The entire thing is way too long and wordy.

OK, hmm maybe trying to communicate too many things. Thanks Pepper

I agree, Hitch it is too long. I stopped reading partway through. Also this:


is a disrespectful judgement. This attitude has no place in your marriage. This is saying you know better than him. As men are not mind readers, YOU are not a mind reader.

Honestly, I'd cut out everything from

to
You want to explain that you love him, explain how you have changed and explain what you want for the future and WHY you must have NC with him until your requirements are met.

Everything else is extraneous.

Hitch, WAY too wordy, and you are, IMO, trying to address things, like MIL, best left for later, much later.

More importantly, I see you anticipating his reaction and rebutting what you think that will be. In other words, you are trying to stay one step ahead of him and control his feelings by explaining a bunch of stuff that you don't have to explain -- like snooping. As you and I both know, much to our chagrin, snooping is fear and love in action, completely appropriate, and indeed should be invited. He's not about to see that now because he is in the fog and all the explaining in the world isn't going to change that.

Remember:

He controls him.

You control you.

I would like to see you write unambiguously such that even a 16 year old hormonal boy could not mistake your intent about your feelings and your decision:

1. Here is what I did.
2. Here is what I have done and want to continue to do to rectify it.
3. Here is your conduct that I cannot tolerate
4. Here is what I decided and why.
5. Here is what I hope for.

Here is a letter from another thread that I think is brilliant:


Remember, this is about you and setting a boundary which is designed to protect you and your feelings for him. It is not "Plan Control."

This was one I used from my H, he is always saying this to me. Never knew it was a DJ.

It is a dangerous way to think, even for him. Because when you DON'T know something about him, the implication is that you SHOULD know. Thus, you wind up hurting him and the hurt is more painful, because it negates his expectation that you know him better than he knows himself. If that makes any sense.

When you hurt him the hurt is more painful because the reasoning goes She knows me better than I know myself. She has hurt me, she SHOULD have known that this would hurt me. Since she knows me better than I know myself, she MUST have known this would hurt and she chose to hurt me on purpose. And then an innocent mistake becomes a malicious abuse.

It also leads to "She knows me better than I know myself, thus she knows what I need. I don't need to tell her. Wait... she's not doing what I need, since she knows me so well, she must be choosing to NOT do what I need. She must not really care about me"

He is giving you credit for more knowledge than you actually posses, and you are accepting it. This makes you responsible and accountable for more than you actually are, setting you up for failure when you make a mistake.

I used to think this way about my husband, but then I realized we were setting ourselves up for failure. I realized that I have the same attitude with my daughter and that is an unequal relationship. The same attitude in marriage also creates an unequal relationship.

Somehow you are better and know more than him. Instead of HIM being the expert authority on his life, now you are.

You really don't know him better than himself.

You may know him really well, better than anyone else. But you are still imperfect, there is much you don't know about him.

Thanks Vibrissa

That makes total sense, I have never used that line on him before and I think in a way I was trying to use his language. When he use to say that to me, it made me feel crappy because he was wiping away all confidence in myself. Him knowing me better, meant that should he make all my decisions in life, I am totally incapable of making my own.

I will delete that one.

H just came home from golf, I was sat in kitchen eating dinner, he was being very friendly asking me about what I had been upto and wanted a blow by blow account, usually he never asks. I am very much in withdrawal, I am sorry a LB but I couldn't ask him about his golf weekend. As far as I am concerned we are 2 strangers in a house together.

Its a little long but that is kinda like my posts...lol. I tend to talk a lot attempting to communicate hoping I hit on the "magic words" somehow.

Actions speak louder and it seems in order to change them, more words are nessesary, cuz something must not be working and our minds are not in agreement. Ya know?

Its a nice love letter Hitch, my fears that many of the deep hurts you are expressing will fall upon deaf ears at first and other posters might agree that he will just be puffed up with the power you give him in his punishment of you.

I am the wrong person to edit your letter because I use too many words to express things sometimes. Its because in my mind I don't wanna miss anything or be misunderstood. That works on some levels but nothing speaks louder than actions and sometimes a lot of talk is just for me to let things out.

In this case as with your letter, it is nessesary to express your heart but demand actions from him, and I think your pain is wasted on him. Common childish wayward behavior BTW, its all about them. Thier opinion is all that matters and they have convinced themselves of that.

