Oh, fuuuuuuuuuuuu.........

God, that's something I wouldn't want in my head.

Was this a rage answer that you gave him or something? Or was it something your BH intercepted?

Holy cow, is that a crushing blow.

Anyone else dealt with something like this? Any advice for this one?

Thank you for the link, DNM. Time and patience...it is difficult, and it's for selfish reasons. I KNOW what I want and it's DH. I don't expect him to forgive and forget - I want forgiveness when he is able, but neither of us will never forget. I want us to begin to heal our M together. And patience was never my strong suit, and it is now a lesson that I am having to learn.

My thought exactly. He texted this to me in the middle of the work meeting I was in this morning. I thought I was going to throw up.


No, I never said it to DH. If he's got it in his head, it would have been from something he intercepted. I don't remember every word I said or wrote to OM when I was carrying on the A. People may accuse me of lying, but I just don't remember every conversation, text or email exchange we had. I've read some of the things that DH recovered and reading the things I wrote made me physically ill.

DH asked me both questions and I answered honestly - was OM bigger? No. Was sex better? No. OM was intent on scratching his own itch and only that. I wrote in an earlier post that DH asked me if I'd climaxed with OM. I answered that as well - no. In the fantasy world I was stuck in, I said the things that OM wanted to hear. I've never had any complaints in the attributes of my DH, KWIM? And the only complaint I had about SF with DH was the frequency, not the quality.

I mentioned I'm doing the Respect Dare. Well, there's a lot of examining yourself to start with in this first week - the ideas you have about yourself, about marriage, etc. For me, I believe SF is more about intimacy in general than the act. That's not to say I don't like it - I do. I think I wanted SF more often with DH because intimacy in our lives was lacking in other areas. I needed SF with DH to feel reassured of intimacy. I think it became my substitute for affection and admiration.

Before I met DH, when I was in high school and my first couple of years in college, I sought attention from guys and would pretty much do whatever I wanted b/c I wanted them to like me. I wanted their attention and their affection, but in reality what I got was a lack of respect and I was treated like garbage. I can't put myself in DH's shoes b/c I was never cheated on - I was always dumped before my relationships got to that point.

When I met DH, he was different. Yes, we had SF before we were married. In fact, we'd known each other for a few months and were in the same circle of friends. We were actually "hooked up" by one of those friends in what I thought was a one-night stand. But here's where DH was different. After we made love that night, he had to go to work. I honestly figured he wouldn't come back. But he did. He came back to me before the morning. And I knew he wasn't like the other guys that used me like so much garbage.

I was completely messed up when I met DH. I was failing out of college. I'd just gotten out of a relationship with an emotional abuser, a guy that pretty much all we did together was drink and get high and I allowed to insult me and put me down. DH was different. He was my rock. I straightened out. I settled down. I ended up changing my major and going on to grad school. And I give him the credit for getting me off the self-destructive spiral I was on.

And yet I allowed myself to self-destruct again, when I had so much more at stake in my life. I allowed myself to be treated as garbage by OM. And none of the above negates the fact that I willingly entered into a relationship with OM. Yes, there was a lot of "sexy" talk, but I was so caught up in the fantasy I would have talked about nuclear physics if I had the OM's attention - I craved the attention and the "high" I got from it. Of course, the fact that sex was not my motivator doesn't change the fact that I did it.

Regardless of what happens, I do know myself better now. I know why the A happened. Yeah, I still start beating myself up sometimes with "why, why WHY???" but Harley's "formula" for A's is pretty straightforward. I know how to maintain my boundaries and stick to EPs to keep one from happening ever again. I get beaten down some days, but I make a choice every day to continue to fight for my M.

I think often about that first night DH and I were together. How he came back.

Anyway, I'm babbling. It's been a long day. Tomorrow will be better.

FWW and I are cheering for you both, every day.

There are good and bad things about that. FWW fears facing in me what you face in your BH. I kinda flipped out a couple days this past week - I can't excuse it, and it did me no real good.

I'm still trying to figure out how to handle it when crap builds up, and unfortunately the only thing I know how to do right now is shut down. The only thing she knows how to do is to fight me.

