Folks,

I don't have a dog in this fight other than being a male and a father. But, I am seeing alot of things said that just don't seem to reflect reality.

The reality is if a man has other children and suspects his W of having an OC, he is left with really two choices especially as little as 10=20 years ago. He accepts his fate as a cuckold and rears the OC, or he loses ALL of his children to a wed. and every other weekend visitation while he support the children and in the "old" days the exW as well.

The other issue is "choice" if a man doesn't know or know for sure he has no choice if he has other children but to hang in there or leave. As far as the OC, finding out is always hard and while there are many OC's posting on this thread there have been those posting here that were devastated to find out they were an OC at the age of 35.

Lies do grow and do more damage.

I have no idea what the "right" thing for either of these men to do is, but I do know that honesty is always the best way to go. Gamma's W may well tell him the truth if he tells her he is thinking about getting DNA testing of their son. The originator of this thread may well need to know the truth so that resentment for his W and daughter doesn't set in. That could end the marriage which apparently has survived, but it would hurt the 16 year old daughter for a divorce as well.

You see he did have another child to consider. Now it is all well and good to tell someone to "suck it up" when they don't have a choice, but it is far different to say that when they do have a choice or should have had a choice.

The dynamics of this situation is so complex and so nonlinear, that I doubt any of us can predict the consequences of finding out, but I do strongly suspect the two men who are the subject of this dicsussion have a good idea of how they are going to change if they don't find out and those changes are not going to be good for them or their families.

I never want to see a child hurt, but all of us are children at some level, and in this case we are talking about 13 and >20. If their mother's would also step up to help address this, it would be very useful to all concerned, but I notice that they are playing no role in this. They should be.

I personally would start off by finding out what blood type each of the children are. That alone may tell the "fathers" something, and then discuss with the mothers the situation and how they are feeling.

That is my advice, get the mothers involved in this decision. I am sure it will tell both of the "fathers" alot about the situation.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I was going to do the blood type before dna, so far I have not been able to find the blood type in our records.

Right now I am looking at body details that are not found on my wife or myself, for example attached ear lobes vs free, teeth shape, etc.

It's not exactly science and I have to look at my wifes male relatives to factor our traits which might be gender linked or recessive traits that are more dominant than mine.

As far as OM exact features, I only have a general recollection of him, no photos yet. So while I was shocked a short time back to see a resemblance between my son and OM, I can't exactly say what those details are.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,

Don't guess at this it will drive you crazy. Appearances and family traits are not all that clear cut. Especially if you consider that some claim between 10% and 20% of children born are not fathered by the man that thinks or has been led to believe he is the father. That makes matching details of relatives to a child very very complex and almost useless.

Think carefully about this. I would definitely talk with your W and your son's mother about this. He is YOUR son because you are the one that has reared him and has modeled behavior and morals for him. He carries your imprint whether or not the DNA matches.

God Bless,

JL

Gamma, i am sorry that i don't know your whole story but please don't drive yourself crazy by guessing about the physical traits. the 8 kids i have been entrusted with come from 2 moms and 2 dads.

if you stand them next to each other and look close you could see as many differences as similarities and draw the conclusion that i was not the bio father to at least 3 of them not counting our oc. when in fact i am the bio to 7.

the other thing i am concerned of is what you have to gain by having dna done now.

are you intending to persue back cs?

would it be a deal breaker in your marriage?

would you / could you cut your new found oc off emotionally if that were the case?

i have to agree with the JL that discussion with your w is the 1st step. depending on the outcome step 2 would be discussion with the child along with both you and your w

i understand the raw hurt that would be involved with such a discovery even after 20 years.

it does not however change that this child is anyone else but your child

our oc knows both me and her bio father and i can assure you that i am her father and daddy.

maybe not thru blood but more importantly thru love.

Pops,

Thanks for your response, you wrote in BOLD.

the other thing i am concerned of is what you have to gain by having dna done now.

If the OM is the biological, then it should be known, a person who sees a crime and does nothing commits another crime.

are you intending to persue back cs?

Yes or a lump sum, or at the very least 33% of the cs given that DNA is 33% of who we are, or.......

would it be a deal breaker in your marriage?

