You have only been married three years, people date longer than this. You have only stopped being with the other man for about 45 days.

Both you had affairs? And now you are complaining he is not around much?

What are you thinking? It is a short marriage you could divorce...but with your bad thinking, you will carry on the same personality/entitlement, selfishness problems you have now into another relationship.

You could keep going from man to man searching for the man who makes you feel the best about yourself...

OR,

You could do something productive to help this world and quit thinking only about yourself. It might change your view of everything if you do this.

All you can really do is control what you do Hitch. In your latest posts I am hearing both, "look what I've done!" and "look what hes doing!", and thats normal for a post mind you. but...

Both posts end with a sorta mindreading future telling statements. A lot of it caused, as you have admitted, from your inability or lack of telling H what was bothering you pre-A.

If your going to keep saying to us "maybe I should just move on because he is Blah Blah Blah...Waah..WAAH!"...how are we gonna help you? Most people comunicate here with words.. do you think we take it lightly that you keep sayng that?

"This is so frustrating, He is returning to IB and what do I do now?, What the he11? he is going sking without me?!!." are acceptable complaints and why we are here, but the "maybe look for someone who will" crap is really better suited for some online dating fantasy board.


Sorry if this is kinda harsh but I was a little disappointed to see that.

I hope your day gets better.

Sorry guys shouldn't have done that, I said what I felt maybe to get a reality check from you all. I just want to be settled with my H it is frustrating cause I have learnt so much and want to put it into practise. Frustration at him is more at myself for messing up what could have been so good.

Bubbles I don't feel anything you said is helpful, I am not sure what you can say us selfish? I spend most of my time doing things for other people. If you haven't anything helpful to say then don't say anything at all.

Bubbles may be harsh, but there is a message under that. It's just the way she works.

If there is a message to say then they should say it, not some double meaning sentence that blows someone whole being appart.

Sorry, I reacted to your complaints about your husband not taking you on the trip.

1. Why did he not take you?
2. Why did you not ask to go?
3. Did you ask to go on this trip?
4. Did you want to go on this trip with them?
5. Do you miss not going on this trip?
6. Could you have asked to go and he would have said YES.?

Now lets not overstate how good it was or how you have ruined it all. Yeah you made it much worse I agree, but even if you didn't blow it with the affair there were things to work on. If you had addressed those things then it would still have been diffucult.

The A has made you realize how far you sank, so you are finnally getting help. I don't know if you would have come here unless you saw your own weakness.

You have the power to change yourself and how you treat H. You have the right to protect yourself and your marriage. Only you can enforce your boundaries and are responsible for the consequences of not doing so.

There is allways hope

OK, I can't stand it. This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

This is saddest with a screen name I made up to help with a legal issue and I don't remember my login stuff and it's too much trouble to figure it out.

Hitch, you are going to have to have an actual CONVERSATION with your H about this. Talking to the forum is enormously helpful, but it's not going to get you anywhere until you have an actual CONVERSATION.

Here is what I FINALLY said to my H:

"H, I had an A. I know you are hurting and scared. Can you tell me how to help you?"

He said "the way to help me is to create an intimate M".

NOT what I was expecting.

All of my "I have to table my issues while he heals" stuff was scaring him to death because he needed to know what was going on with me.

I stopped posting because, among other reasons, I felt I was putting all of my decisions up for a vote, and the only vote that matters is his.

But I still read.

Stop dithering and have a CONVERSATION. Your pre-A marriage wasn't some perfect vessel that you broke. And who wants to live on a pedestal anyway? Sounds tortuous to me.

Ask him. Tell him. Start.

Saddest brings up a good point. (Hiya, saddest!) It's really easy to spin your wheels here in lieu of facing the far harder task of opening up with your BS about the A, the M, R, etc. Be sure you're not focusing too much energy on this, telling yourself perhaps that this IS the work you need to do, when in reality you're doing the easy job before the more important one.

Just seconding the point.

I agree with them too hitch. Just jump in

I know. Thanks guys your right. Need to start communicating with my H. I am not sure what I am afraid of, feel the fear and do it anyway.

Turn that fear around into anger at missing out on a great marraige and a deeper relationship.

Get angry at what happens if you don't communicate and let it fester and build up into resentment.

Maybe that will balance out the fear of crossing the lines of the boundarys that protect you and H because you will fight to protect. Fight or flight?

Fight.

This is a challange for me to figure out how much of your motivation is possibly still clouded by the affair. I beleive you are repentant and sorry but maybe there is some fantasy-in-love emotion still in there? Maybe looking for that with H?

I DO think his IB is a problem and it would wise for him to straighten it out. I know its difficult, but realize nobody can make your marriage but you two.Give yourselves time and work on it as you both see that.

God Bless

I just find it difficult to communicate with my H. I hardly ever think about OM, I liked the fact that I could communicate about all sorts with OM bit I know this was just dating. It was awful being with OM when I realised I had gone for the forbidden fruit. I broke down to OM about 3 weeks after I left saying what have I done, I love my H this is a terrible mistake.