I flamed SO hard... so, so hard... I really wrecked her and kind of twisted how she felt I think about her. I scared her, too. Not because I am loud, or violent, but because I went COLD. She's waiting for the time when I turn cold like that, and it doesn't stop... and it would be over.

And, again - the echoes of my FWW in your posts... it wasn't a love fantasy, it wasn't the defilement, it was simply the attention. Just the attention. Well, that and the thrill of being chased - "the hunt, the high."

That's what I nuked over. I stripped the last illusion; "If OM hadn't have pushed so hard..." No, if you hadn't stood to be pushed.



God, I'm not proud of that, and that total realization stepped me back, too.


I'm rambling on your thread... sorry.

Anyway, totally feel you on the intimacy within SF - it was something I felt was lacking between FWW and I for YEARS, and every time I tried to address it, she thought I just wanted more sex. And then I gave up. On all of it.

WPG, he is different. You are different. And that is what is so damaging about what happened.

I really hope for him, for you, for you both, that he can find a way out of this cave he is hiding himself in, things really can be better...

WPG,

"Hard to believe when you told the OM he was bigger and better in bed."

After my wifes affair with OM2 she told me one time "you don't have a big....." It was an unimportant statement to her, but something died inside of me at that moment, I can't recall the pain from some of my physical scars but that one oh GOD.

I think the contrast effect also works with the BH and the OM in that the BH compares himself to the OM and hates himself or some part/parts of himself.

God Bless
Gamma

It's hard for a betrayed spouse to believe, and I would have trouble believing it if I had not seen it with my own eyes. My wife was incensed to discover the keylogger I had placed on her computer. When she asked why I did it (around December 2009), I told her about the email I'd saved from the secret account we had closed together on the day she finally wrote the no-contact letter. In that email, she bragged to OM about finally figuring out how to use the "private browsing" feature of her web browser, and how much trouble they could have avoided if she'd learned about it earlier, and how she looked forward to using it in the future to avoid discovery.

This was AFTER she'd promised No-contact weeks earlier, but failed to follow through.

She didn't remember ever sending that email. One of the most damning indicators of her state of mind that I'd found, and she didn't believe she'd ever sent it.

There were a bunch of explanations offered on the forum for why this was, most of them suggesting that she was still an active wayward in some way.

Jennifer Harley Chalmers provided a different explanation to me as part of her treatment strategy for us. It was that people tend to forget actions that are inconsistent with their view of themselves. FWW had forgotten because those actions were no longer consistent with her current behavior and view of herself. Jennifer encouraged me not to try to force her to remember those incidents, as FWW was trying so hard to forget them. Every time I brought them up again, I was reinforcing that memory which, in order for us to recover, she would eventually have to forget. Reinforced memories take longer to expire, extending her withdrawal symptoms.

This was, of course, 4 months after NC-day, and FWW was clearly still suffering from withdrawal symptoms after her EA. They are completely gone now as far as I can see.

So I guess what I'm saying is that "I get it", but if that message came from you to your BH, it would sound incredibly self-serving. If it had come from my FWW at the time, I'd not have to believe it, either. It had to come from a competent third-party whom I had provisionally decided to trust in order for me to believe it.


I've read some of the things that DH recovered and reading the things I wrote made me physically ill.

DH asked me both questions and I answered honestly - was OM bigger? No. Was sex better? No. OM was intent on scratching his own itch and only that. I wrote in an earlier post that DH asked me if I'd climaxed with OM. I answered that as well - no. In the fantasy world I was stuck in, I said the things that OM wanted to hear. I've never had any complaints in the attributes of my DH, KWIM? And the only complaint I had about SF with DH was the frequency, not the quality.

I mentioned I'm doing the Respect Dare. Well, there's a lot of examining yourself to start with in this first week - the ideas you have about yourself, about marriage, etc. For me, I believe SF is more about intimacy in general than the act. That's not to say I don't like it - I do. I think I wanted SF more often with DH because intimacy in our lives was lacking in other areas. I needed SF with DH to feel reassured of intimacy. I think it became my substitute for affection and admiration.

Before I met DH, when I was in high school and my first couple of years in college, I sought attention from guys and would pretty much do whatever I wanted b/c I wanted them to like me. I wanted their attention and their affection, but in reality what I got was a lack of respect and I was treated like garbage. I can't put myself in DH's shoes b/c I was never cheated on - I was always dumped before my relationships got to that point.