I will let others attempt at edit but leave it as it is untill they look at it to be sure you get to say everything you want to.

Ok, some fortune telling and I am bringing out my crystal ball. Its bad form for me to pick on your H but maybe some guesswork on why he is doing this will be able to possibly hit on why he is acting this way. Maybe if anything it will help you to understand and get objectivity so YOU are not left alone with despair. Its only guesswork and even if it has some truth in it, it is NOT a statement that your H, no matter what his problems are, won't or cannot change. Heck why would God allow us free will and why would we need to be taught? Why would we be here attempting to help others restore relationship?


The cyrstal ball says, ..sorry.. What I have heard has given me the impression that H is very insecure and finds his identity through what/who he has and controls. I have said before that his mommy and/or home life has made him that way. Also I think at some level he knows it and struggles with it. Hes desparate to find meaning and personal value. Thing is...thats soon gonna be his problem as he doesn't have you to blame anymore, just like his Mom.

The world systems prey on his type of insecurity and we see it in lots of places but not more than in youth. Full of emotions and impetuousness they fill themselves with fantasys and reckless behaviour. When people get thier heart broken or go thru traumatic emotional experiences from thier world being turned upside down,(mind you, maybe thier world NEEDS to be turned upside down for growth at some level), they also can turn to such behavior.

Porn, the local meatmarket bar, advertisments to look better, have more money, divorce lawyers...somehow become loveable or insulate ourselves from those who don't love us..is big business.

What we miss is to love ourselves first, the rest is gravy.


Anyway you said a couple times you are both attractive people. From the sound of it you are a women seeking relationships that in your mind and heart have value, that left you open to OM and you fell.

Here is something I posted on scottys thread,(you should read it BTW if you haven't yet), that might help explain it better.


Point being your husband needs his world turned upside down before he justifies having an affair with a married woman himself. It seems he will blame it all on you now when he has created his own problem. You know this and acted poorly by having an A only to realize you fell even deeper into the pity party he is living in. Every time he is challanged to look at himself and change he runs to behavior that distracts him from his revelation of his fraility. Whats next? Is he gonna wax his wiener in some married woman and spread his vast knowledge of "get what you can from everyone cuz he who dies with the most toys, and uses everyone wins"?

How childish and lacking what a man should be. I understand he is confused and how loose sex with different women can "seem" like emotional freedom but hey buddy you helped create this problem, time to man up and admit your part in it.

That is what plan B is for, to separate from this bullcrap for your own sanity and let him own his own crap, as you are yours.

But you saw it and are pulling yourself out.. proud of you for that.

As you move into plan B you will see a lot of what a marriage can be. The hope is that H will soon follow

I would expect he might want to "punish you" more after you kick him out so be prepared for possible divorce proceedings. Get any printed or text evidence of his affairs handy and IF,, you think he had a couple of "tiger woods" moments prior to your A get some proof.

Lol, sorry, I am just remembering his statement, "I did nothing wrong" Yeah buddy, you did nothing, and you did that wrong too.

You got it exactly Saddest, I am trying to preempt his reaction and also cover off any issues that might get in the way of him returning to me. Ok Plan B Draft 2 in action..

Thanks for taking the time to read my letter, your eyes must have been bleeding...9 years wrapped in one letter!!

Hence, the problem with the statement. In the future, when he says something like this just politely inform him that you don't believe that is true.

No, I really don't know you better than you know yourself. Only you know yourself that well.
No, dear, you really don't know me better than I know myself. Only I know myself that well.

Good luck on the second draft!

Who made his dinner? Did he talk about what HE did? Maybe he was just checking up on his wife to see if she behaved well enough so he would keep her around?

Does that sound like your father talking?

How do you do it Constant? You have just summed up my darling H in one swoop. Thats just totally moved me and my heart is breaking.

I want to save him, I know I am the one that did the almighty messup, but oh god, he is never ever going to be able to hold a mirror up and make changes, I am not stupid. He is 36 years old and its just not going to happen. Maybe this will do it, maybe it won't. Same thing happened to his brother, he married had a child, his mother got involved, the rest of his family got involved and it all started to fall to pieces. In court there were talks of rape, beatings all sorts. I remember how my H told me stories of how they dealt with his ex wife, and it kind of scarred me from the beginning, thinking thats not right. They had a child together, so what did my H brother do? Stuck his head in the sand and has not seen that child since. What did his mother say when his wife called her to tell her his son was beating her? That she was over exaggerating.

