I was just doing my daily perusing of the forums and noticed that Takola's "WFLOWER" thread seems to be missing in action.

Is there some reason that certain threads vanish while others are allowed to run amok or are certain MBers playing with a different set of rules?

I am just curious to know what the standard is for an acceptable post or thread. I have brought this issue up with Mods in the past due to their inconsistencies in uniform moderation.

I have seen in the past when MBers have asked to have a certain thread removed and they have been denied by the Mods. Instead the thread might simply be locked or a Mod might offer a reminder of the TOS. Deleted threads are generally those that have gotten severely out of hand.

If there is a different set of rules for the MB "clique" club then something is certainly not right with MB.

ba109

Sometimes I speculate that one of the regular posters here is a moderator, because I noticed some similar incident to what ba109 pointed here. Even though the situation is not that extreme, it is obvious that some posters work very closely with moderators, therefore they (the posters, not the moderators, unless they are one and same) have power to regulate the board the way they want to. It definitely does not feel right.

ba109, now that you pointed this out, I see it is missing. How does that happen? Can anyone explain this because being of a curious nature, I am now wondering if there is a double standard for some? I am not saying that it should or should not have been deleted, just curious.

Oh you two, it's not a conspiricy for heaven's sake! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

The board is run by moderators and they are PEOPLE. They don't comb through the entire board reading each and every post carefully dividing truth from error. Their involvement is solicited by the posters that notify them..... PERIOD. They don't catch everything all the time, and I doubt they spend 24 - 7 on these boards anyway.
-------

For the record Ba .. did you happen to get the chance to read my reply to you re: the WF post before it got the axe?

I basically said that I felt you were right in pointing out my inconsistencies. You can't extol the value in keeping a boundary and tell people you are a "boundary lover" and yet go to chastizing someone for keeping theirs.

I knew when I hit send it wasn't consistent.

I tried to explain myself but it seemed a little like; too little, too late.

Anyway, seeing as though this is your thread I thought it would be ok to take this little detour and bring this up.

A little pet peeve *I* have is when people bring up things to you and you admit your mistake and not a word is said to acknowledge it.

Not saying you did this .. but since the mysterious thread is now missing I couldn't check to see if you had responded to me.

Anyho ... this topic covered about 3 threads so maybe I am not even referring to the right thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I am sure the "thread sorters" here will correct me in my error should I need correction.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

DZZZ

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Diamonzzz ]</small>

DZZZ, This still doesn't answer why certain threads are deleted from the board while others are simply locked from further posting. This is what I was trying to understand. I have seen where a poster would ask to have their thread deleted and the mod would only tell them to stop posting and it will slip to the bottom. I am only seeking clarification.

I requested that it be removed. Arch has done so. End of story. Any user can request that their thread be deleted. From what Arch has told me in response to my requests, it is then up to the moderator what to do with it.

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by www:
<strong> Sometimes I speculate that one of the regular posters here is a moderator,</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL WWW, it is my understanding that all Mods are regular posters here...Who else would be crazy enough to volunteer to spend hours moderating us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Any of us can ask for our own threads to be deleted or closed. Depending on what we want. I some how just don't see the "conspiracy theory" here.

c'ya'll,

Anna

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> LOL WWW, it is my understanding that all Mods are regular posters here... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can anybody confirm this? Is this everybody's understanding?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Farmer:
<strong> DZZZ, This still doesn't answer why certain threads are deleted from the board while others are simply locked from further posting. This is what I was trying to understand. I have seen where a poster would ask to have their thread deleted and the mod would only tell them to stop posting and it will slip to the bottom. I am only seeking clarification. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Farmer,

Hey, now that you mention it...I have seen that too! They are told..."It will eventually go to the bottom and onto the second page". Mercy, I have had a couple that I would LOVE to have had erased...I was being raked over the coals and it wasn't very pretty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Well...at least I FELT like I was.

Oh Well....we must get a copy of the rules! Oh Wait...that's what the TOS is.. I have those already. I guess a little clarification every now and then doesn't hurt...huh?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I basically said that I felt you were right in pointing out my inconsistencies. You can't extol the value in keeping a boundary and tell people you are a "boundary lover" and yet go to chastizing someone for keeping theirs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Diamonzzz,

You know, this is one of the things that I can respect about a person. To see their mistake...accept it...name it...and apologize while correcting it is the right thing to do. Too many people refuse to do that. I think it takes a person of strength and character to do that. I KNOW that I have apologized many a time here when I had said something wrong. I am not afraid to admit that I was mistaken and I will apologize to that person. I really strive to have some character even though it can be and has been questioned at times.

