T/J cont'd: Vibrissa, I only wish I was as logical and articulate as your posts. You are an MB scholar, and I flatter myself by thinking we could have the same advice!

But wait, what does that say if I am already here responding to your threadjack? Hmm... No, no, I most assuredly do have a life. Really. Really!

I am truly sorry for the insult, I didn't mean to offend everyone.

Allie,

I'm off work and on my way home so I won't be back until tomorrow. Lets figure out a way to swap emails and get you moving on a plan with the support and guidance of everyone here. It is always the right time to do the right thing so lets get going!

aBetterMe

I believe if you notify the moderators they can facilitate an email exchange

Allie: As Pepperband tried to tell you, if you want to feel better than STOP making this all about you.

Make it all about your BH instead. When you are focused on trying to make HIM feel better instead of trying to make YOU feel better - guess what?

Then you'll feel better.

i wanted to tell you.. you are on a step in the right direction. You do have a long narrowed road ahead of you.

Is your husband interested in or have you mentioned MB to him?

You have said you both love one and another..... then SHOW that by making it about him with doing the O&H policy and putting into place EP's. Do them and SHOW your husband that you are willing to do what it takes....

Ok AllieD,

If words mean a lot to you, then consider this. Guilt is a paralyzing emotion that is supposed to STOP you from doing something. The word, and emotion you seek is called "remorse" this feels alot like guilt, but it is in fact a call to action to make amends for what you have done, by changing how you see things, and how you have treated yourself.

You must understand that you violated YOUR morals and boundaries and you need to learn what your boundaries are and protect them. You said Ever considered that the perhaps more correct answer to your H is that you ARE HAPPY because he gave you another chance and you are delighted to be taking advantage of it to try and make both of your lives better.

AllieD, what you need to understand is that what will help the most is that both of you change your perspectives on marriage, yourselves and each other. You say he was no Saint, not unusual. But what you will learn if you remain on this site is that this site is really big on PLANS.

You and your H MUST have a plan for recovery, a plan to address the things that have hurt both of you, and this plan must be detailed. Not like my diet plan where I "plan" to lose 20 lbs, but have not addressed food, timescales, and how I am going to accomplish it. Your and your H's plan must have check points, evaluation points, time lines for evaluations, ways address and improve the situation.

I will also point out to you, that given what you have done, is there really anything you would find embarrassing to talk about now? Given what your H knows, what would he find embarrassing to talk about now. He has been brought to his knees but he loves you. He is now as vulnerable as he has ever been, so why should he hide what he needs, what he likes, and what he will do to make this marriage work?

You two have an OPPORTUNITY to make this marriage like it has never been and you cannot do your part paralyzed by guilt.

Please think about this.

God bless,

JL

Okay, I already went through your thread so I know you've already gotten some for this comment. And they're well-deserved. I was struck by your self-centeredness when I read your first post.

Couple of things: you're getting a lot of advice from veterans who are also FBS (former betrayed spouses). Consider that a kindness. They are in league with your H, the man you've emotionally destroyed. Listen well to what we have to say because we've been where he is. Lose your sense of victim-ness, strip off your self-defenses, and listen.

The thing that stood out to me in your first post was the alarming way you've internalized your H's devastation and made it about you (guilt). You've got to lose that self-entitled way of dealing with your A.

May I suggest you stop filling your sentences with selfish references about "I" and "ME" and start looking more at referencing "my DH" (dear/devoted husband). Limit the "I" and "me" to things like "I admire my DH because fill in the blank."

Or try gaming yourself: "What special thing can I do for DH today?" Then DO it.

How about: "What would DH like to have me make him for dinner?" Then MAKE it.

Put yourself in the place of caring for your BH.

And listen without flinching to the advice here.

Allie, when I first showed up here 8 months after I ended my affair, my first post was titled "How do you deal with the guilt?" I wish you could read it, but it was lost (along with all of the posts between May-October 2009) due to a server-crash here.

You've already ordered it. "Surviving An Affair is the book that my marriage counselor put us onto... my wife & I will both tell ya, it's a book that may well have saved our marriage. Read it, with your husband if at all possible, but read it no matter what. The first part is about how & why affairs happen; the second part is about how you & your husband can build a marriage that's better than before. (And that has to be your goal, because merely getting back the marriage you had before your affair won't be good enough. I could tell you more about it, but the book speaks best for itself.)

All well & good to hear you say that, but it's important for your actions to back it up. Read up on this site about "extraordinary precautions." You need to be living a transparent life with respect to your husband. He needs to have your passwords, access to your accounts. You probably should change your phone numbers & e-mail addresses if you have not already done so. (No it's not convenient, but that's why these precautions are "extraordinary" -- they're designed to go the extra mile to give the wounded/betrayed spouse some sense of security, by making it more difficult/unlikely for the affair to resume.)

Knock off the suicide references, ok? Unless you really want to stick it to your kids, you're not serious about that, and saying you're considering it is a pretty dishonorable way to draw attention to how bad you feel. I'm not trying to be harsh. Rather, I'm trying to point out (from the standpoint of someone who's walked a bit in your shoes) that self-pity is an enemy of your marriage, because it leads to paralyzing inaction, and you cannot afford to indulge it.