Likely since it means that the deception has gone on for 20+ years. There is an effect which grows with time rather than diminishes, shame too since my wife is very happy post MB as I have ended all LBs and attend to her needs.

would you / could you cut your new found oc off emotionally if that were the case?

Would change the dynamic that is for certain, particularly since I would need to make the fact widely known. I suspect there would be a gradual alienation.

it does not however change that this child is anyone else but your child

There is a dilution if there is no relation, knowledge cannot be unlearned.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma, I guess I'm having a difficult time understanding how the results of a DNA test could cause a "gradual alienation" from your son and "dilute" your relationship with him. This is still the same son that you raised and nurtured and loved all those years. Absolutely nothing could take away from that fact. This young man has considered you his father for a very long time. I seriously doubt his feelings for you would change if it turned out that OM was his biological father. He doesn't know the OM at all. YOU are the only father he has ever known.

My H has recently reestablished a relationship with his biological father after 35 years of no contact. Yes, this man is his bio father, and they do have an amicable relationship. But he doesn't consider this man to be his dad. His dad will always be the stepfather who raised him. That's who was there for him day in and day out while he was growing up. He calls his stepfather "dad" and his biological father by his first name. The relationship with his stepfather has not been remotely "diluted" by the contact with his biological father.

Gamma,

I believe your assessment is right. The relationship with your son is very likely to be badly damaged if it turns out his is not of your DNA. The reason, you are ashamed of him that much is clear. You will end his family by divorcing his mother and he will be left to choose: a mother that loves him or a man that tells everyone he is a "[censored]" and divorces his mother because of the shame of the situation.

How else could he possibly interpret your intended response? After all he is an intelligent young man and your actions would speak volumes about your shame for his presence in your life?

You don't really have to guess how he will feel and react as you spread the news that he is a "[censored]" child that brings you shame and extreme anger and vengence.

Please think about this very carefully.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

My own status as an OC produced by a single man and a married woman has taught me the value of the truth. I now tell everyone who asks and name names.

This is not the same thing as an adoption or sperm donation in both of those cases the man signs on before hand.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,

Just remember, your son is an innocent victim in all of this as well. He didn't have a choice in the matter either. He didn't ask for any of this. Please consider how your actions may affect him.

I'm an OC too, and I have a very different view of this than you do. There's no guarantee that your son is going to react to the situation in the same way that you did.

Gamma I am having a hard time wrapping my head around your rational.

"""""If the OM is the biological, then it should be known, a person who sees a crime and does nothing commits another crime."""""

ok fine I can agree with that, BUT to who and why are yours to determine.

known to you, your son and wife i completely understand, I even get letting om know if he doesn't already. But all others it is none of their business. Only those YOU feel should know would be the ones that YOU tell

""""""""Yes or a lump sum......"""""""

I am no lawyer but I see this as a waste of time and money going thru the court system now. But that's just my opinion

"""likely since it means the deception.........."""""

I get this also. I remember one day about 5 years prior to my w's A. we were driving and talking about old flames and what happened to them. she confesed to having had a physical relattionship with one of her old bf's that I knew nothing about. the raw pain after nearly 15 years of marriage was tremendous


""""""particularly since I owuld have to make the fact widely known......"""""

this is where I get confused. why would you have to broadcast this discovery?

""""""knowledge cannot be unlearned"""""

you are correct in that. but we can also move forward with that knowledge. it doesn't always have to have a permenant back lash

I know my situation is different because there was not a 20 year lie. my lie only lasted a couple months, yours 20 years.

you haven't had time to work thru this.

I have to admit that if my w came to me right now and told me that all 6 of our com were someone else's i can see divorcing her but never breaking the bond I have with those six kids after 22 years of loving them.

i can see that in our oc now. after just 8 years and 9 months i would never abandon that little girl even if me and my w were to split. I would fight tooth and nail to stay in her life

I find it very telling that throughout this thread Gamma has not once said that he loves his son, or expressed any concern for his emotional well-being.

I seriously doubt that a court will even entertain a lawsuit for back CS if a child is grown. There is a statue of limitations in most states. AND, I am no lawyer, but I can't imagine a court allowing a BH to sue for back child support. If anything, the wife would be entitled, not the BH.