I hope ba109 sees that and responds back to you....that is a pet peeve of mine too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by www:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> LOL WWW, it is my understanding that all Mods are regular posters here... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can anybody confirm this? Is this everybody's understanding? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Generally Speaking...with "you" meaning no one in particular...

I wouldn't think this would happen...for the simple reason that that would be a conflict of interest. How can you moderate an incident...if you are one of the people involved in the incident.


Do you scold yourself??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Do you send the letter to yourself??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

committed

I've never asked that a thread of mine be removed (although the mods have locked a few <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> )....but lots of people do....and lots of them get gone. Anyone can ask. Well, I do think the moderators are regular posters....until they start paying those people...they have to get volunteers where they can find them I guess.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
<strong> [QUOTE]Originally posted by www:
[qb] [QUOTE]


Do you scold yourself??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Do you send the letter to yourself??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

committed </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Committed,

I have never had anything but respect for the mods. I can't confirm what I think, I don't even remember where I heard it. However, I am sure if this is the case, the mods probably have a system that would involve checks and balances, which would involve them not being able to moderate themselves.

I have never ever seen any mod on here take advantage of his position, and if that is the case then I for one see no problem with mods being posters on here.

I am concerned however that I started something that shouldn't have been because I believe the mods have a right to their privacy, posters or non-posters and shouldn't have to admit whether they post here regulary or not.


Anna

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, I do think the moderators are regular posters.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If that is the case (which I believe it is, because starfish says so), won't it be fair that we know who is a moderator/regular poster?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have never had anything but respect for the mods. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anna,

Me too....it is a job that I do NOT envy them.

I just saw it as something comical...in scolding oneself for not playing nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The vision had me giggling.

committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by www:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, I do think the moderators are regular posters.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If that is the case (which I believe it is, because starfish says so), won't it be fair that we know who is a moderator/regular poster? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I have to disagree. Not fair to them. As a poster I would think they have different responsibilities than as a mod. I would imagine this is why you rarely see mods giving advice on here.

They moderate.

If I were mod, I'd have to change my mindset, not be bias, not give advice...but then switching back to poster I could be myself.

Nope. I totally disagree.

Anna

I can only speak for myself...which is easy....I'm NOT nor have ever been asked to moderate.

But actually, yeah....I think it might be interesting to know....but the moderators don't get to decide policy, the admininstrators do....and I guess they have their reasons for wanting the moderators to remain as anonymous as possible....maybe for safety/privacy reasons?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For the record Ba .. did you happen to get the chance to read my reply to you re: the WF post before it got the axe?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">D, that was on aeri's thread. I apologize for not responding sooner.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wouldn't think this would happen...for the simple reason that that would be a conflict of interest. How can you moderate an incident...if you are one of the people involved in the incident. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Committed, I agree. I think that a moderator should be a neutral person. A moderator/regular poster is a definite conflict of interest.

ba109

Ok, so to sum up my understanding, the fact that I emailed a moderator to remove my thread and the fact that I got what I wanted equates to the 'fact' that regular members are either moderators or in an exclusive clique with the moderators.

Wow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Anyone else for a game of logical leap frog? I think, therefore I am green. That's it - I'm a green alien and I abduct people from their beds at night. I was wanting to do that to WFLOWER, but she wouldn't agree. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I can't speak for Arch, seeing as how I am not Arch, but I think I have a good idea as to why he/she decided to delete my thread. No marital issues were being discussed on the thread. It had no content that was of benefit to anyone. It was a flame war unfolding on the board. The deletion of this thread does not come as a shock to me.

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh you two, it's not a conspiricy for heaven's sake!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">D,

I'm not sure if this statement included me or not but I'll respond. I don't think its a conspiracy at all. My only curiosity is whether we are all posting under the same set of rules and/or TOS or is there is a measure of favoritism afforded to certain MBers.

That would simply not be right. That's my only point.

Thanks for all the responses.
ba109

I'll attempt to address a few of the questions raised on this thread.

First of all, I can confirm that I am not, nor have I ever been, Takola <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I've stated many times that moderators are long-term or frequent posters recruited as volunteers by the administration or other moderators. For the other moderators whose identities I am aware of, all have, or have had, a long history of posting and/or thousands of posts. We are known quantities to the admin.

It is the admin's decision that we choose another name than our MB posting name for forum anonymity. As I understand, it is because we do not offer advice as moderators. We attempt to keep the forum running smoothly with terms of service as our guideline and remain neutral.

