I agree with schtoop. If she does this often, that itself tells something. She will not be the kind who enjoys exclusive time with you.

Green Gables,
As I said in another thread, my best GF just had a stroke and has changed, is reclusive now...my other GF is moving away this week. I'm pretty much alone. I'll probably have the kids up on Christmas and Thanksgiving, but I don't know what I'll do Christmas break. I have a big unruly dog that prevents me from going anywhere. Guess I'll stay home and make cards, it's what I like to do and don't have much time for anymore. I don't mind being alone, I just get tired of being alone all the time, there's a difference!

And I agree, if someone is staying at the bars until 4:00 in the morning, they aren't acting as if they're in a relationship

I think a lot of my problem in ending this relationship is the fact that she was there and available for me at a very tough time.
Looking at myself and being honest I have to say that I used this relationship as a shield against the real issue�. the pain, and fear and every other emotion that I have felt over the course of the last year.
I know how it�s going to seem to her when I drive the nail in the coffin, but it wasn�t my intention to hurt her.
In my own defense however, I wouldn�t want to be with someone with control issues�.even if I wasn�t going through a divorce/recovery.

And as a side note�. Isn�t it funny when she is around a bunch of guys, well, they are just friends� part of the gang!? But when I�m around a group that may or may not include single females, I have to answer 50 questions!?

Yup, it's so typical. My gf's XH cheated on her, he was sleeping with HER friend when she was away taking care of her sick mother. Then she filed for a divorce. Then when she was sleeping with XH's friend (ok, that wasn't really a best course of action, I agree, but still...), he got mad. My XH did the similar thing....

Oh, I would definitely continue to go to the events you enjoyed together! Yes, there may be some sadness that the relationship is gone, but on the other hand you have happy memories too and you will really able to enjoy the events without the stress of a bad relationship this time. You will see and enjoy more than you ever have before, you'll be happy and wear a smile on your face, and you never know, there may be a single woman there that's right for you! Nothing is sexier and more attractive than a happy, confident, single man. Happy Holidays!

Unless it's a happy, confident, single woman! LOL

I had �the talk� with my long distance girlfriend a few nights ago. Of course I got the blame for everything, which I expected. I even got blamed for the fact that she worked less than two days at her last job before walking out, I thought that was hilarious. I expected all this, but I still marvel at how some people can turn any situation around to make themselves into victims.
Her explanation as to me being responsible for her employment woes was: She took the job to buy airfare for me to come visit on Thanksgiving, when I started acting like I was loosing interest she said to heck with it (her job). Good grief.
I am also responsible for the recession and global warming!
What�s amazing is she called me last night just like nothing ever happened! �Hi, how was your day?� Just as bubbly and cheerful as if nothing was ever said. I was really at a loss as to how to react to her joyfulness. I just excused myself and went to bed. I expect her to call me today to tell me about the wedding dress she picked out or to discuss names for our children.
I was hoping to deal with this as thoughtfully and gently as possible, I don�t think she is going to let me.

Lol, sorry, I shouldn't laugh but this was good. I mean, how clear were you with her?

Travis

Thanks for the laugh TTF!

I thought I was pretty clear. We talked about all the obstacles that stood in our way. I told her I had so much on my plate financially, (trying to weather the debt storm caused by divorce), that it would be impossible for me to commit to her at this point. I wanted to get my feet under me and not worry about making someone else happy, it�s a selfish attitude I know.
I tried to avoid bringing faults into the discussion; (her overbearing, psycho, Glenn Close attitude). I don�t see any reason to kick her while she is down. Maybe I tried to let her down to easy, I don�t know. We will see how it goes tonight.

It sounds like she was reacting with emotion, defensive, which is an immature way to handle it. The mature way would be to listen and see if you maybe had something worth listening to or anything she could learn. Sometimes women react with emotion and then later on think better of it and consider the things that were said.

Boundaries TTF. Remember you can "hurt" her and not "harm" her. Big difference. In the end it's about protecting yourself from harm.

Can you imagine a LTR with this one? One day a big blame fest and then the next like nothing ever happened?
Not for me.

Opt

This is so true. Not to excuse any of these immature actions, but let's say women tend to get emotional more easily than men. She might have reacted emotionally and the next day felt guilty about her behavior? Possible.

To me, though, her going out to bars (till 4am!) frequently and also cursing you for not answering your phone when it was a NORMAL time for NORMAL people to be in bed...that's more a red flag, than her emotional reaction.

You don't happen to have some Prozac you could slip her to see if she levels out, do you? LOL Just kidding!

Prozac is a good suggestion, I�m leaning more towards Potassium Cyanide!!!
Just kidding!!

Food for thought. I�m a little guarded now� but when does it stop being natural, self preservation and when does it start becoming selfish, and self-centered?
I�m having trouble discerning an imaginary line, if there is one. I don�t want to become so callus and guarded that I can�t ever �feel� again. At the same time I don�t care to have my heart ripped from my chest ever again.
Thoughts?

TTF...I hope you don't mind my .02 coming out of left field. When I think of divorce, I think of it as a deep injury or a death - from which people need to allow themselves time to rehabilitate, introspect, and rest.

I don't see a year or two of strictly platonic socializing (even in just group settings) as being a selfish or self centered choice at all. I see it, instead, as a wise choice because you are not cutting yourself off from women totally, so you are not going into any sort of exile, but you are allowing yourself time and opportunity to heal and think about your part in what led up to the divorce so that in a subsequent relationship, any errors you may have made (if that's the case) will hopefully not be repeated.

Also...too often we ignore our instincts. There's a reason why you feel cautious right now. Don't fight that. Don't question it. Go with the flow and explore that feeling...Why do I feel cautious...

Well...your wife broke your heart and the OMW ended up being too controlling - naturally you're asking yourself now...just who can I trust?

Well...certainly no one who is not in a healthy place, emotionally, including yourself.

Sometimes I think when a person has been betrayed they feel this drive to reassure themselves that they are still attractive and desirable. Could be. That, of course, can lead to a knee jerk relationships that sputter out.

As far as the girlfriend goes...ex girlfriend I would say...

If she calls again, I would say something like:

"Sandra, I've thought about this long and hard. I think it's way too early for me to be involved with anyone, and we're both recovering. I'm also not feeling the right chemistry that would do you justice. You deserve someone who will treat you right."

Thanks Soolee, I appreciate your .02!

Good advice except I think I'd skip the part about the chemistry. It's best to state things in a positive rather than negative way. Leave it with "You deserve to have someone who can do you justice!" if you mention chemistry it implies no attraction which could leave her feeling "less than" when it's really not about that at all.