When I met DH, he was different. Yes, we had SF before we were married. In fact, we'd known each other for a few months and were in the same circle of friends. We were actually "hooked up" by one of those friends in what I thought was a one-night stand. But here's where DH was different. After we made love that night, he had to go to work. I honestly figured he wouldn't come back. But he did. He came back to me before the morning. And I knew he wasn't like the other guys that used me like so much garbage.

I was completely messed up when I met DH. I was failing out of college. I'd just gotten out of a relationship with an emotional abuser, a guy that pretty much all we did together was drink and get high and I allowed to insult me and put me down. DH was different. He was my rock. I straightened out. I settled down. I ended up changing my major and going on to grad school. And I give him the credit for getting me off the self-destructive spiral I was on.

And yet I allowed myself to self-destruct again, when I had so much more at stake in my life. I allowed myself to be treated as garbage by OM. And none of the above negates the fact that I willingly entered into a relationship with OM. Yes, there was a lot of "sexy" talk, but I was so caught up in the fantasy I would have talked about nuclear physics if I had the OM's attention - I craved the attention and the "high" I got from it. Of course, the fact that sex was not my motivator doesn't change the fact that I did it.

Regardless of what happens, I do know myself better now. I know why the A happened. Yeah, I still start beating myself up sometimes with "why, why WHY???" but Harley's "formula" for A's is pretty straightforward. I know how to maintain my boundaries and stick to EPs to keep one from happening ever again. I get beaten down some days, but I make a choice every day to continue to fight for my M.

I think often about that first night DH and I were together. How he came back.

Anyway, I'm babbling. It's been a long day. Tomorrow will be better. [/quote]

No, you are exactly right. Neither me or your FWW can blame the OM's for the A. Sure, OM pushed. But we allowed it. We welcomed it. But as I've seen on other threads, the OM was under no obligation to protect our M - it was OUR responsibility, and one we failed at.


I'm so sorry, Gamma...I know I've done some horrible things, but verbally degrading DH's appearance I've never done. I understand that a man can view an A in that light, however, but hear me out for a sec.

The emotionally abusive relationship I was in prior to DH was with a man who constantly belittled me. He called me fat, he told me my breasts were too small, he insulted my intelligence and called me stupid. Sad thing is he wasn't the first guy I put up with who degraded my appearance, he was just one of the worst. I couldn't imagine saying something like that to anyone b/c I know how that feels.

Unfortunately it didn't stop me from hurting DH in other ways, with other words, maybe not said directly to him but words he read nonetheless. He uncovered so much evidence in the form of emails and texts that he has a lot of words to get over. I said stupid cr@p to OM like "When I hear a love song I think of you, not the man I married." WTF is that? Makes me want to throw up. DH can barely stand to listen to music anymore because of a stupid statement like that. It doesn't matter that it's not true now, in the present, because I said it during the A. I try to do things to counter stuff like that, I'll send song lyrics to DH and I even made him a "mix CD" for Valentine's Day. DH is the only man on my mind now. I just keep trying to show him that. He's told me that he fears he can never compare to what I had with OM. Out of the fog, in reality, the truth is that DH is so much more than OM ever was or could be.



Makes sense. When he texted that to me yesterday I didn't address the content of the message, I stuck to emphasizing that he was my choice, that I was committed to him and our future together. If he read it in some of what I wrote, I'm not denying I wrote it. And saying it is not true, well, it's still something I said, and my word right now is worth pretty much nothing. But I agree, none of that is consistent with how I see myself now, and I hate remembering it because I hate who I was and what I did. I don't want to give OM any more space in my mind.

I'm not in withdrawal from the A/OM anymore. The thought of having any contact with OM makes me sick. Right now I'm desperately in love with my DH. I can't even begin to imagine what withdrawal from DH will feel like if he decides that I'm not worth it. I think DH believes sometimes still that when I get down, that I am depressed over not having OM (not making a DJ, he's actually said as much to me). OM is not why I get depressed - I get depressed over what I have done, over the pain DH is in, the obstacles in the whole recovery process. Nor am I still an active wayward. I'm doing all I can to show DH that I am transparent, open, honest, accountable. I refuse to fail him again.