If I could take him a million miles from here and lead him to learn some of the things I have I would. However you cannot take a horse to water.

I know I am in 2x4 territory but the things that attracted me to OM was his maturity, his independance, his protective ways, his concerns for me when I had a near breakdown when my H would not talk to me, the way he talked about his family (they sounded like good people), the way he said what he felt no games. I wasn't impressed with him for his don juan pulling skills or looks (he is not near as handsome as my H) just what he was and what he stood for. Ok he had an affair with a married women so I can't really say too much. Although the affar lasted 10 days and we both agreed to leave out partners. He said to me don't leave for me leave because you don't want your marriage. I know everyone is going to say I am foggy and I know the OM was not right for me, but I am just telling what needs were not being met.

I want him to find value in himself, I want him to be happy within. My H readily admits that he can't spend time alone, he has to be with others. He use to love spending time with my family who were so full of joy, and fun and love and warmth, he has never known that. What can I do to get him to see?

Your right there will be more punishment to come, he knows my weakness so it won't be in the form of divorce proceedings, it will be OW, and if he really wants to tear me appart a pregnancy.

You can't get him to see that, you cannot control anything about him. You just can't.


[quote[Your right there will be more punishment to come, he knows my weakness so it won't be in the form of divorce proceedings, it will be OW, and if he really wants to tear me appart a pregnancy. [/quote]

Hitch YOU are in control of your life. He can only punish you IF YOU LET HIM. OW, Pregnancy, those weapons only exist if you ALLOW them to exist.

He can't have an OW if he isn't married to you. He can't use pregnancy or a child against you if you aren't sleeping with him.

Losing it Constant - but are you being sarcastic? I hope so. I have not hear a peep from him since Friday when I sent that text, I really dont care how well his weekend went. I really not interested in his insincere questions on mine. If he had cared then he would have responded to my text.

Sorry guys I am really in withdrawal right now.

Hitch YOU are in control of your life. He can only punish you IF YOU LET HIM. OW, Pregnancy, those weapons only exist if you ALLOW them to exist.

He can't have an OW if he isn't married to you. He can't use pregnancy or a child against you if you aren't sleeping with him.[/quote]

Hi Vibrissa, my H knows that I want a child, he told me when he was sleeping with OW that he was not using protection, and he said he couldnt care if they got pregnant. He also told me a lie that he got one of the OW pregnant, and she had an abortion, he told me this shortly after he found out about the affair when he was in real hurt destructive mode.

You always do hit the magic words Constant, i love reading your posts, like you favourite magazine arriving in the lost...lol.. !!

post i mean,,whoops

He controls him.

You control you.

Once you let go of thinking you can control him, you will feel an enormous relief.

Hitch, this really gets to the heart of all the boundary work you did with JL. Tie your Plan B decision back to your core values. Write it down so you can refer to it when it gets hard. Integrity, honesty, kindness, self care, self respect and respect of others -- those are all present in your decision. They will be your anchors.



My H is 51, and he�s changing.

One of the things I have realized is that I allowed my H to turn in a C- performance as an H and put a gold star on it so he could feel good about himself. I see that now as an insult to him because I knew he was capable of an A effort.

This particular epiphany came about as the result of a very convoluted analysis of the purpose of EP�s that I won�t go into. In the end though, my duty to protect him extends to protecting him from himself.

Maybe it will help you to look at it that way � by making this decision, you are calling on your H to make a grade A effort, and doing what is in your power to protect him from his worst excesses.


If you are executing a perfect Plan B, you won�t be hurt because you will not know.


The ONLY way to build self esteem IMO is to live in congruence with your values, and only he can do that for himself.

Yes I am starting to feel some of this relief already, feel pleased that I dont have to try so hard anymore with so little back. The punishment will start but I don't care what he does anymore.

jeez, dear. I would have hoped that you are way past that. I don't know if you really realise it, but you actually compare your OM to your H. (no matter what, but he IS your H). You make the OM sound like a noble man, putting him on the pedestal like that is very troubling I think. Do you want your H to be like OM? You should sit down and think it over, what is the reason of your withdrawal really? Your H's behaviour or the fact that you still have feelings for OM or both?