HT, I suspect your true feelings are coming out now that you are not so distracted with getting her affair out in the open. Her behavior was bound to erode your love for her. She hasn't met your needs effectively in a very long time. There has no lovebank building in a very long time.

Are you scrupulously setting up time for undivided attention and meeting those top 4 needs? That is the key to rebuilding your love for each other.

p.s. my H's affair was such a lovebuster that it took me 1+ years to get my feelings back for him. I did not do plan A either. You wore yourself out for a long time trying to resolve this. That had to have had an effect.

ML & P&H thank you both very much for your comments and support.
You have given me some positive things to put in my pipe and smoke. Someday I am going to do a survey on here of all the betrayed spouses who have started smoking. Trying to kick now. I had been clean for 11 years till this issue popped up in my life. I know its a love buster to stink of smoke so its time I stop that one in its tracks and I definitely re-addicted myself!
Again Thank you for the kindness.

hurtingturkey
ME: me BS age 55 male
WW: age 48 female
Ours: age ten
Hers: 21 and 17
Mine: 21, 27 and 30
Original DD: April 26, 2010
2nd DD: Feb 1, 2010
Exposed 2/19/10

I worry about you, friend. [[[[[[[[[[[[[Hurtingturkey]]]]]]]]]]

What do you think about coaching with Steve again and getting his opinion?

You are most welcome, HT!! All the best {{{{{{hurting turkey}}}}}}

ML

I would like to get back with Steve. I have guessed that my FWW would not want to go there again. I won't know until I ask I guess. My FWW has had some very bad things happen in college with a professor - student conflict (she the student). Its too long a story to write about and off topic anyway. Suffice to say my FWW really believes that People are Good if you just appeal to them (in my older posts that is one of the characteristics I have consistently seen in my fww... a poor understanding of other people's self interest and behavior). This time she complained to her Dean about a professor only to have the Professor learn of the "in confidence" complaint fromt he Dean. And she wonders why the professor has stepped on her every time she gotten a chance.
ANYWAY... this issue will be appealed to a student faculty court next week and then its time to ask her to try Steve again.
Meanwhile I have really made progress in avoiding poorly received behaviors (yell, threaten, schream etc.). I am doing my best. I am also separately from marital issues seeing at Pschologist who is working with me on my poor self image issues. Lots of digging on that and it goes way back but that is a discussion for elsewhere.
Again thank you for the suggestions and advice.

hurtingturkey
ME: me BS age 55 male
WW: age 48 female
Ours: age ten
Hers: 21 and 17
Mine: 21, 27 and 30
Original DD: April 26, 2010
2nd DD: Feb 1, 2010
Exposed 2/19/10

I guess the last few days have been difficult for me. So I am returning to posting about me.
Its clear my FWW is showing lots of effort.
And yet as my previous posts in April note, I am drifting further away. I have become confident that I can act like a good husband. I am doing so. I no longer am afraid that I will have an angry outburst. I can now confidently respond to anngry emotion without an angry behavior. That feels so good and is a result of a lot of work and help.
But my need for details remains and my FWW just will not talk about it so I avoid it.
The result is that I am drifting futhre apart emotionally. I find that sad and even tragic. When we do things together I am mostly emotionless inside even if I smile on the outside. I have explained this to my FWW gently and certainly not often. I have not couched it in terms of "give me details" type demands. I am trying to open up "What have we both learned from this" type of discussion finally. I cannot force her to talk about it however. Meanwhile I am still hurting very much at times and hurting overall.
This is tough stuff.
I think about my 22 year old who had to kick in doors in Iraq and enter buildings with his M4 rifle and wish I had his courage and character.
Maybe I am just a whiner but this stuff really hurts and its hard to take it out of my mind.
Just wanted to write for a moment.
Blessings to all here.

hurtingturkey
ME: me BS age 55 male
WW: age 48 female
Ours: age ten
Hers: 21 and 17
Mine: 21, 27 and 30
Original DD: April 26, 2010
2nd DD: Feb 1, 2010
Exposed 2/19/10

Quit avoiding conflict. Tell her what you need. If she refuses to give you what you need, then divorce her. No man should resort to being a doormat for an emotionally abusive woman. Chances are when you start the divorce process, that's when she'll open up and give you what you want.

HT, that is not a very honest approach. You can't very well expect her to be honest when you are not practicing the same. I would never GET it in a million years if you said that to me. A more honest approach would be to tell her honestly that you want a marriage where you are both in love in a happy, romantic marriage.

Tell her that dishonesty about her affair hurts you and prevents the recovery that would effect a happy marriage. Print this out and hand it over to her:


HT, you have been through quite alot, my friend. Don't stop now. See this through to the end. Lead your marriage out of the darkness. I know you can do this.