One new way to look at it is, the guilt you feel isn't altogether bad! As a wise lady posted to me on that first thread of mine, guilt can be your friend: It means you have a conscience, that you recognize the horror & selfishness of what you've done. That by itself makes it less likely that you'll be a repeat offender. How about that! So far, so good, eh?

The bigger picture is about your marriage, which means you need to look past how you feel and focus your energy on how your husband feels. You need to leverage your guilt (which is self-focused) into remorse (which is other-focused), so that you continuously undertake ACTIONS to protect your husband's feelings, to identify & learn to meet his emotional needs, and yes, to learn to communicate better so that you can not only gauge how well you're taking care of his needs but also so that you can communicate YOUR emotional needs to him & help him meet them, so that he doesn't have to guess.

I will tell you what others have already advised, namely, that time for Undivided Attention is HUGE for a recovering marriage. It was probably THE single biggest change my wife & I made after my affair, that has allowed us to reconnect better with one another. You just cannot skimp on it or substitute for it. You HAVE to find ways to make it happen.

Keep posting.

Thank you, Glove, that was an awesome post!

Allie, I just wanted to say that as a FWW myself, I know what the guilt is like. The folks here are awesome - their advice is dead-on. I read, and read, and read on this forum.

Pepper and GloveOil and the others are absolutely correct - guilt is unproductive. It's hard not to slide back into it, because it is, well, it's a comfortable place to be. "Comfortable" is not really the right word, maybe...but putting yourself out there and focusing on your DH and meeting his needs, especially when it's hard, is uncomfortable. Sometimes painful. Beating yourself up is easy compared to that sometimes.

We haven't made it through all the pain yet, so all I can do is just tell you that yeah, it's hard. I feel like cr@p about myself sometimes too. But the folks on here have been a gift to me as far as letting me know what I can do and helping me to see things from a BS's perspective. Read some of the BH posts and learn, learn, learn. Read some of the success stories and let them inspire you.

Hang in there...

I had some good material to work with.

Allie...this is my H who posted to you ~ he is being truthful when he says your M can be better than ever.

We've worked the MB plan all the way through ~ we are 100% certain this is what has saved our M. Having a PLAN and ACTING ON IT is what has helped my H move past the guilt.

We went to the MB Weekend but from what I understand they are transitioning to the DVD program ~ I cannot recommend it highly enough:

DVD Program

ITA. UA time is uber important ~ think of it as the glue that will keep your M together.

Hey guys....just wanted to say thanks for all the great thoughts you've given me to process today.

It's been excruciating to see myself through the eyes of others; it's a shameful sight, but one I needed to see. My heart is breaking with a fresh awareness of what my husband has been/is going/will continue to go through. I called him this evening and apologized to him for being so incredibly selfish. I want to learn to focus on him instead of me.

I feel overwhelmed right now. Quite frankly, I haven't even read the last several posts. I realized that I have managed to gain the dislike of almost every poster on here. I do value your constructive criticism, and I have learned so much already.

I did want to clarify one thing....I was skim reading a bit and saw that one poster basically said, cut the crap about the suicide threat unless you're going to do it....I just wanted to say, my intention was not a suicide threat. I hate suicide drama as much as the next person, and this is the first time I have admitted to thinking those thoughts. I thought this would be a safe place to be transparent....hopefully someone reading this and contemplating transparency here will learn from my mistake.

Anyhow, just wanted to say THANK YOU to those of you who took the time to give encouragement. Thank you to those who cared enough to criticize in a loving way. I won't be back around to read any more comments but, thanks again.

This is par for the course. Keep in mind what you've been told here already - actions, focus on your BH.


Great! This is a great first step!


Also par for the course. What kind of pick-me-ups can you think of to pull you out of this? Be prepared with a plan for fighting off these feelings of being overwhelmed, of paralyzing guilt, of depression. It is good you feel these, but don't let them rule you. Easier said than done, I know. Start thinking of actions now to thwart these feelings that are counterproductive to your recovery.


I wholeheartedly disagree.


This sounds a bit passive/aggressive. Of course no one is discouraging anyone from sharing very real and extreme depressive and/or suicidal thoughts. You will see that immediate responses to your original post containing such thoughts directed you to seek professional help.


So... why are you running off? Is it because you felt some "criticized you in a non-loving way"? If the criticism makes you uncomfortable, why?

Running away doesn't fix things, AllieD. Stick around. Recovery is the hard part, but it's also the part that counts the most.

That's what we've ALL done. We wouldn't bother with you if we were repulsed by you. You know what? If I rejected you because you are a WS, it would be like rejecting my FWH. But I saw remorse in him, and realized the value of what we have together. I see the same thing in you and your H. So why in the world would you think I, or anyone else who took the time to respond, would hate you? We're trying to help you.

I, for one, would just like to say I don't dislike you. I dislike what you have done, but you don't have to be defined by that one horrible action.

You can be better than that.

I desire that you have an AMAZING marriage, because it is what is best for EVERYBODY. However, getting that marriage is hard work. I think it would be more harmful if I politely smiled and patted you on the back when I see that there is much you need to work on.

It isn't impossible and I think you are FULLY capable of achieving what you want. But - you're going to have to quit using your guilt as a shield to prevent you from doing the HARD work this requires.

I get that you feel bad - I get that it hurts. But don't let that pain become your crutch.