Trapped,

His mother has obviously enabled your EX's behavior for a very long time. She justifies what she has done (or failed to do) in his life by saying:

"Look at what I'M going through. My situation trumps yours, so I have the right to treat everyone else like crap. Just ask JON."

She has treated her son miserably, and used this excuse to be who she is. She isn't on your side, so do not call or write or contact her anymore. She isn't worth the effort. When you are past the fog of being in this relationship, you will see this so CLEARLY you will not believe it.


Every day your life will be better.

Regarding the legal stuff? Let the lawyer handle it.

Regarding the X calling you about the children? Tell him that you would appreciate fewer calls. He is NOT calling to check on them. He is calling to get a fix of YOU. Make that very clear in your mind.

Tell him that he is allowed to call and talk to the GIRLS after they are home from school. ONE CALL.

And that since the two of you are no longer a couple, he must not depend on you for emotional support. As hard as this is for you to say, he needs to hear it. Because every time you give him that support

he believes

you will let him come back.



Stop that behavior now.


The fact is that your emotional well-being is not supported INSIDE that relationship. You cannot continue to be anchored to him

because when he calls?

YOU are also leaning on him. Believe it.


It is the first step on the WRONG PATH. You will end up going back and forth and back and forth with him.


Stop it now.


One call a day - after school.
You will call him if there is a NEED or EMERGENCY.
YOU do NOT talk with him about ANYTHING.

You just don't need to anymore. It. Is. Over.


SB

Oh, and stop worrying about his:

driver's license
mom
job
self-help skills

or any of that.

You are not, and never have been, his keeper.

He is a grown man who needs to take care of his own self - and YOU need to be watching your own garden grow.


SB

Thankyou, I feel much more rest assured. I just have to quit panicking and trust my lawyer. I am half tempted to tell him to take Jennifer back and take her to school every morning, considering he is telling me that there isn't a judge in Texas that will seperate Jennifer from her sister. The thing is, I'm the one taking care of both of them, but if he's going to tell the judge that he's taking care of Jennifer, maybe he should be the one taking care of her. I dunno, I really think Jenny is happier since he moved out, she's certainly had much fewer emotional outbursts. Thankyou Schoolbus, I love hearing from you, you have truelly inspired me to get out of that crappy situation. I feel so wonderful since I've gotten away. And no I will not be looking for another man for quite some time because I am very very very happy being on my own for now. My daughter is more than enough to live for.

X's&O's
No Longer Trapped

I am very upset now. Jon spoke with his lawyer, and his lawyer advised him to pull Jennifer out of her school and transfer her to a more local school next to him. As much as this upset me, it upset me even more when I went up to the school to say goodbye to her after her school bell let out. I gave her a hug and I told her goodbye and I let her know that no matter what her father and grandmother told her, I wanted her to know that she is very much loved and that I would give nearly anything to keep her here. As I dropped her off at her fathers car, he started yelling at me and calling me a [censored] in front of her and he told her that it wasn't just him that I was leaving, that I wanted both of them to go. This frustrates me so badly because it is so far from the truth it makes me sick. I met up with them back at my house a few minutes later because Jenny wanted to get some more of her stuff. We got to have a small talk before she left, and I let her know that by staying with Daddy, I would only be teaching her that it was okay for men to talk to women the way that her father talked to me. She rebuttled and told me that the only reason her daddy acted that way was because of all the work he had done on the house and how we were so ungreatful. I let her know that no matter what the circumstances, it is never okay for any man to talk to her that way, and there is no excuse for the way her dad had talked to me. I emphasized again how much I loved her and how I would do everything I could to make things right, and that she was always welcome to come back to the house and that the room would always be hers. She left a few seconds later, the entire time her father was calling me an ingrate and a [censored] and that I was going to go to hell for being nothing but a homewrecker. I can't wait to be rid of him.