Melody Lane:
I think the saying is "you are good people" .
I have come to trust your advice more than you might realize and you did not give up on me early on.
I wonder how many lives you have touched.
I wonder if you realize how you change and make things better in
this world. Okay, the Irishman in me will stop gushing and just say thank you.
And hopefully not frustrate you by listening but not heeding your advice...
I printed the page and the excerpt.
I will read and re-read the page above and prepare to gently but
firmly address the issues above. I know this is the next step.
Although I have read that page in Dr. Harley's book, I never
identified with it as much as I did just now.

Hurting Turkey
ME: BS age 55 male
FWW: age 49 female
Ours: age ten
Hers: 22 and 17
Mine: 22, 27 and 30
Original DD: April 26, 2010
2nd DD: Feb 1, 2010
Exposed 2/19/10

hurtingturkey, thank you for your kind words. I know you can see this through to the end....

I am having a VERY bad day with my thoughts beginning to move towards giving up on my / our marriage. No progress. For my own sanity I wonder if I should give up. Does anyone give up? I am very sad today.
Hurtingturkey

Whats happening to upset you, HT?

Melody Lane, Even just your question showing concern made me feel better. I just could not write on this board. Sometimes it is so painful because I know that my WW needs to tell me the WHO.
I have even decoded (with an experts help) a portion of the tape recording I made that now makes more clear that she stayed in a major city with the man. It took the assistance of a linguist to catch the words and accurately express them.
I want to love and now I am afraid. On my WW's side, I suspect she is afraid of my reaction (my history of yelling or verbal abuxe). I am doing well in keeping myself in check but inside my head (even with counseling help), I am in pain most days. Yesterday was one of the worst days as was the 8/15 post. I made up my mind NOT to try and "guilt" or "logic" or "lovingly" coax out of my WW the WHO. I am somewhat certain its over but.... Anyway, I just made myself be calm and kind and loving when I came home. It turned into a gentle evening with even some hugging and kissing (I suppose that might make people laugh but I love to kiss). I was better off for the moment to let it be. But in truth its killing me inside and I am serious. Today I am happy just because of the closeness last night. But I know or fear that I know I am being deceived....
I still daydream of leaving in the hopes that if I leave maybe then I will find out if she really loves me and then my question will have to be answered before I could return home.
Its hard.
Maybe I have it better than some here. Maybe I don't. I may just be a meal ticket.
I feel I cannot upset my WW while she is finishing her nursing school studies. That means waiting now till December. Some days are really, really hard and without God's help I do not think I could bear to go on. Other days are okay. But happy days... I don't have them anymore.
Tomorrow is my birthday. I don't want any recognition. I am unafraid to be 56 years old. I am afraid that I will die with the question on my lips... WHO???
Just thanks for all your support. I am trying and at least I have become a better man and husband through all this to date.
I don't like who I was when I yelled and screamed to get my way.

hurting turkey
ME: BS

hurtingturkey, thanks for the update. I was worried about you after the last post. I am so sorry this is still hanging over your head.

HOW can this be resolved in a way that does not involve anger or rage, but still satisfies your NEED to know how? I don't think waiting to resolve this is going to help, do you? It is too upsetting to you.

I know you mentioned before that you counseled with Steve Harley. Do you think he could persuade your wife to come clean?

Happy Birthday, friend!!

