, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: HighRize ]</small>

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<small>[ February 14, 2004, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: WhirrledPeas ]</small>