All this stemmed from him speaking to his lawyer after I filed for custody and supposedly this is supposed to be his last trip to the house. At least I know now that with him taking care of Jennifer, there is no longer a need for me to communicate with me, but through our lawyers. So depressed right now, but I know I've done the right thing, I only pray that he doesn't ruin his eldest, and I really hope that she listens to me and she knows that she is loved.

There is a fascinating thing that I know about children.


They always remember the place that felt the safest to them, and they always know that person who was the one who told the truth.


Sometimes adults place kids into situations where they have to pledge loyalty to whoever has them

only because they have no control over their own lives

and they do not want to hurt the feelings of a parent

even when that parent has been horrible to them.


As a child raised in a very abusive home, I can say that I always knew the truth of my life. I was not able to confront anyone, especially my dad, because HE HELD THE POWER of my world in his hands.

They won't risk it unless it is life or death. Sadly enough, the consequences of what the adults in power do are often far-reaching and long-term. I see it every day.

Jenny will stand by her dad, and he will paint you to be the most horrible person in the world for leaving "them".


Sooner or later, your words will ring in her head, as he or another man say or do things that she knows are wrong.

They will ring loudly. And in that moment YOU will be the one she follows.

Because you set the example, told her what you were doing and why, and you stuck to it. Children do not forget being loved.


Don't for a moment believe otherwise. She saw your strength, in the face of her own father's panic and anger.


You have done the right thing - the only thing - you could do.


Focus now on your daughter - the person at your side. Help her to get through this, and to understand what peace there can be in strength, determination, and the willingness to stand up for yourself.


You have a daughter to teach, and she is watching.

Everything.


SB

chiming in...i just want to thank you for that schoolbus. funny but i needed to hear it in this moment. trapped, i wish you the best, you are going to make it.

It totally feels like I am being harassed right now. I cannot change my phone number due to several employers calling me back about job interviews. He keeps leaving me voicemails telling me to quit talking to his family, some of which have actually gone out of their way to talk to me. He says he's going to subpoena the entire family and that they will testify that they never saw him being mentally or verbally abusive against me. I am so frustrated with this whole mess. I'm waiting to hear back from my lawyer in regards to whether or not I have to keep contact with him. He keeps leaving voicemails about me and my "f**ked" up family. In all honesty I think his family is more messed up than mine, my family never got involved with the drug culture, his family snorted cocaine up their nose and did acid and all those other crazy barbituates that make a person go crazy. He's already informed me that he is not going to sign the waiver that keeps him from getting served.

He took Jennifer away from me, and even though he is not taking care of her, she is now staying with her mother's parents while they take her to school for the rest of the term. He has forbidden me from seeing her or speaking to her, which frustrates me because I've been making every accomodation up til now to allow him to see Katie. I realize that legally he can do this because Jennifer is not my daughter, but I do not know if I'm legally allowed to withold visitation from Katie until this goes to court. He is becoming increasingly more hostile and he's got it in his mind that I am the one trying to seperate Katie and Jennifer, which is not the case. I flat out refuse to live with him anymore and that is the truth. God only knows what he's told Jennifer. He keeps saying that he's only telling her the truth, but its his version of the truth which is what infuriates me so badly, I wish he would just tell her that it is between me and him. Its hard to be an adult around someone that acts like this. I've quit answering his phone calls, and he's making threats to come and get Katie while I am at school. Only two more weeks and I will be finished. I'm so bummed right now, it feels like the longer this takes to go to court the more opportunity there is to make mistakes. I am trying to save all the voice mails but my voice mail box is getting full now. Any ideas?

Trapped in a whole new ordeal

I am much more relieved now. I spoke with my lawyer, and she is issuing a citation for a temporary restraining order so that he can no longer harrass me by telephone. Phew! I just have one other question right now if anybody knows what I am talking about. Jon called me from his cell phone telling me that he wasn't going to let me seperate the girls even though it was so obviously what I was trying to do...according to him or course. And after he stopped talking, I heard him speaking with his lawyer for a minute or two although I couldn't really make out the entire conversation. Do you think his lawyer set that up so that they could intimidate me or do you think Jon unintentionally forgot to hangup? Not really sure what to make of it.