Thanks, HHH...I hope so too. There are some positive signs. I'm not losing hope! btw, my poly is scheduled for Monday. I'm ready to do it and put that behind me and hope it will at least give DH some reassurance I'm telling the truth. And I wish only the best for you and your FWW. I'm glad if our experiences help you both in any way. If you and your FWW are religious in any way, I highly recommend adding to your reading list "Love and Respect" (Eggerichs) and Chapman's "Five Love Languages." I actually read those before I found MB, but I've found they compliment what I have learned/am learning in MB very well. I also liked Nancy Anderson's "Avoiding the Greener Grass Syndrome" - and Anderson is a FWW who was able to successfully reconcile with her H and rebuild their M. lol those will keep you busy for a while!

There's a lot of reason behind it, WPG.

We read over your posts last night, and as you were going over your own history, how you behave, etc, FWW looked at me and said "Is she my long lost twin or something?"

Similar stories are bound to happen; similar lives, thought processes, attitudes.

It's one of the reasons we are drawn to things like "group therapy." We want to know how other people view things, and the more people appear similar to us, the more we are able to understand ourselves and other through them if we can't do it on our own.

May have to check those books out - we were reading SAA, but have kind of fallen out of it. Not that it wasn't interesting, but we had been over so much of it that it felt like a lot of retread.

May have to get back and picking at it and finish it. I know someone who needs it now more than we do...

Looks like Conflict to me�.

I actually had something similar occur in connection with my A. I was, as far as I can tell, able to explain to my H in a way he is able to accept and I want to share that with you FWIW.

You said:


Could this have resulted in you developing certain unhealthy attitudes towards SF that you carried into your M?

I was taught that SF was dirty and secret, that my body and its workings were a source of shame. I cheapened SF, so giving it away was no big deal. I started dating my H when I was 15 (note my advanced age) and naturally carried those 15 year old girl hang-ups into my M likely more than I would have had I married someone else.

With OM, I was free to be whatever � nothing remotely �out there� happened. It was more about my ability to relax, to shed that 15-year-old girl. It was still just sex � the spiritual dimension I had always longed for that gave the act meaning wasn�t present with OM either.

I explained that to my H that it wasn�t that OM was superior in any way � the difference was in me. I told him that I wanted to take what I had learned about myself and use that information to create a healthy, spiritually connected sexual relationship that was expressive of our bond. Since my answer made sense in the context of our relationship, he seems to have accepted it.


It is true you can�t put yourself in your BH�s shoes, but in effect you dumped him so you have an idea. I find it helpful to look back on those times that I have felt most betrayed by people I trusted, and think what actions they could have taken to restore trust.

I think this may be on your H�s mind. I do the self-destruct thing too. My H said he didn�t want to get in the way of the shrapnel again. If your H sees that self-destructive pattern in your behavior, he may have a non-specific fear of the pattern repeating. Have you considered telling him the self-destructive pattern you have noticed and sharing with him what steps you are taking to get yourself healthy? He may not feel you are safe until you are healthier.


What do you think he was trying to express with that message?

How did it make you feel?

Consider completing the feedback loop.

Assume he�s saying �I�m hurting badly�

Validate the feeling. �I know how badly you are hurting.�

Accept responsibility: �I am responsible for you hurting like this�you did nothing to deserve the pain I have inflicted on you.�

Describe intended course of action: �I can�t go back and un-do it, but I am going to do whatever I can to make amends and make this a safe M for you.�

Describe your feeling: �You text made me feel dirty and hopeless (or whatever you felt � that�s how I would have reacted)(a DJ). I want to talk about the content with you as I know it is a source of great pain (see above).�

Suggest a different way of communicating the same feeling: �When you are hurting, I want to know so that I can do whatever there is to do to help me. Next time that happens, could you come to me and say �I�m hurting� instead or is there another signal we can agree on?�

State your goal: I want to create a wonderful intimate M with you as you are the absolute love of my life. Do you have any thoughts on how we can achieve that?

Re-validate: I know how much I�ve hurt you, and I am so sorry.

I think it is important for you to tell him how the text made you feel for a few reasons. First, O & H � probably the number one EN of 99% of BS�s for a while.

