While alot of ws would say something just randomly happened, which made them fall onto the ow/om and wham an ema started,and they may have themselves innocently started contact with the op, there in many occasions is something that exists in our society that needs to be dealt with and harshly. That would be a predator ow/om.

My former m fell victim to two of them. I never would have believed it would happen in a million years but it did. And while I have learned in retrospect how and why my xh was vulernable to having had an ema (young child who had been premature along with large ego), the ow in our case, both set their sights on certain types of men.
She loooked for the weak spots in my xh, and centered on it. She was a friend of a friend of a friend and he met her out at a sports bar btw. On a "guy's night" out watching a simple football game. But this first ow was no ordinary one. She was a pro. She had broken up a few marriages before and was on the hunt for a man who was attractive and had $. And she did unthinkable things to set a trap for him, even took my H after he and I had a false reconcilation (some might remember this) to a song of solomon conference at a local church, where he was spotted by members of our sunday school class. There was no low low enough for her to sink, as she was at war with my family.

My ex is no innocent flower though as he went along with it. But seriously there has to be a way to deal with the "no shame" type of op out there and I think there needs to be a good discussion on this topic to help others out there waging war for their families, fighting the good fight.

In the end, she was served with a subpoena courtesy of me, and I had her name placed in the divorce decree as why I was filing for divorce. I didn't play nice in the end with her, and she had to move onto more green$ pastures. She did. Married another guy who was old and rich and broke that marriage up.

So how to stop the predator? They're out there. They want something, have no shame, and they don't care if kids are involved, feelings are hurt, and families fall. When you have one of these you're against there needs to be a special kind of offense.

So..what is the best offense against one of these? And yes, there are predatory OM out there also. I know in my geographical area, there are tons of them. Left and right. And I am seeing right now somebody nearby I know having to deal with one similar to what I went thru. However this time I want them to have the best chances (and also advised them to come here too btw).

There has to be a great way to adapt a plan A/B when you are dealing with one of them.

My first thought is that Plan B should be expected to run the full two years, and maybe at least think about extending it to 3. I think the A itself will still respond the same way, but perhaps because of the extraordinary efforts of the OP, it may be a slower process.

Just a guess...

I've had to deal with a predatory OM who stopped at nothing to get what he wanted. In my case, OM was 50, had no car, no home, no money, etc. But, he knew a lot about horses. His MO was to befriend a family with a horse farm, take care of the horses, then move in on the wife. He had done this a few times before us.

Anyways, he is the definition of a predator - my exWW is his 2nd cousin too. He thought nothing of destroying our family. At this point, exWW barely has a relationship with members of her family.

With him, he had nothing to lose - if exWW resisted his advances and told him to bug off, he didn't lose anything. It is absolutly mind boggling that a SAHM would leave her marriage for someone who hasn't had a real job in 10 years. The guy is good...

Yeah, but. At the end of the day, the WW has to say 'yay' or 'nay', right? The WW evidently didn't consider them "predatory" - a term that is a little creepy/scary.

ITA, they may be predatory - but the WW didn't say nay either.

I firmly believe the OW in my sitch is a predator.

Here a definition from the book "Why Good People Do Bad Things" by Debbie Ford: "Predator types step over boundaries, seek control, and take what isn't theirs. They are forceful, aggressive, calculating, and manipulating and are looking out for their best interest at all times -- even if they appear to be looking out for the interest of others. Predator types hardly take an action unless there is some payoff for themselves. They strive to get ahead, fulfill their needs, and 'get theirs' regardless of who gets hurt in the process."

While the key term above is "manipulating," I'd add the word "opportunist" to better describe OP. If they've been in this type of situation before, they know what to do, how to do it, when to do it, and who to do it with. They seem to know just what to say/do to fulfill a "void" in the wayward's life -- a "void" that often the wayward didn't know existed until the OP kindly pointed it out.

I also think the unattached OP acts more predatory than the attached OP. Maybe because they have less to lose.

You know, I have kind of waffled back and forth on this.

The predator OP is definitely a contributing factor.

However, it is just part of an equation. x + y + z = A.

Unmet emotional needs + weak boundaries + predatory OP = A.

Each part of that equation has it's own equation as well.

The OM in my sitch fits the predator type to a T. To see why, one has to look at what my exWW did - she grew up in a horse family, was a horse trainer, and we lived on a horse farm. Me? I paid for the horses and was allergic to them. I always liked to help out but all the direction came from exWW.

Enter POSOM. He is a "horseman". He knows more about horses than I do. Plus, he's her second cousin - no reason for PSUBIKER to put his antenae up. He started manipulating her very early (at least a year before d-day) - he had a litter of Jack Russel pups and we were going to get one for the kids since the cat just died. Going home after picking up the pup, ExWW mentioned that POSOM said I wouldn't let her get the puppy for the kids.