Melody L
I guess its the HOW that constantly occupies my mind. With the help of cell phone records I am fairly certain I have his telephone #. Slowly, painfully, once every two weeks or so I place a call from a pay phone and ask for someone by name. That has (I hope) eliminated two candidates of about nine male students that she has attended nursing school with. If I get a match (its either D___, G___, M___, T____, S____ or T___) with this method, I am fairly sure I can then tell my FWW I know she went to St. Louis with _________ (insert the name). From my tape recording I know the exact week it happened (FWW referenced something in the tape that lets me know what week she went to St. Louis with him.
I think the specific knowledge of where she went, when and the name will likely create the dynamics for it to come out.
Today, as I awakened early to go to work (where I am now) and my FWW heard me and got out of bed to make coffee and share some quiet conversation before she starts her studying again. I have a bunch of soccer games to referee this afternoon at a tournament and I am looking forward to that. The last game will include our eleven year old's team so I am looking forward to that. Some days are just so hard.
I am so much luckier I know than many. My income has always been way above average but I really live modestly. Material things just don't mean that much (maybe because I have the ability to get them). My point in this ramble is that to me, marriage has never been about economics. I married for love. Period. I married to love and to be loved. I would rather live in a cardboard box than live in a marriage where my wife stays in the marriage for economic reasons or for the kids.
Trust me, when your earnings are the only reason your spouse stays, no amount of money in the world is worth it. You Can't Buy Love! That is my greatest fear - that my FWW is only here for my income.... That makes me feel so worthless.
The group of men I belong to who are reforming (or attempting to reform) habits of verbal abuse advises me that it can take one to two years before a verbally abused spouse will find it "safe" and I know from reading here that it will take me at least a year to recover once the rest of the story is out of the bag if it ever comes out....
I am struggling but you would be proud of the change in my responses to difficulties in home life. I finally am confident that I can keep my volume and disposition in check - even when my FWW does something that hurts. I know too that she has emotionally abused me for many years and there is nothing that cuts like cheating does.
At times I have wanted revenge. Even have thought about a revenge A. I am just not the type and besides I was never attractive. Sometimes I have often described attractive women as having "pretty woman's disease." They will get hit on. I have never had to really worry about that one though sometimes females attempt to flirt with men in management positions and I have occassionally noticed that. Its never been something I found flattering... it always made me very uncomfortable.
I still love many things about my FWW. She is a very good Mom most of the time and she really does try hard with her school work and I love her gardeing and landscaping around our home and her decorating (sometimes its too feminine for me but I deal with it). But the intimacy is lacking between us. One day not to long ago my FWW said "Its so easy for you to talk about yourself." And I guess it is for me. I sort of expect it to be that easy for her and it is obviously not. There was a time though early in our relationship when she uncovered parts of her soul. Then one day we argued and I tossed something she had divulged to me back at her in a very hurtful way. And I think she vowed at that time to never tell me about herself again. It has stuck. Why she doesn't realize that I cannot feel safe until she opens up to me about WHO is a puzzle to me. I worry that he might still be in the wings. Why is she protecting him over me? You know the drill of questions that BS's ask themselves everyday. Again, she may be protecting herself. Waiting for the next blow up (one day I charted to the best of my recollection my history of yelling... almost every three months like clockwork...). What a terrible habit to have had.
Anyway... I am okay for today.
I journal everyday (almost) in my group of reforming verbal abusers. I know I was far from the worst - perhaps even one of the milder ones. But I am determined to fix me as much as I can and to never return to that mode of attempting to win by verbal force. One picture I keep in my mind is a cartoon that shows a male yelling at a cowering female with a fist coming out of his mouth. Words can hurt. Often now I rage at myself in my mind. Why wasn't I smarter about all this. Why didn't I see what I was doing. I really didn't until I awakened one day. My FWW tried to tell me I was hurting her by yelling. It was all so normal to me (it was how we grew up) and my defenses were so strong I just did not see it. Clearly my FWW is happier without me attempting to control with volume and sharp words and witty zingers attempting to win arguments. And I am happier with me.
Now if she could just put her defenses aside and see herself. That is why thinking about Plan B makes some sense to me. If I do leave will it force her to look in the mirror like I did?
I don't regret my exposure.
I don't regret my snooping.
Well, I am trying to hang in there.
Thanks for the Birthday wish.
Blessings

ME: BS age 56 male
FWW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10
Struggling to know the WHO for #2

Checking in once again. I continue to work on me with a local therapist. I can never say I have beaten being verbally abusive, but I can proudly say I no longer fear that I will be. I know my FWW can see the difference. My eleven year old son has even spontaneously told me the can see the difference. Today's report: Well I know who #2 was/is. Reasonably certain he is out of the picture. It took all sorts of scheming to actually verify who it was even though I had his cell phone #. I am 100% sure of who it was / is. Honestly, great relief in knowing that part of the puzzle. Tremendous relief. My self hatred at having allowed yelling to damage my marriage (honestly like old faithful I cooked off about every three months on schedule). I always felt better - and of course my wonderful, gentle FWW felt worse - her generalized anxiety disorder reacting to my tantrums. Maybe I am finally accepting some of the hurt and accepting some of my own human frailties and failures. I am working hard to be a better me. Only in the last two days have I really stopped hating myself. I realized this process is important because I can only change me no matter how much I want to change my FWW.
So... two things have changed.
1. My need to know the who it was / is and has been satisfied as a result of serious scheming on my part and I feel much better. (Of course now I want to know what he looks like...)

2. My self hatred for all of this is significantly diminished.

Ther result... at least for yesterday and today, I feel a bit better. Maybe there is some truth to time heals?
Blessings

ME: BS age 56 male
FWW: age 49
Ours: age 11
Hers: ages 22 & 17
Mine: ages 22, 27 & 30
Original DD: April 26, 2009
2nd DD: February 1, 2010
Exposed: 2/19/10

Your FWW chose not to tell you herself?

I have a question. I haven't read all of your story, I probably will here in a bit. But...

What has your wife done to earn the 'F' in FWW, if YOU had to do the snooping and work to determine who OM#2 is?

Part of getting the 'F' is full transparency, and helping the VICTIM (you) of the adultery in whatever they need for recovery, here the need to know the identity of OM - evidenced by the relief you feel at identifying him.

You seem to be taking a lot of blame for HER behavior.

No - your abuse is not good. It is terrible. But - your 'wonderful, gentle' wife didn't cheat because you abused her. I would say if she left you in the dark about OM#2 then she is in no way wonderful, gentle, or a FORMER WW.

Time may be healing, or you could be playing the sweep it under the rug game, in that case expect all this to rear it's ugly head again in a few years. I don't think you're dealing with this turkey.