Naw, you didn't miss anything. Women who cat around like an alley cat in heat don't treasure those memories; they deeply REGRET them. I don't know any woman who fondly remembered acting like a skank. Those are BAD MEMORIES, not good ones. Good sex comes from a passionate, romantic, emotionally attached relationship with a committed loving man; NOT from dropping your drawers with the first loser that comes along.

Great sex only comes from a great relationship; anything else is nothing more than barnyard sex. Nothing attractive or memorable about 2 jackrabbits getting it on.

All you missed was a passel of shameful memories and lots of regret.

Jealousy, I think women need to think this through more carefully. Attention is sure nice, but when a man who knows you are married gives you attention, it is not flattery, but a grave insult. That kind of attention is NOT: I think you are attractive, but rather: I THINK YOU ARE A CHEAP HO.

Married women need to understand the difference.

This kind of attention is a bad man using a woman's weaknesses to get free sex.
NOT flattering at all.
Not even a little.
He thinks very little of her.
There is no respect involved, what-so-ever.

... and I will treat you as such the first opportunity that you give me, with no regard to the damage it does to your life and family.

Yeah.

When FWW told OM that it had to stop because she "wanted to work on her marriage" he replied "I'm happy for you."

Awwww, isn't that sweet?

Though, he had already slept with her at will. Of course he didn't care, the conquest was over. And she thought: "Oh, what a good friend, he'll stop banging me so I can try to be happy with my husband, who I completely lied to and betrayed."


Those OMs who push the boundaries of married women... great guys!


You stand on the edge of a cliff, looking at the water far below. The wind whispers to you of the excitement; "What would it be like to kiss him? To be held by him? To make love to him? He LOOKS at me! He TALKS to me! He THINKS I'M INTERESTING!!!!"

The leap before you is long and thrilling - the anticipation drives you crazy. But the water below is dark and murky. You can't see what is beneath the surface.

Pain. Regret. Betrayal. Depression. Rage. Self-hate. Anger.

Once you jump, there is no path back to where you are standing. If you jump, you will never be here again. When you do return to safety, you will be broken and scarred, and it will take years of your life to recover from the leap. And all you will be able to do, is look at the spot from which you leaped, and ask "Why?" The answer will not be the OM, will not be your H, but will only be YOU.

And then, you do not get to choose your path to recovery, you do not get to choose how you drag yourself out of the water, broken and bleeding. When you leaped from the ledge, it collapsed behind you, taking with you all those who stood around you, your spouse, your children. They had no choice to fall, they did not get to choose to be in this pain.

No. Their reality was shattered for you to chase that thrill. And NOW they have the right to choose if you are any longer a part of their lives, as you drag yourself ashore, begging for forgiveness. Your leap was proof that you will put yourself before them.

Mother. Wife. She who will protect my life and heart. Not so when you recklessly abandon them for the attention of some random man - who of himself is not significant or important - but simply because you are too selfish and lazy to fight for your own family.

This is a great post from a long time ago that I offer for your review. This was written by a betrayed spouse and is a great guide for you to reference since you feel you need to find yourself (know yourself). Here you go:

"We need to be apart so I can find myself" What a cute little euphamism that is, finding yourself or finding out who you are.

Many of my dear friends here no that I am a big believer in using a gentle touch on those unfortunate souls who either "Need to find themselves" or "Need to find out who they are" before they can come home to their families.

So, as a public service to these unfortunate souls I have composed "Finding yourself for Dummies"

First, finding yourself...
1. If you can't find yourself, try looking in your shoes. More than likely you will be there.

2. Do not bother looking where your children or responsibilities are, though that would be a reasonable place to look we know you are not there.

3. If need be, go to the police station and give the desk sargeant an 8x10 or you and ask to have an APB put out since you can't find yourself.

4. Ask your child to point to their mom/dad, if you are not sure which one you are reach into your pants and feel around, if there is a penis there, you are dad, if not, you're probably mom.

Now one of these tried and true methods ought to help you find yourself, but it probable dark so let's help you see better. Reach behind you, palms facing you, arms hanging down and grab. That's your butt. Now reach in that and look for a large round object, that is your head. Now, with both hands pull as hard as you can. You are now performing recto-cranial extraction.

Ok, now you have found yourself. We are making progress here! Now we need to find out "who you are". This is not so hard. Look around the house - if there are one or more particularly short little people ask one of them, they are called children, they probably know the answer as it was one of their first two or 3 words. Not able to talk yet? No sweat.

Look for the full grown person with the red eyes who looks like they haven't slept in a while - they probably know. They aren't home??? let's keep looking.

Try looking in a desk or filing cabinet. Look for folders named "mortgage", "Utilities", Or "Marriage license". There will probably be two names here - you are one of those. So we have found you and narrowed it down to two people.

Now look and see if there is a wallet around. Remember that? Little pocket sized leather folding thingy. Look for something that says drivers license. There should be a name. Now find a mirror (Glass thingy in the bathroom), look at the picture on the driver's license and the face in the mirror, if they match, the name on the license is WHO YOU ARE. If they don't, check those papers you found - you are the other name.

