Are you snooping?
Did you get phone records you mentioned?
Did OW called after 5/12/2010?

Hi Recon

She called him about 2 weeks ago while I was on vacation in NY. I immediately text both she and her H telling her to stop contacting my WH or we would be forced to take out a restraining order against her.
I just got a SIm card reader today so I will check his phone when I am sure that he is asleep.
No I have not gotten the phone records as yet and I guess I wont either.
I just think that he is not up to the task of doing what needs to be done and I cannot or will not attempt to do it all on my own. It takes two to make a marriage.

Well just checked his phone, nothing there.

He must have left his laptop in the vehicle cause I can't find it and he is still up, I thought he was asleep.

Did he explain more the wanting out - separation, divorce? What is the reason for him?

believe it or not we were having a conversation about a MB post that I had showed him the night before, that he told me he read but as it turns out he never read it at all, so I calmly asked him whats going on, are you mocking me or something? and he replied that no he was not mocking me but that he decided that the best thing for him to do is to leave. My immediate response was ok, when. he said give him 3 weeks because he has nowhere to go.

Do not give him 3 weeks, give him by the end of the day, write out your plan B letter, pack his things, leave them on the door step.

If he wants to leave, lets give him that chance shall we?

Sapphire

Thank you for saying that.

The minute the words were out of his mouth, I said really when? he hesitated and said I need 3 weeks, I told him you do not have 3 weeks, I want you gone now, so he says I have nowhere to go, I told him you shouldda thought about that before you made the statement, I then went to his closet and took down all his clothes and they are in a heap on the floor, I told him if they are not packed and out of the house by the time I get home from work this evening I will help him get them to his car. When I told him to leave now he says that the best he would be able to do is to go sleep in his car, my response/ Have at it my brother.
Is this man crazy? after all the things he has done does he think that I will tolerate this.
I believe that he has been playing some sick kind of game all along and I am not taking it any more.
One thing for sure HE DOES NOT HAVE THREE WEEKS!!!!

He's leaving? WHAT?

Makes me wonder what else is going on...

If he does go, use the time to get a grip on your emotions. Stay cool, and stay here.

Hugs and prayers for you.

Hi

I really need advice.

Given the events of the past few days, am I crazy to think that WH is playing games with me?

He called DD last night, she then spoke to me to find out if I was calm, I said yes. She said that WH told her that he did not say what I am saying he said. Why would I make this up?

I am so freakin sick and tired of crying, getting angry, feeling tortured, I am plain TIRED!!!

So, heres what I am thinking, he threw that statement out as a bluff, did not expect me to jump on it.
The question now is what do I do now? I mean, if he comes home and says thats not what I meant or whatever the hell excuse he is now going to give, what am I to do? How do I structure the way forward? cause I have to tell you that my instinct right now is to say, know what? whether you said it or not, just get going. Look at the prank he pulled giving me the impression he had read SB's post when in reality he did not? He did not realize he would get caught.

I think it is time for plan B which removes you from the games and gaslighting (btw, the example where your WH tries to confuse you via your DD, is exact example of gaslighting) and gives to your WH conditions for recovery.

Structured way forward.

I feel that I need to give an update based on my last post and the subsequent events.

The day after my last post I sat down and wrote out things that I wanted to say to WH and say them calmly.

I came home and gave him pen and paper and told him I was going to speak, I wanted no interruptions and if he has any questions to write them down and ask them when I am done.

Here are the highlights of what I told him.
The games WILL stop now, I am done with that. Pretending to read an e mail when you really did not is something I view as playing games.

In the past, he has done wrong things and I have made excuses for not demanding that he owns up to his actions by making excuses for him. It ends now. He will own up to what he has done and take responsibility for whatever damage control is needed.

I have taken on a mother role in this relationship and that too is DONE.

That although since D Day he has been saying how sorry he is and is asking for a chance to rebuild the M, his behavior says otherwise. The message I am receiving is that I am sorry but....
So long as there is a but at the end, its not good enough for me.

You make attempts at trying to make up, but some of your efforts go for a couple of days and then you stop. Not acceptable.