Second, I think you are getting worn out. Communicating your expectations on a respectful safe way to discuss the A will conserve your emotional energy. If the A keeps popping up in unexpected ways and situations, your resulting anxiety is going to take its toll and any resulting resentment will make it harder for you to genuinely try to meet his needs.

Third, if he�s in Conflict, he may need something to conflict with if that makes sense.

Finally, are you familiar with the concept of secondary gain?

DrH says:


The link to the whole Q&A is: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html I encourage you to read the whole article.

That may not have any relevance to your fact pattern, but you might want to be aware of it. I know there are no norms and I can�t begin to understand what a BH is going through. Sending that text over 10 months after DD seems like a long time.

I hope the polygraph will put some of this to rest.

There are four choices following infidelity:
1. The spouses decide to work to create a healthy marriage
2. One or both spouses choose to divorce and work to become healthy individuals
3. The spouses choose to stay in an unhealthy marriage
4. One or both spouses choose to divorce and stay unhealthy individuals.

Which box are you checking? Which box is he checking?

Oh yeah. I can definitely see that I had unhealthy attitudes towards sex. My parents barely had the "birds and bees" talk with me. I remember the day Mom sat me down, though. I'd just spent the weekend at my grandmother's house with my little brother, my cousin (who was a year older than me) and one of her girl friends. My brother was probably around 4, which would have put me at about 9. My grandmother had let all the kids take a bath together. My cousin's friend started playing with my brother and putting him on top of her. Of course I was clueless at the time but I was sitting there watching my brother get molested. Anyway once my parents found out, Mom sat me down for a very cursory "birds and bees" talk and that was it. Never got any further information from them. And the whole bathtub incident was never discussed again. I too felt like my body was dirty, that sex was not something that you talk about. I cheapened the act too - I stayed a virgin until my senior year in high school, but after that, once I got to college, I couldn't understand what the big deal was and I gave my body away to whoever would show me a little bit of attention.


Good point. I have offered him the freedom to read my journal and my notebook I have for the Respect Dare course. I've been leaving them out in the open and writing in them in front of him, but today I told him I did not mind if he read them. I've told him I don't mind him reading my thread here, either. Part of protecting myself from self-destructive behaviors is maintaining my boundaries. A fear I have in the back of my mind is how successful I will be if DH decides he's done. How successful will I be at keeping myself from self-destructing?


I agree I have not been doing great at being O&H about my feelings. I'm afraid to let DH see me as anything other than positive, optimistic and hopeful...I am afraid to "push" him or do anything that makes him uncomfortable. I finally emailed him about a few things that were on my mind (the text was one, and another was last night where he woke me up and started cuddling with me - he wasn't real sexually aggressive and I was afraid to take things further because I wasn't sure what he wanted...argh!) And I do feel like I am getting worn out holding all of it in. Writing here and journaling is helping. I still have my near-panic attacks and will start crying for no reason but each day is a chance to get better. I am still hopeful because he does pop into conflict and even intimacy from time to time, but I see your point that being O&H will give us something to be in conflict about - a chance to start putting the MB concepts to work and give us some things to start POJA'ing on...

DNM sent me the link to that article yesterday about resentment and secondary gain. I can't imagine being 10 years out and like S.K.'s situation.


Thanks for all the advice, seeking...I know which one I want. I am still hopeful DH wants the same one.

Yep. After reading "Surviving An Affair", "Love Busters", and "Effective Marriage Counseling", "His Needs, Her Needs for Parents" feels like a retread, too. We stopped before we got to the chapter on handling conflicts over housework... that's the next one we want to read, I think.

Unless he saw you as always positive, optimistic and hopeful pre-A, this is probably scaring the bejesus out of him.

My H got really nervous when I went all cheerful and upbeat on him.

BS�s can smell inauthenticity a mile away, even if they can�t put their finger on it. Like a deer in the headlights, they freeze or run.


When was the last time you had a fight or asked him to do something you knew he didn�t want to do? When was the last time you addressed a substantive conflict ridden issue in your M or regarding your kids where the A did NOT come up?


I can�t imagine being ten months out and being in your situation.


Have you told him this? I think it is one of the most important conversations I have ever had with my H. It brought out a tenderness in him I didn�t think he had.