Sounds like a set up to me, only he thought he clicked you off and he blew it. Make a note of this call, date, time, for your records.




You need to understand that he is probably recording all of his calls to you. Whenever you talk to him, make sure you keep what you say to an absolute minimum. For example, if he starts in about how you want to keep the girls separated, you should respond "that is not true" and LEAVE IT at that. He is trying to draw you into saying things that would be bad if heard in court. Say nothing to him unless it is absolutely necessary. When he calls and you have to talk to him, if he goes off on a rant, tell him that he is being "verbally abusive" and you will hang up if he continues.

Then, HANG UP if he continues. Don't say a word, not good-bye, no arguing, simply remain completely calm in what you say. Do not raise your voice, offer information about what you think of him or his family, NOTHING. Pretend he is a salesman calling you, and when you are offended, say so - then the warning, "I will hang up if you continue being abusive in your language". And hang up if he goes on.




Keep the voice mails, even if your box gets full. Call the phone co to see what they can do to help you move the calls onto your computer for your records. They might be able to help with that.


Do not send anything - at all - in writing to this man. His lawyer will use it against you.

If you must write anything, keep it to a minimum. NOTHING about how you feel toward him, or what's going on, none of it. Only business, and only if absolutely necessary.

Do not offer him any reasons for why you are doing anything. Do not argue with him about whether or not his family is better than yours. Those kinds of arguments are for playgrounds - you are grown up. Stop letting him bait you.


This is about YOU getting AWAY from him.

And who really cares if he subpoenas 1,000 people? It will cost him in a major way. At some point, he runs out of money, and out of friends. People will avoid him - trust me - so that he cannot drag them into this business.


Above everything else,


stop talking to him. You might have someone else listen to the voicemails before you do, and see if there is anything you NEED to know from them. Sort of like an intermediary for you.


But now, you have a lawyer. Let that person do the legal stuff, and just sit back.


You are doing fine.

Let your lawyer know all that is going on. Maybe she can download the voicemails for you...not sure if she can or not, but it never hurts to ask. If she says "no" then you are in the same place you were before you asked.

If he is taping the phonecalls, you should ask your lawyer if that is legal in your state. It isn't in mine. The person taping must let the other person know that they are doing it, and get that other person's permission. Might help.

Hang in there. You are doing a great job.

School bus, I do not know what I am feeling, but I know what I am feeling is completely wrong!

The first guy I ever slept with, Tim, turned out to be addicted to Oxi-Cotton. I didn't know this til after he and I broke up, but I remember how disgusted I was with him for the next six years because of his addiction to pain killers and getting high.

The reason I am feeling so strange right now is because I saw him tonight, and he has completely changed for the better. He doesn't smoke cigarettes, or drink, and he's so obviously actually clean from the pain killers. He's a completely different person and I found myself oddly attracted to him, even though I have spent the last six years being completely disgusted with him because I remember his actions in the past.

This oddly gave me hope for Jon, because if Tim can make me change my mind about him, than Jon can make me change my mind. And I have a daughter with Jon so our bond should be much stronger than the one I have with Tim.

My family has completely forbidden me from ever getting involved with Jon ever again, and I completely understand why and I'm pretty sure that both I and they are right.

Seeing Tim clean though and seeing his attitude towards life and his actions in general have made me question Jon's future actions. What am I feeling here? I've never been through this before and I am very inexperienced when it comes to relationships in general and break ups.

I will not by any means ever get involved with Tim again, despite my attraction to him. I love my daughter so much and she is my number one priority and my love for her trumps any physical attraction I would have for an ex boyfriend.