Three months later on New Year's Eve, POSOM knew exWW and I were supposed to go out. So, just as we were getting ready to leave, he called exWW and said that one of the horses the exWW and was at POSOM's place was colicing. So, of course exWW goes over, calls the vet, etc and we don't go out.

When POSOM moved to our farm, he watched what I did when I got home from work. So, POSOM did my chores while I was at work so I didn't have much to do. When I was sitting around surfing the net and watching TV, POSOM would whisper in exWW's ear that I was a lazy you know what. By this point, it was a full blown emotional affair and POSOM would say anything to exWW to make me look bad.

So yes, he manipulated the situation to fit his needs. But, exWW shares much of the blame for falling for the fantasy that she and POSOM can be some sort of "horse couple". Plus, she is the one who didn't see the situation for what it was - someone using her and I for their own gain.

This defines ALL OP...they are all "predatory" according to this definition and I would agree with that. Some just take their predatorship (is that a word?) to a deeper level.

But in order to *be* an OP you must adhere to the above definition,no?

I like the way you put this in an equation. My FIL math professor would be proud of you.

In looking at the equation, I agree that the first two elements have to be there. The third -- predatory OP -- can probably be substitued with anything else depending on what a wayward needs to cross the line.

But the predatory OP is scary stuff. They MANIPULATE themselves into the equation to MAKE the A happen.

Do you really think it is weak boundaries when they are in their 50's? If weak boundaries could equate with "they never saw it coming". I really think my FWH had no intention, and didn't really have weak boundaries. But he DID disrespect me in talking to the predator. They were just going to be friends. He knew I couldn't stand her because of the flyby by she did over 30 yrs ago. I told her off then so he just KNEW I wouldn't accept their friendship! Now that I have said that, it would seem he just flat out had intent, just went bad for him once I found him out. But lordy ya'll, if you have seen Mrs Mucous on the commercial....nuff said. GF

Following DDay1 (related to FWHs EA), we talked and talked about how the EA affair had progressed and it was amazing how the scales fell from his eyes about how he had be played by this predatory woman.

FWH knows completely that he was culpable in being available for manipulation by her - nothing about their relationship was acceptable and he knew it but he didn't realise until he looked at it from a distance just how much she had played him.

The first time they met was in a crowd of work-related colleagues. My husband had never gone out with this crowd before but he was invited again a month later. (I suspect the second drinks was at her instigation, and so does FWH now) At the second drinks, she tells him she has another friend from their country who it would be great to meet up with.

When FWH turns up for this "quick drink", the other friend has 'just left' but obviously FWH suggests they still stay and have a drink...

Roll on a few months of meeting for drinks or meals due to their common interest of home country (plus of course, her filling his emotional needs for admiration etc) and she makes a pass at him, asking him back to her place. He turned her down and left in embarassment, not planning on contacing her again.

But OW has no such embarassment. She contacts him a month later, tells him she's cool with just being friends and they go out another couple of times for a drink. But then she started changing the tone of their relationship.

From a relationship which does not involve any emotional talk, she starts confiding in him about her problems with her brother and his wife. I read texts where she drooled over FWH after meeting him about how wonderfully understanding and wise he was and what great advice he gave...

This change of tack very nearly worked and fortunately this was when I found out.

Please understand I am not absolving FWH for his responsibility in this, but boy did he feel stupid when he looked at the history of their relationship like this.

BTW I am working very hard on forgiving everyone involved in the mess our marriage was, so that I can move on without bitterness but I was a little naughty to this OW last week. FWH got a linkedin message from one of the guys who was at the initial drinks last year. He's changed jobs, moved nearer to us and wanted FWHs details to get in contact re business, though he also suggested that they get together with OW 'for a blast'.

I have full access to FWHs linkedin account and with his agreement we wrote back with his contact details and the response that this guy was on his own with OW as his wife (me) was 'understandably not pleased with OWs views of what friendship comprised'......

I have recently started going out and making new freinds and meeting new people in my community.
I am mid 40's and am meeting people (mostly the same age) with common talents (painting and art).

I mean, these are educated, career women who appear well adjusted. The give to charity and seem to have the world by the tail.

I am shocked at how many women I have met (divorced/single) who openly and desperately pine for a man, any (I mean any) man. Married, "living - partner" or single or the town man-sleaze. I don't even want to bring my H around them.

To tell the truth, it kind of makes me really afraid of divorce, and more motivated than ever about fixing my M. I do not want to end up like one of them.
Maybe I am stupid, but I believed in a "code" of behavior, (you don't go out with a guy who is seriously dating another, and you do not even think about a married man.")