Fear talking here. Fear and intimacy cannot coexist in the same person.

Consider sitting down and talking to him about the pattern you have noticed. Ask him what he has observed. Talk through the different contexts which trigger your self destructive tendencies. For me, it�s feeling powerless. For you, it might be something else. Strategize with him on how he can help you manage this. Communicate that you NEED him. Men like that. JL said so so it must be true.

I think � and remember I know NOTHING � that each of you is keeping the A alive and kicking for your own set of reasons. It feeds your lack of self worth, or fear of intimacy or masochistic tendencies. I don�t know � but it is serving a purpose.

Ask yourself what purpose it is serving you and address those issues. Then ask him what it would take to close the door on this chapter of your life in a very short time frame, as in within a week.

DrH does not advocate dragging out the discussion of the A over months. If you are allowing or inviting that to continue, you are making a choice to not follow the MB program.

This isn't good for you, him, your M or your children.

Do all of yourselves a favor. Locate your backbone and close the door on the A, firmly, kindly and permanently.

He is still there for a reason. Start playing to win. Right now, you are playing not to lose.

WPG,

but verbally degrading DH's appearance I've never done. I understand that a man can view an A in that light, however, but hear me out for a sec.

Well actually you did by saying OM was bigger, when I read what you wrote I immediately translated that into H is smaller. For a guy, painful honesty I'm sorry, that statement makes time stand still and all other history becomes prelude.

And I do understand that the things you said during the A are not at the front of your mind now, but are they still there?

One trait I think perhaps I have in common with your H is that it takes me a long time to trust given my background, when however I do trust subsequent betrayal is devastating.

God Bless
Gamma

DNM,

It was that people tend to forget actions that are inconsistent with their view of themselves. FWW had forgotten because those actions were no longer consistent with her current behavior and view of herself. Jennifer encouraged me not to try to force her to remember those incidents, as FWW was trying so hard to forget them. Every time I brought them up again, I was reinforcing that memory which, in order for us to recover, she would eventually have to forget. Reinforced memories take longer to expire, extending her withdrawal symptoms.

Thanks for writing that,

How did Jennifer suggest you get the full truth if you don't bring up the incidents?

God Bless
Gamma

I don't think the continued focus on the A by you or your H is healthy, nor is it the MB program.

In the MB program, DrH says there should be a finite period of time where the A is discussed, and then it ends.

If you are doing MB, you need to close that door. It's not an easy door to close, but what a relief when it happens. But it has to close the right way.

The point is not why or whether you have forgotten. The point is to give your H the information he needs to move on within a specific time frame -- I'd give him no more than three days after the polygraph results which frankly had I come on the scene earlier I would have strongly discouraged you from doing --such that the A can be put to rest. Over a year after DD1, and 10 months after DD2, the A appears to be dominating both of your lives.

I find it hard to believe that anyone on this site is going to think that there is anything remotely healthy or helpful about him sending you a text about relative penis size in the middle of a work meeting that causes you to break down and cry.

There is something seriously sick about that, IMO.

DrH is does not believe that long term discussions (i.e. 10 months) about the A are useful to restoring the M, and in fact suggests otherwise.

WP if you are going to implement the MB program, you need to set a serious near term boundary on this discussion and then move on to the other elements of the program.

It is your H's choice to not move on with you.

If I sit down and purposely try to remember words said, I can remember some of it. I can remember details about where we had lunch together; I can probably remember what I ordered off the menu andthe clothes I wore; I can remember details about the sex; I can tell you what the inside of his house looked like; etc. But why on earth would I WANT to do that? I don't want to remember any of it. So I purposely DON'T dwell on it because it makes me miserable.


Yes, I can see that in my H. He did start to trust me again and yet I lied to him for months, and that had made it so much worse.

Thanks seeking - your words have really helped.


Good point. We haven't had any fights/conflicts, even minor disagreements other than A-related. I have generally let him do what he wants to do without a peep. And it's not that there have been many things we've fought over pre-A - we have thus far been pretty much in agreement when it comes to the kids, for example. Our biggest disagreement area was money. I used to manage all the finances and I'd complain over his spending, which he said was a LB...so now I've been trying to NOT complain about his spending but I think I went way too far to the other extreme and have been letting him buy whatever he wants. I've been so scared to make him mad at me I've kept quiet.

ahhh, I am so stupid.