Just seeing him clean and having this attraction to him made me think about Jon though. I always vowed that I would never think of Tim that way again and that I was pretty much fed up with giving him chances to be in my life again. The fact that he has completely changed for the better makes me wonder what I am going to feel for Jon and the decisions I am going to force myself to make in the future if he ever does truelly get his act together. What do you think? Have you had these feelings before? I'm so confused right now and I feel like being attracted to my ex is a betrayal of myself.

No Longer Trapped

NLT,

What you are feeling is::::::

weak.


The process of breaking away from a terrible situation like you have been in has this cycle built in.

First, you have difficulty breaking away in the first place. The "reasons" are pretty much made up in your head, but serve the purpose of maintaining one thing:

what you know.


You were trapped in what you knew only because you had fear of the next step - the unknown - and what you might face or have to do in that unknown. That is what keeps people trapped! They don't want to break away from what they have become accustomed to, mainly because they fear that they will not have whatever it is that appears to give them "comfort" in the current situation. You had a level of comfort with Jon. There was a sort of "predictability" to your life, and although it was wrought with problems, it was what your life WAS - it had its sense of balance to you at times, and you worked within that situation because you reached a type of homeostasis with it. What I mean is, because it was predictable and "known", you became used to being in what was actually a very BAD situation.

It was your "normal".

Only, to the rest of the world, it really isn't normal.


The next phase of the cycle is the rise of the drama and conflict within the relationship. The two of you fought, and the fights were terrible. Or you two had conflict, and there was lots of emotion within that conflict.

The next phase was "making up", at which point you sought to re-establish that balance, and you would add in this dash of hope that things would improve.

The cycle was repeated, over and over, within your relationship:

the hope cycle, where you felt like things were going to get better, or would be great from that point forward

the balance cycle, where things were relatively calm and the two of you were doing okay

and then the conflict cycle, where things bubbled to the surface and you two were in open battle over something

then back to hope.




Right now, because the conflict cycle is beginning to settle, you are looking at the relationship once again, from the hope position.


The problem is that you MUST stop the cycle, and recognize it for what it is.


You are writing your ticket based on what you HOPE could happen. The reality is that the relationship is NOT WORTHY of your work.

PERIOD.


While the very nice thing for Tom is that he appears to have recovered,

you really need to take a different piece of information from your meeting with Tom.

You have chosen to take the information that "if Tom can do it, so can Jon".

You are wrong on this.


The piece of information I garnered???????? And so should you:


"In Trapped's history, she appears to have chosen men who have substance abuse issues. Trapped needs to do a great deal of work and figure out why she chooses men who have this tendency, and why she can operate within a relationship and not know the truth about her partner (including substance abuse for Tom, and the deep emotional problems Jon has). Trapped's message in this should be one that points her in the direction of evaluating how she gets into relationships, how quickly, how well she knows a man before she chooses him, how she must review whether or not she is doing the choosing or letting others just choose her, and finding out about what she truly desires in a man before she enters her next relationship.

Additionally, Trapped also needs to find her strength, because she is weak at this point, looking back at a relationship that did not go well and hoping it would somehow magically change into what she WANTS it to be, instead of looking at the reality of the situation."


That's what I take away from your meeting with Tom. You are still looking at this relationship with Jon through hopeful glasses.


There is no hope unless the addict chooses to address his addiction. Jon blames others, and obviously has drug issues right now. You are not in control of that. HE IS. For you, your focus should be on you and your child, because Jon has one focus in his life - himself.


He is not your dream man, nor your soulmate.


The relationship you had with him was not based on solid foundation, and you cannot go back and fix him.


Fix yourself.


You have a future. But you need to take this time in your life to focus on your personal growth - and the relationship with Jon is in direct conflict with your growth. Abandon it, because it will NEVER be worthy of the new you. NEVER.


SB

Ask yourself this question:


"What would I do in a relationship with a man who was capable of and fully willing to love me without the drama I have had in previous relationships?"

Because part of what anchors you and keeps you hung up in the past is that you "know" drama.