I remember very early one a few weeks aftet I met my H that I told him that he was the nicest kisser ever (I am generally quite open affectionate person) and he got all flustered and laughed at said calm down! I felt quite embarrassed a d I suppose anything too gushy he doesn't like.

I hVe just let years of unsaid things build up and now it feels like a mountain of communication needs to be done. I don't want to give the wrong impression here I hVe been doing some communication with him but don't want to scare him off either.

Hitch2207,
You have to consider that your husband has a certain comfort level and that can change but slowly with time and experience.....I say go ahead and be yourself this is probably one of the things you have a problem with yourself, not being able to express yourself freely and how you choose to be you.......I've done a bit of that myself.......always holding back a little not to be to affectionate and mussy, my husband wasn't the same way.......to emotional for him.......
When my marriage broken down I figured what did I have to lose, I was going to be me and express myself how I wanted, when I wanted......if he couldn't handle the real me then it would never work anyway......I was tired of not communicating like I wanted to all the years we were married.......
I would say keep it very safe and try to give him the opportunity to open up as well, he might be feeling the same way as you........
You made a mistake, you understand this, now just love that man of yours and stop remembering and focusing on the past and work on a new you and a new marriage.......

Hi JT

Thanks for continuing to read my thread. Your post got me quite upset, in a good way but it certainly touched a nerve. I think I am afraid of opening upto my H and showing him the real me, I am frightened that he won't like what he sees and will walk away. Your right though we would just be living a lie and it is important for me to do this. I think this may have more reason why I a
scared to open up, strange as I am the one who cheated. I was cheated on by my first bf, the relationship lasted 7 years. I was complety in love with him and he hurt so bad, yes I know what everyones thinking if you know what it feels like then why did I do it? I guess this impacted me a lot and always stopped me falling too 'deeply in love' always the one wanting to be in control.

Thanks again,

Hitch

Hope this is helpful.. it really has to do with what I learned and I have a pet peeve about the misunderstanding of "forbiden fruit", because I labored under a misconception for a long time.

The fruit, (sometimes refered as a pomegranite because of its many seeds..an apple), was forbidden becuase it was from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What does knowledge give us as power? To judge. What do the seeds represent? Much knowledge and many different ways it grows in our hearts. Yes hearts because our minds and judgements are part of them and what we must gaurd.

Just makin sure you were not confusing the fruit with sex, a common shortsighted misconception spread by those not willing to dig deeper as to why mankind is so troubled. We think we know what we need, and many times are cursed by that. It has farther working and effectual ramnifications that boffing someone.

But as to marriage, and relationship within that, sex is the most personal thing you share with someone else. There is nothing God allows as an excuse for divorce except for infidelity becuse he knows how personal and painful it is for us. God doesn't say we must divorce, but he allows it and won't break fellowship with us if we do. It takes a grace filled and forgiving person to deal with it instead of divorcing, some people don't have that, or ever will seek to have it, and with Him thats just the way it is because ...If we have a relationship with someone that is supposed to be a model on this earth that represents Gods love for us, and His care for us, when you betray the marriage partner with the very thing he gave us,(sex), to again create life. Well he knows that that jugdement we make MUST bring about pain and suffering or we will never have a chance to understand what is really important.

Of all the wrong judgements we make based on our knowledge of right and wrong, Sex outside of His covenant he made with us carrys the consequences that hurt the marriage relationship.

Can we get past it? Look at Gomer, the women who sold herself into sexual slavery in the bible, whose husband after she had become old and unattractive and lost her teeth, bought her back from the slavers at an auction and restored her as his wife.

There are no depths that you can go where God can't reach you, but the drama and selfcentered acts that people use to "fix" what they think is wrong with them or gets thier "needs" fufilled fall short from what God has planned for us, if we will listen to him.

Hitch,

CP said something that I am going to disagree with...on a technicality if you will. CP said Now I fully agree with this with regard to what is allowed for divorce in Biblical terms, but I disagree with this on another level.


And I think it is a level you need to consider. I will tell you that any d*** fool can have sex with another person even someone they are married to. BUT, it takes true sharing of ones souls, ones truths, ones feelings and desires to make a great marriage and frankly this is far more intimate than sex as you well know.

Based on your own words NEITHER your H nor you have ever truly been intimate in your marriage. Neither of you have had the guts to express your feelings for one another. Your H's independent behavior clearly shows a man that in my world I would consider a gutless B******. He won't divorce you and he won't be married to you instead he cheats on you and ignores you for golf, skiing, and other activities.

You cheated and frankly you know that your behavior was beneath contempt. However, you are trying to rebuild but you are still cheating your H because you won't speak your heart. You won't tell him what you feel, what you need, and what you think of him. Hence you are cheating him just as he is cheating you.