That threat the other night about I have made the decision that its best that I leave, which ended up backfiring on you? don't try it again, the next time your belongings won't just be on the floor, they will be put outside. Maybe you are under the impression that, because it has taken me such a long time to decide whether to stay in the marriage, this means I cannot live without you? WRONG. I am taking my time because whatever decision I make, it will be one that much thought and effort went into. However, understand this, I do not operate a revolving door, once you are gone you will stay gone.

You have caused a lot of damage to the M nd to me personally, yet you mope around as if you are the wronged one here. GET UP OFF YOUR LAZY A$$ and do what needs to be done to try and make up for what you did, just SAYING you will do it accomplishes nothing.

I expect you to start posting on MB.

So guys, as a reminder, I found out the details of the affair by breaking into his e mail and reading all the mails that were saved over the past 5 years.
So yesterday I brought up one that I had forgotten to ask him about, because this female was wishing him luck with his new love. So when I questioned him, here was his response " I don't know what she was talking about cause you don't tell one woman that you are having an affair with that you have a new love, so you must have misunderstood the e mail" Huh, bloody hell, another one? OMG.

Guys I don't know how much more of this crap I can take, I feel like walking out there right into traffic in front of a large enough vehicle so that I am guaranteed death, there has to be an end to this pain, I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE.

How does one get rid of the visions in their head about the WH having sex with OW, please tell me how to get rid of it as I don't know how. Unfortunately, I was forced to read all the details of their sex life in the e mails, so not only do I have visions, I even have the sounds to relate to.

Please give me some help???

I had a real breakdown this morning screaming, physically beating up on myself......

I am totally lost.

teaser,

Just caught up on your thread.

He's a gaslighter and game player, for sure.

I see you went to Plan FU, which can work. I had one of those events myself. It wasn't quite the same as yours - it didn't come to the "throw the clothes in a pile ready for packing" point.

It did come to the point where I yelled at him in the backyard (thankfully we live far away from any neighbors who can overhear). My H used to like to pull this "you are so controlling" crap out of his pocket whenever he was angry about anything. He knew it pushed my buttons. At this point in recovery, he was NOT pulling his weight, and he was being a complete jerk. He was acting like I needed to

get over it

and I was at the 6 month mark. Not wanting to get over it, and wanting to see him WORK.

We were moving a large glass table into the garage, and I had an arm injury, so this was a big task for me. With limited arm movement, I was anticipating how we were going to move this table, and saw that we were going to have to lift the table up and over something, while at the same time we were going to have to tip the table at an angle to get it through a doorway.

We had already started toward the garage with the table, and I looked at the doorway. I asked him to wait a second, and then asked him, "When we get to the doorway, which way are we going to tip this, left or right?" - - only so that I could figure out how to grip that table and whether I wanted to be the one going forward or backward on the project. I had to consider my arm, and which one would be doing the most work. I didn't want to drop a glass table.

He looked right at me and as mean as he could said, "Oh, as usual, here you go. You have to control EVERYTHING, even which way we tip this stupid table."

I was LIVID. I put the table down, and stared straight at him, and we went from zero to Plan FU in a heartbeat.


He was like a deer caught in the spotlight. I told him exactly why that remark was WRONG, how his biting me about this simple question was wrong, and how our relationship probably would have been - and should have been OVER six months ago.....except for the fact that I chose differently.


His end of the work had been EMPTY, because it was his expectation that I would do the work. And that if his changes didn't materialize NOW, I would walk away.

I was there because I wanted to be there, and because he said he wanted me there.

If either one of those conditions changed

the marriage was over.


His remarks went in favor of CHANGING my wanting to be there.


It was a very hard few months after that - for him and for me.

Ultimately, we got there.


I still have my days. I think he probably still has his. I will say that we do keep our eye on the prize 99 percent of the time, and that although our marriage is not perfect, we are better than we have been. There is one thing he no longer ever says.

"controlling"


Because, the truth is, I am not. He now is the daily witness to a couple that does have this issue in their marriage. He often remarks about how stupid he was for ever even mentioning this word to describe me!

BTW, the Harleys do not make any note or recommendation for Plan FU.