What would you do if you had a relationship built on:

Openness and Honesty

Meeting the emotional needs of each other

Policy of Joint Agreement in place and utilized daily

Boundaries for the prevention of intrusions by others into the relationship

A well-stocked Love Bank

A balance of Giving and Taking

An understanding of how not to commit Lovebusters and Disrespectful Judgements




What would your life be like then?


Could you thrive without all of the negative drama?

Or are you somehow addicted to the relationship because it FEEDS this drama and you find it somehow fulfilling?


Consider your life with a real man, who meets your needs, respects you, loves you, and does not need you to guide him through his daily life.



A man who stands on his own two feet, and does not need the assistance or crutch of drugs............but instead is able to live life to the fullest without them?


A man who is not emotionally broken........




Now, focus your life on making yourself worthy of a man, and a relationship, that meets the true "dream" relationship criteria.



Jon is not in that formula, Trapped.


He. Never. Was.



SB

Thankyou it was really good to hear from you. Once upon a time, I had met such a man that didn't have substance abuse problems, he treated me with respect, we got along great, and I loved him fiercely. We were the best of friends, and as of lately we've become pretty good friends again. I remember when Jon and I were always having our problems, I would always think of this man that treated me like a queen, and how Jon was so obviously nothing like him. I never truelly got over this man, and I think that is because I was in this terrible relationship with Jon.

The good news is that Jon has finally settled and has agreed to sign the papers for standard visitations.

I'm sad because the support system I thought I had, is kind of leaving. My best friend moved to Houston a year ago, and now she is moving to Colorado for a new job. My other friend moved to Vegas and then to Kansas, and she's making plans to move back to Texas, so we'll see how that works out. I am definately looking forward to her being here. My third friend is a very good influence on me, and she's very good company to keep, but she too moved away about an hour and a half from here, and with our schedules being as busy as they are, its rare that we find time to see each other, although it seems like we are avidly trying. And than my 4th friend who I love dearly...I have unfortunately out grown her. When I met Jon, I was going to the bar like five days a week with this friend. I became Jennifer's mother and my bar life came to a halt. I went from drinking five nights a week to once a month. I stopped wanting to go to the bar pretty much all together. The problem is that my friend has not grown out of this phase, so as much as I would love to enjoy her company, I really no longer can because the bar has become and still is her place of refuge.

Its sad what happened to her, because she and I have almost been kindred spirits up til three days before Katie was born. She too found out she was pregnant a few months after I found out. We gabbed and gossiped and speculated over what a great future our two little girls were going to have together. Her daughter was born three days earlier than Katie, with a condition called HIE. Its when the infant is deprived of oxygen too long and their was permanent brain damage. Although her organs regained function, her brain did not and she would remain a vegitable for the rest of her life, so her parents took her off life support 9 days later and her baby girl died. As of that day, our lives took completely different paths. Although I love her dearly, I do not want to share this life with her as long as the only place I can enjoy her company at is in a bar. Its simply not my life style anymore.

So thats my support that I was counting on. My parents are great though, they're here for me no matter what. My family is here for me too.

I've recently started volunteering at United Way and the animal shelter, so I'm hoping to make new connections with friends while I am volunteering. I plan on having a job real soon, I get my degree in a week, so I'll probably be able to meet good people through work as well.

I still have no desire to meet a man, that boat has sailed for quite some time.

Its good talking to you, thankyou for being here for me.

No Longer Trapped

NLT,


It sounds like you are looking to the future


without Jon

and this is a good thing for you and your daughter.


What you need to be careful of is that he will try to convince you of his changes. He will lie. Any changes he makes (if he even does) will be purely temporary, in order to prove something to you or others. Be careful, because addicts have a way of being charming and sucking you back into their lives....and then they suck the strength right out of you.


You are looking forward to a life that does not contain abuse - from others, or to yourself. Look at it this way: what you do to yourself you do to your daughter, good or bad. When you do something, ask yourself, "would I share this experience with my daughter"...................."would I do this if she were ten years old watching me"......................."would my daughter or parents be proud of me right now".