Ditto, Kerala. The selfishness of some and lack of concern for anyone outside of one's well-being never ceases to amaze me.

I don't know why I keep reading this thread. It just makes me angry and sad each time.

gamma that is what i am trying to figure out.

you spend 20 years loving, nurturing, protecting, molding, shaping, crying for and with him, teaching him to have compassion and forgiveness and you are willing to throw it all away because your wife lied to you.

seems like your punishing the wrong person

Gamma acts like he's the only one to find out he's an OC. I'm absolutely stunned at his lack of empathy for the young man he's about to throw under a bus who has trusted him like a father. Gamma - I hope God can forgive you for what you are about to do. You have not been wronged as much as you are about to wrong. Once you load the chamber and pull the trigger, you can't retract the bullet that will forever devastate your son.

K&A,

So, if the worst is true, what it the best course of action?

Keep him in the dark about his heritage? Wait for his biological family members to die off. Deny that they exist,

I can't force a relationship on anyone, all I can provide is information. No one should have to visit the grave of a parent, as I did for my Mother, never having seen them or having a clear memory of them.

God Bless
Gamma

Just one other thing that is bugging me here, re: suing for back CS. Obviously jurisdictions differ, but generally CS is seen as something that is owed to the CHILD, not the parent. I think the potential suit described by Gamma would more properly fall under a doctrine like unjust enrichment - a much harder sell legally speaking.

No. Don't deny his parentage. But be careful about your attitude toward him. What you have posted is very UNLOVING toward him. He didn't cause this. But you are about to unload all of your responsibilities to another man who didn't give a **** to be in his life. You did. He trusts you. This is what it means to be a man. To set your own need for vengeance aside for the good of this young man who trusts you.

Gamma,

I am a huge believer in the truth, you on the other hand are not so much. You see you won't admit the truth and that is your plan will help harm your son very much.

I am also very big on knowledge, which means I KNOW YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. You are confusing information with understand which must proceed KNOWLDEGE. The fact that you might eventually find out your son is not of your DNA is simply information.

You don't seem to possess any knowledge of how powerful and damaging this information could be to your son. I am not saying you shouldn't find out. In fact your speculation seems to have already poisoned you toward the young man that you help rear, so finding out might be a good thing. I am saying that your approach after the fact shows no KNOWLEDGE of the damage you could do to this young man, and subsequently to yourself. It is not the information that would be damaging, it
is you lack of concern for the results.

The fact that you tell everyone who asks the truth is YOUR Truth to tell and you are free to name names, although I don't see how that helps much of anything, that is your call.

What you are planning to do to this young man shows no compassion, no understanding, and no knowledge. If you told him and HE decides to tell everyone that is far different than you doing it.

I sense great anger not just because this young man MAY NOT be your biological son, but from the fact that you were an OC reared by a married mom who was not married to your bio-Dad.

You need to step back a long way here. First you have no information to confirm your theory, and second you clearly have no knowledge of the power of said information if it exists to harm someone who does not deserve harm.

Please think carefully about this.

JL

Gamma~

How old were you when you found you were an OC? Am I reading correctly, you were adopted and never knew your bio-mom, (the ww), nor bio-dad, (om)?

Also, am I following correctly that you think your young adult son may be an OC, but your wife has never told you? Forgive me my laziness, I know I could probably find this info on my own somewhere around here.

Your story fascinates me, and worries me.

AD,

How old were you when you found you were an OC?

I was adopted out of my first family when I was between 1 and 2 to an adoptive family. I always knew I was adopted, but only in my 30's did I learn I was an OC.

I tracked my bio-father down and met him, but my bio-mother and first legal father had died before I could see them. I did get to meet my bio-siblings and misc. relatives.

The story I was told was that my parents had died in a car accident, it felt a bit like the Truman show in that, I found out that many people in my life knew my story except for me.

Also, am I following correctly that you think your young adult son may be an OC.

Yes, but not verified, perhaps not probable I hope.

Reading between your lines, I think you are afraid that your OC will someday seek out his biological family and abandon you?

This is a risk and there is no way to reduce it as it depends on his sense of curiosity and circumspection, he may notice unshared traits etc. Then too the need for identity can be overpowering. The movie Blade Runner resonates with me.

God Bless
Gamma