Neither do I.

For the record.

SB

I feel that this drips and drab honesty thing is so cruel, why won't he just tell me everything and lets be done with it? now, with this new affair I have just discovered tells me that my marriage has been off for a much longer time than I thought. And to make it worse? he tried back pedaling but I would not let him get away with it.

I mean how do I get past the anger? the piece meal honesty is preventing that.

The concept of meeting his ENs is so foreign to me right now I don't even see a light at the end of the tunnel.
He still is not wholeheartedly meeting my ENs.
My number one need was SF, he tells me there is too much tension between us for him to do that!!! so he continues to be the one calling the shots.

I don't know, what does this say about me?
Does a person really get over all these affairs?

I have to find a way beyond this point cause I am only hurting myself, yet I don't know how to control it.

It is devastating to find out that while I was working on trying to make a better life for us, he was out there making a better life for himself from his perspective.

There is an issue that as far as I can recall no one on MB has commented on and I need some input.
What do you think of the fact that he lied to me telling me that he was impotent, and then was out there having sex with all and sundry? he says it was always only oral sex because he can't do more, but this is one of the reasons why his As came as such a shock because I did not think that a man who was impotent would do that. I thought that he would be too embarrassed. In my limited experience, I was under the impression that men who had that problem would go to prostitutes, not conduct 5 year affairs.
When I asked him how did he accomplish sex with OW, his response? We worked around it, my response was damn, I was never even given that opportunity. UGH!!

My life is such a freakin mess and I can't see a way out.

He is a liar.

You cannot believe what a wayward says while he is still wayward.

If his lips are moving he is lying.

I agree that the information that there is a potential "new love" is something that is questionable. I wonder if he was breaking it off and told her that he wanted to search for a new love, and she wished him well on that? It is one possibility, IF the liar is not lying about this. I doubt it, but a remote possibility.


In your situation, I wonder if you have a man on your hands who is believing that your Plan A is his permission to do what he wants. Plan B looks like the only way for you to go. I hate to say that, but it looks to me that your husband is feeling quite entitled, and I wonder if there is still another OW on the hook.

the thing, with respect to the new love issue? I was not even aware that this was a person he was having an affair with, I thought that it was just a friend that he was confiding in telling her that he had a new love. You see I have have been accusing him of being in love with OW, so that was the point of the conversation, until he responded the way he did.

How do i, or he justify the impotence thing? like how do I wrap my mind around that?

He is irritated right now because I am demanding that he start posting here, he says that I am trying to "counsel" him. I told him if I was counseling him I would be the one telling him what to do, what I am suggesting is that he comes here so other people with more experience and less emotional involvement can give him feedback on his behavior.

teaser, you and your H both are making very strategic mistakes right now. The lovebusting on both sides is so bad that I am very concerned. You need professional help. You are both too messed up to pull yourselves out of this on your own. PLEASE sign up for the online program so you will have a coach and Dr Harley walk you through this. Don;t try to do this on your own.

Hi Melody
I fully agree with you and will see what he says. I have been telling him this, he has spoken to Jennifer once as I have. The problem I see is his ability to commit to a program. I really don't want to start something that he will not be able to stick with, and I mean that in no insulting way, it has just been his pattern to start things and then stop. For example, I feel that he started out trying to follow the plan set out, we had a couple of good days and then he just started slacking off, when I slipped back he could not understand, he thought things were going so great. He does not fully understand (even though he says he does) that this is going to be a long process.

By the way, he is now posting.

That is EXACTLY why you need to sign up for the online program. That way you have a coach at your disposal *AND* Dr Harley. Dr Harley will help get him on board if he starts slacking off. That is what you need. He is the biggest stick and that is what you need.

To his credit, he is very good at motivating reluctant spouses to get on board. And he is very good at calming down erractic, emotional BETRAYED spouses when they are acting as their own worst enemy.

The online program is much more proactive and comprehensive in that you have WEEKLY contact wtih your coach. She gives your lessons and if you don't complete them, you are contacted. You have daily access to Dr Harley so if you are having trouble, you go post to him and he will straighten out your husband. [or you if need be!]