Actually, your professor might backhand me.

That equation makes it real black and white, like an absolute. That exists with arithmetic. This is more algebraic.

So... if you could put it into a formula it would be more like

(the number of unmet emotional needs x length of time they haven't been met)/(boundaries of the spouse x resources to facilitate a secret life) x (presence of OP x persistence of OP) = length and severity of A.

Whew...

Can't argue hard either way though. FWW was responsible to protect our marriage, but part of what happened was because OM pushed as hard as he could, stepped over every boundary he could, and just kept going.

Was he a predator? Yes. However, FWW wasn't the vegetative prey of a rabid vegetarian techno musician. She is mammalian, and could have avoided the predator, and chose not to.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit as well. Both of the affairs my WW had were with guys we considered friends. Ones that we were comfortable around. Ones I was comfortable with my wife talking to and being around. Both guys had reputations as "players" but I never once thought they would pull that with us. After all, we were friends. In the end WW got pulled into their respective webs. They told her what she wanted to hear and gave her the attention she so desperately craved. But once they got what they wanted they had no more use for her. She was played, manipulated and used. She definitely carries a huge share of the blame in both cases though because she wasn't forced to go along with their desires. She chose to do that and she will pay for it for a long time. But predatory OP's can definitely change your world forever.

I'm getting dizzy.

I agree with the predator definition by Debbie Ford 100 percent. And yes, there is a new breed of bold, unashamed, calculated, op out there right now. Sadly, what I see is many of them are women, but a few men are out there like that.

It's absolutely crazy. I have a friend dealing with a predator op in their M, and the op is just like the definition.

I know in my case, the predator ow did just like the definition, but poked around until she found a vulernable area in my xh. His was ego. He needed it 24-7. And hero worship. She provided that while I was at home working and taking care of a child who had been sick and had asthma due to being born premature.

Today when you enter your 30's and up, sadly in my area, there are tons of women who are seriously the predatory types. A few men, yes, but mostly imho women. As a single woman after my divorce, I certainly wasn't them, but do know that in order to even be a single woman these days, I had to step things up in my life with regard to appearance, taking care of myself, etc.

Even with my DH, early in our dating relationship, a former girlfriend from before he had married his former w, tried to hit on him and get him to cheat with her. She also approached him under the guise of friendship and tried to seem innocent and sweet at first.

As for me, I've had personally two calls from somebody I had dated during my single days who had somehow found out I'd gotten married and actually asked me if I was happy and was this what I wanted and asked me to meet him to talk. (insert barfing icon here). I promptly told him he would be blocked from ever calling me again, and that I am 100 percent happy and faithful.

They are seriously everywhere. But my DH and I are MB saavy, and know how to keep our R strong, plus I learned from my previous experience.

However, what needs to be discussed is a strategy to deal with these types. They are shameless. And in my case a good plan A and B didn't do a thing to stop this type of op.

The manipulation these op predators use is serious. As in the case of my xh, she even tried after he ended w/her telling her he wanted to go home, to get right with God, she pretended to be his friend only and said she would support his healing his family and even went to a church sponsored event for families (yea, with the ow). That is ultimate manipulation.

I hope there can be new approaches to dealing with these types. I see a friends' marriage right now struggling so hard and it's because of one of these types and it is sad. I even know how my DH and I were approached by outsiders too by similar types, but thankfully we're both rather fireproof after going thru what we did before meeting each other.

Exposure doesn't work on these types very much. When shame is not a factor, what do you do? I felt like Pollyanna compared to what this ow did in the past to my M. And those who know me know I am not one to be easily dismissed. I'm no pushover and not a quitter.

So there needs to be a way to deal with these types once and for all. Your thoughts on how to deal with them?

I think we're forgetting the WH/WW part of the equation here. He/she isn't a predator (normally) and he/she, more than likely, does respond to exposure. POW or POM (predatory other woman or predatory other man) may let it roll off their back but WH/WW won't be able to. It will STILL cause pressure in A-land. Plan A and Plan B WILL still work on a WH/WW even if they ARE involved with a POW/POM. They're not weaklings or under his/her "power". They are men and women who have chosen to ignore their own moral code. When they come out of the fog, it may be harder to cut off contact with a POW/POM but it can be done if WH/WW wants it bad enough.

I love the equation!

I don't know about a specific strategy to deal with predatory people but a understanding of emotional needs certainly helps. Once my husband saw how OW had been filling increasing numbers of ENs, he could see how she worked. He feels such a fool now and was just saying this morning how he is less naive now when meeting people.

I have been teaching my kids about ENs and they are really getting it

Sorry to post again immediately, but it just occurred to me - should we worry that society seems to have increasing numbers of predatory, selfish, self-centred people?

How do we protect our children?