He knows some of it. Never told him about the thing with my brother and our cousin's friend. Always felt like that was my bro's secret and I shouldn't talk about it. He does know that I was date-raped in college (long story short, passed out drunk in a guy's bed, woke up naked with no idea what happened).


And JL is one smart cookie! I was honest with him yesterday about the fear I feel. Since he hadn't seemed like he wanted to talk I emailed him. He responded, not so much directly to my fears, I don't know, it was wierd, but we ended up having SF and going out to have dinner together so it must have helped somehow. He said in the email that I deserve a second chance. But I guess I get gun-shy because he's told me a zillion things since January and then they seem to change and he seems to act like he regrets - or forgets - saying them...I know it's my fear talking but I can't help it.




I feel like I can't let it go because it is so present for him...every time I try to pull myself beyond it and move forward something happens that smacks me in the face with it again - whether it's a text, DH withdrawing or pulling away, and immediately the whole "I'm a wh*re" tape starts playing in my head again. I'm much better at distracting myself now but that's not the point...the point is I desperately want healing to begin.

JC said I couldn't be too MB-heavy with DH until he commits to the program, and he still has not told me that he's ready to do MB together. Oh, sure, he posts here but that doesn't mean he wants to put the concepts in place. Although she did tell me that if he wouldn't commit, then in a month write another letter similar to the first one. It's past time for that.

Question - why would you have advised against the poly? Yeah, I really don't feel like doing it. It's expensive and I'm sick of dredging the facts of the A up. He told me he believed me - after January, after he had the whole truth - then he allowed doubts to creep in to the point he doesn't believe me anymore. DJ coming, I know - but I think he'll end up doing the same thing with the poly. Claim they're only 85-95% accurate! Or I found a way to beat it! Whatever. At that point I don't know what I'll do, but at least I will know I did everything I could to try and address the doubts.

I know it's not good for any of us. My emotions/mental health has been so dodgy for so long that my physical health is suffering. The kids are resilient, but they know something's wrong. They were so happy when things were going well, I mean DH and I would be hugging or cuddling and they'd jump right in, "Family hug!" But I was lying to DH during all of it. And I worry about DH's health, emotionally/mentally/physically.

Anyway, my posts are the longest posts ever, lol...I just wanted to thank you for what you said, seeking. I know it's his choice. I'm going to give him a poly, I'm going to keep giving him Plan A as best I can, but yeah, I have set a "date" in my head - I haven't told him, but yes, there is a point where I am going to make a decision what to do. I will call Jennifer C. before I do it so she can help me. I love him so much and I wish I could just take the last 2 years back. Erase and start over.

WPG, two quick points:

1) If DH wants you to take a poly, take it. You're not a defendant in court trying to get off easy in an adversarial situation . You're a FWW who's trying to help her BH heal.

2) Don't give him deadlines & ultimatums . You're only 14 months past D-Day #1. Unless you can say with a straight face & no doubts that you're being genuinely abused, you do what love does & persevere, and you implement the Four Rules. Focus.

Next time he's watching TV by himself, even if it's not your kind of show, go down & offer to fix him him a glass of that Mountain Dew crap that he likes, and just sit with him a little while.

How incredibly foggy. It is not for the FWS to place time limits on BS recovery. It is not for the FWS to decide what information the BS needs or what they should do with it. There has been one FR already and WPG was a convincing liar. How is BH supposed to tell truth from fiction now? A polygraph is frequently recommended in cases like this.


x2

I believe you are doing some very hard work. Though sometimes you miss some key points.

Think about Friday night and why your BH got out of bed.

He hasn�t asked for it, has indicated he won�t believe it, WP hasn't told him she is taking it, and it is a lot of money.

Spending a lot of money without telling him for something he hasn't asked for and has indicated he will not accept doesn't strike me as a useful thing to do.

Originally Posted By: seekingbalance
The point is to give your H the information he needs to move on within a specific time frame -- I'd give him no more than three days after the polygraph results which frankly had I come on the scene earlier I would have strongly discouraged you from doing --such that the A can be put to rest.



I believe what I suggested is in line with MB principles. If JC has told WP something different, she should follow JC.