This way, if someone disagrees with how we live out our alter ego lives, or our opinions, or our posts, the poster addresses our alter ego, it does not interfere with the actions of the moderator.

We do not get involved in the discussions as moderators, unless it is to answer questions, like this, if we choose to.

It is true our alter ego may enter discussions, but, it is very rare for a moderator's alter ego to break TOS ourselves.

Other mods are likely to question or censure a fellow mod who is off task, whether in their mod or alter ego identity.

Moderators are individuals and we look at each email or report individually.

Some posters are constantly being reported to us. After a few dozen reports/complaints about an individual poster, where we indeed see a problem, that poster is more likely to be edited, deleted...posts gone. But first, we often ask that poster to email us, so that we can communicate with them.

In this morning's thread delete, Takola sent me an email, asking me to delete her thread. I've read many posts by Takola, I know she cares about the forum, and I believed she had a good reason. I could have locked it, but since she requested a delete, I honored her request as the person who initiated the thread.

Sometimes a thread initiator wants their post deleted, but the thread is many pages long and contains an incredible amount of caring input by other posters. We may choose to lock that thread because one of the values of these forums is not merely for the posters, but also for the lurkers or others who have a similar question.

And, as some have asked, the moderators cannot delete all your posts. The forum has to be temporarily shut down for that and the admin has asked that we do not carry out a purge, but I always forward those requests to admin and admin can choose if or when to carry it out.

And, just in closing, FYI, I've never scolded myself...myselves? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Arch,

Thank you for your input. Your post pretty much confirms my curiosity regarding the potential for favoritism towards certain members. It would be *nearly* impossible to avoid.

My comments are in no way meant to implicate you...only the system. My POV is that there is a conflict of interest issue here. That's ok. At least now I know what we are working with. I can live with that.

I did feel that the deletion of the thread was rather extreme. There were several contributions to the thread, none of which violated the TOS, that were deleted along with Takolas. She could have simply removed her contributions if she no longer chose to participate. The other posters were not given a choice. Their posts are gone too and none of them violated TOS.

Anyway...enough of that. I just wanted to know if the rules changed. Apparently, they did not...there are just a few that appear to be unwritten.

Thanks again,
ba109

Tak, Thanks for clarifying the fact that it was you, the original poster that requested the thread be deleted. This I did not know and being of a curious nature, was just wondering what happened.

Arch, thanks for explaining in detail what happened. The logic makes sense why some threads would simply be locked and others deleted.

My curiosity has been satisfied, thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes a thread initiator wants their post deleted, but the thread is many pages long and contains an incredible amount of caring input by other posters. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Was that not the case with this thread? And no I didn't have a dog in the race other than a "lurking" one. What 3 pages and some people responded and answered the question directly with nothing but kind words. IMO there was some valuable (at least caring) posts and input that was deleted.

More often than not, I have seen many ask that a thread be deleted and told that it could/would be locked but not deleted because of others input. But you know what, consistency is hard in all aspects of life.

Moderators, I do thank you for your efforts and time in keeping this board running smoothly (most of the time) and available.

To ba:

You said "My POV is that there is a conflict of interest issue here. That's ok. At least now I know what we are working with. I can live with that."

Ok...now my personal disclaimer. I'm not a moderator at all on any MB boards or anything remotely related to MB subjects).

But this is pretty common throughout the net. MOST moderators are recruited from memberships, and as they generally aren't paid, that's how they are found. Good, caring people dedicated to assisting with the goals of the forum. Such people sometimes do have their own questions they'd like to post, as they (obviously) care about the forum's subject matter. Admins usually ask that it occur with seperate screen name.

It's not unique to MB. It's standard operating procedure for the net.

Arch, I think you guys do a great job here btw. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ba,

If it's any consolation....I did a search on the Internet about how to become a moderator in a forum. Evidently it is STANDARD practice for the moderators to be members of the forum they moderate....in fact, it is a prerequisite for all the ones that I read about. If there is a conflict of interest....then to a degree....it's a relatively universal one. My impression is that when a mod leaves, or another opening occurs, that mods are recruited both from the people who other mods have noticed are knowledgeable, fair and experience....or they are advertised on the net and encouraged to participate in the forums and fill out applications once they have done so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And, just in closing, FYI, I've never scolded myself...myselves? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have never laughed at a Moderator before. I hope that's ok?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You know .. even the sight of your nick Arch brings a little chill to me... lol

BTW .. thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ... I never realized you guys (or is it a girl?) don't get paid.

I don't think MB could pay me enough to do your job. For real.

Dzzz