For now, in your life, you need two perspectives - the new perspective you are developing for yourself, and an EXTERNAL perspective. This means you need to learn to judge what you are doing against your internal measure of right and wrong, and then compare it to what OTHER PEOPLE you know to be good and strong might judge it to be.


You've been in a very strange place with Jon.

You are returning to the land of the normal, and FWIW it might seem strange here to you. You will have urges to return to the strange life

don't do it

because every day that you put between yourself and that past life makes you that much stronger, that much better.




I know this.


I have lived it.



Live each day like it is a breath of air you cannot let escape from you, and look at the past as poisoned air. Don't breathe anything from "back then". Only clean air.


SB

So Jon's been off the methadone for two weeks now. He's quit drinking alcohol, he's stopped smoking pot. He's started counseling and he's been taking anti-depressants for over a month now. I am very proud of him. Hopefully he will get his freaking license back! It doesn't matter, our relationship is over, but I would be so thrilled for him if he could get his license back. He hasn't had it in over seven years.

I have finally got a wonderful job. I really hope I get to keep it. Right now its only a 30 day temp job, but the pay is better than I could ever imagine after reentering the work force. I've been doing criminal back ground checks. Which is interesting, especially when we have to "fail" people for minor details such as traffic violations. It makes me think of Jon and all the times he's gotten into trouble, and what his criminal background must look like. Whats sad is these people only get paid 8 dollars an hour. I feel for them.

Jon has left Jennifer in my care until at least the summer. He had a new girlfriend for a while, she's actually quite pretty. He's breaking up with her because he realized that he doesn't like her like that or that he's in love with her. She's head over heals for him, she even offered to let him move in with her and that she even had a room for Jenny. Which is also odd cause at first he told me that she didn't want children. They must have had some life altering sex or she is very naive for only dating a guy for a couple of weeks and then telling him that he can move in with her.

I don't know if I mentioned in any of my earlier posts, but my leaving Jon started a chain reaction. His sister divorced her husband shortly after I left Jon. And then Jon's step father was so angry that Jon was living there, that Jon's mother is filing for a divorce now.

The two tv's that Jon took when he finally moved out of the house, Terri ended up stealing out of retaliation! I almost laughed, but I want Jon to be happy, not miserable. Those men are so stupid too. Jon banged his head repeatedly into a table to make it look like his step dad attacked him. Than Terri personally inflicted a scratch on his neck and face to make it look like Jon hit him. Than when the cops got there, the cops wouldn't take either one of them to jail because they were both fighting. LOL. I think its hilarious, they might as well have actually duked it out instead of taking it out on the furniture. Boys will be boys I guess.

Shortly after Jon met this new girl, he started saying the most horrible things about how he didn't want to be Katie's father any more and that he wanted to be free. He started making remarks and insults about my personal hygeine while I was pregnant and how I was so disgusting that he had every right to not have sex with me. He also told me that he had to do heroin and drugs on a daily basis to make himself love me because he didn't really like me from the beginning.

Oh, and the next morning, he called and acted like we were best friends and that he never said any thing like that and he just expected me to be a total sweet heart again. NUT CASE! Now he's apologized over and over and over again for all the things he said to me that he insists were not true, and were only said to hurt me.

I would say it would be easier to just not talk to him. But having children with each other obviously changes things. I feel like both he and my family are manipulating me in every way possible and I'm so sick of it.

I really hope I get to keep this job. I think my life long decisions will genuinely be my own when I can be independent and I don't have to rely on my parents to still support me. I'm really depressed right now cause I have a child of my own and I have to live with my parents to take care of her still. If this job works out that will not be the case though and I can start putting about 1000 a month away in savings while handling the rest of my bills and paying my parents rent for living here.

Wish me luck!

TIL, just curious, but how old are you?

So is your custody dispute over? How did that go? Standard visitation? Child support?