Now you can tiptoe around this all you won't but until you get HONEST...RADICALLY HONEST with yourself and your H, MB will not be able to really help you. We have all tried to get you to set boundaries, get your feet on the ground and prepare you to battle for you marriage, but you won't engage. My only conclusion is that you really don't love your H nor your marriage enough to fight for it. Taking responsibility for your affair is NOT fighting for the marriage. Neither is having an revenge affair, taking golf weekends etc.

You have some serious decisions to make and to make them you need to be radically honest with your H as to your expectations of him and your expectations of yourself. IF he doesn't agree, end this farse of a marriage.

This isn't about me running out of patience with you, it is about you not being willing to fight for your marriage and hiding behind the "I don't want to hurt him", "I afraid of what he will say or do." "I don't want to drive him away." " I don't want to lose him." excuses.

Play to win or get of the game Hitch.

Please think carefully about what I have said. You have decisions to make and you need data that only your H can provide.

JL

JL, I didn't expound on what you brought up which is very true. Sex can be just a chore and abused in a marriage if all the other things that spell true intimacy are lacking.

I should have said that sex was the most personal physical thing we shared with someone else, and many do not think or feel outside that physical/emotional realm. Maybe that was the better way to put it. I was really tring to get Hitch to see that sex was not thier problem, but intimacy and the need to work on it. The physical side is the gravy and beautiful but only when the spiritual is present first. Which is what you said.

I am gonna restate and clarify my statement so to be clear what I meant, I hope you see I thourghly agree with you and sex for sure, in my opinion and it allways has, lines up exactly with what you said. To me, it is the end result of a honest, truthful and totally intimate relationship with one you trust with your very life and soul. That takes time and investment and in no way did I mean that all there was to a relationship was sex, although I think it sounded that way.

I wanted to say when someone lacks the capacity or desire to bond at all the levels a marriage should sex pretty much is just an act. Sometimes used to "fix" the relationship or put the problems on the shelf or avoid them altogether. Like you said, any damn fool can do this and we know that many do.

But what happens when the relationship deterorates, and we go out and cheat on the spouse in an attempt to escape what you have pointed out very well the "trap we made for ourselves" by not communicating or being honest... well it has very seriuos emotional consequences that the simple don't process well. As you know blame shifting and the mind telling them "the magic is gone" and whatnot ensues.

Forgiveness and coolheaded rational thinking takes maturity and humility I know you agree, and thinking outside our emotions is something most people only do when they have to. Being a man of dicipline yourself which is evident by your posts you have probably experienced this and had to use it to teach others. My point was that some people don't get it or escape it if they can to thier own loss rather than mature.

The referance to biblical standards was that God understands the pain associated with sexual betrayal and/or that many times the union of two people is not honored as it should be. Like you said again JL sex alone does not a marraige make. So for those that think it does, fools mind you, he allows a way out. Hopefully they are strong enough to forgive and mature, but God knows it takes both of them. One or the other might not have the right idea, or be unable or unwilling to to seek restoration to how he designed it to be, even if they started with misconceptions, they can learn.

When the end result, sexual intimacy after thorughly knowing someone and personnally intimate BEFORE they have they have sex, is bypassed from the beginning, many cannot seperate the differance from even God abandoning them. This is nonsense I know, but to those who think sex is something to be used for only there own pleasure and don't think about thier spouse well where is God in that?

What I quoted I beleive came from the mosaic law and Christ did away with that when he fufilled it. Within the law, which some people still live in, there is not much forgiveness, but there was understanding and wisdom. I think within that law marriages were allowed to be disolved because people tryed to live within it. Now we have the higher calling of Grace and forgiveness along with the understanding and wisdom of the old testement. So I would say we have no excuse but to rise above.

The sight is full of those people with misconceptions and I started my life with many but I hope I have grown to rise above and be objective enough to forgive and understand. I was trying to express that Hitch and her hubby have to do that. I don't think they can do it without faith outside themselves and thier emotions and may be they need some spirituality and trust in what I believe, God intended for marriage.

I think what you have said, as usual for your posts, is right on. They need to get on the ball. I believe also if they start realizing the emotional reactions thay have given into are setting them up for a fall they have a chance. I am not sure how long they should give each other before they lay down the boudaries and law that they need to continue or recover. One thing for sure is if they are seriuos they need to start working on it.


Hitch, what is your husbands intentions? Has he read the books? Has he realized, or have you told him that his IB is hurting your relationship? As JL stated you need to get going on this. He is acting like a spoiled child.. still, but you have not called him on it either. He needs to want the marriage that you want too. The only way you can do that is communicate untill you are on the same page. It also takes two.

Its a battle, no good marriage exists that the two don't fight for it. What do you want? What do you think of MB priciples? Do you want that kind of marriage? Why not if so?

Your a big girl now, you can take a kick in the pants to get you going. Get movin girl..