Now that you have found yourself and know who you are go find the other full grown person in the house and introduce yourself. Start out with "I'm sorry I could not find myself or figure out who I was, I know now"

Next, knock off the drama, quit being melodramatic and start being mom/dad, husband/wife like you are supposed to and quit with the childish theatrics because the final piece is WHERE YOU ARE. This is called the real world where people depend on you to act like a grownup and keep track of details like who and where you are. The little people in the house are kinda sorta counting on you too.

If this doesn't work and you have to take a journey to answer these questions there is a chance that when you find yourself you will be alone, without a house, without a spouse, without children who love you and without a penny. That is how my XW found herself a year later. Trust me, my plan outlined earlier is better.

Ahhhhhhhhh.... okay, I needed to get that out since the day my XW took off into the sunset and another post yanked that rant out of me. If your WS tells you that they need time away to find themselves and discover who they are print it out for them. If they can't follow the directions make sure the door doesn't hit them in the rear and injure their head. There is a reason I harp on not putting up with crap from WS's who like to play little selfish games - if you indulge them they keep playing them.

I'm better now. Thanks for letting me take a good long vent... maybe I am finally getting my old, dead, buried, BS issues from the days before I met J out of my system.

pengy,

You speak of self-esteem as if it comes from some external source.


They call it SELF-esteem for a reason. It is INTERNALLY generated.

You cannot get self-esteem by dropping your panties for a co-worker in the stockroom. Pretty much, that will do the exact opposite of building self-esteem.



Self-esteem is created by understanding what is right and good about your SELF. It is generated by ACTIONS that are POSITIVE in nature.

I'm pretty sure that having an affair isn't positive in nature. Opposite again!

Self-esteem can be created by recognizing a genuine neediness in those less fortunate than you, and filling that need. Self-esteem can be increased by seeing a societal need such as a charitable organization, school, nursing home, child's organization, or other cause that needs support and giving your talents to aid in advancement of that cause.

I'm pretty sure that some OM's horn-dog needs are not included in that description. Opposite!!!!


Self-esteem rises when a person sets a worthy goal and achieves it. A worthy goal might include getting a college degree, completing a technical course for work or self-interest, achieving a personal challenge such as running a marathon, or other such goals.

I could be wrong, but getting into a co-worker's bed doesn't really meet the definition of "worthy goal". More like "UNWORTHY".


Self-esteem rises each time a person accomplishes a goal, completes a good deed for another person, does the right thing even in the face of difficulty, and stays the course when obstacles to their own high expectations are thrown in their way.

Despite obstacles, people with good self-esteem figure out ways to make GOOD things happen, they make decisions that are moral and right for those in their lives, and they strive to improve the quality of the lives of those in their families and their communities, and for themselves.

Oddly enough, people with POOR self-esteem can actually ACHIEVE GOOD SELF-ESTEEM by.....figuring out ways to make GOOD things happen, making decisions that are moral and right for those in their lives, and striving to improve the quality of the lives of those in their families and their communities, and for themselves.



Do you see "having an affair" anywhere in there? Just explain to me how committing an atrocity against another human being could POSSIBLY


increase


anyone's self-esteem.



Answer: It CANNOT. It is the antithesis to self-esteem.



SB

Oh, I wanted to answer your thread question: Why Can't I Stop Myself????



You can.

You choose not to.

It's kind of like the kid who has to keep making that noise just one more time, even after you have told him to stop a hundred times.

He makes the noise one more time because it just feels good, and because

HE CAN.


He only stops when the consequences are dire enough, or the game stops being fun.

He CHOOSES to stop.




The choice is yours. You control every. single. thing. you. do.


Surprise.


And it has NOTHING to do with your husband whatsoever.

This is 100%


you.

And your choice.



Go into this knowing that. So when, or if, you go ahead and make this huge mistake


you have nothing left but to OWN IT.


Trust me, if you go ahead into the affair


you will be scrambling to blame your husband. Because, you already are.


Now, your book recommendation from me:

"Leadership and Self-Deception - Getting out of the box" by The Arbinger Institute.


Read it. Then you will absolutely KNOW why you OWN it all. And why you choose it.


And how to stop it.


SB

I had this long evocative post...but I'll just say this.

You know what you are doing; you know where it is heading. This is how you stop: Stop. Walk/run away. ignore this person. Tell your spouse everything that has transpired. Batton down the hatches and shore up the boundaries.

If you continue, you may very well experience a bit of enjoyment....and also devastation you can never undo. I did it in 2006. Just picture your DH's face as you sit on the couch telling the man you promised to love FORSAKING ALL OTHERS that you were with another man. Then imagine your kids knowing. If that doesn't motivate you to stop....something is seriously wrong.

It. Is. Not. Worth. It.

Okay I have to make some things clear here because obviously I did not before. First of all this OM as you are all referring to him has NEVER come on to me. He is funny person who jokes with everyone we work with. If anything I have flirted with him and hoped that he'd flirt back. So this man is not hanging around me waiting for me to come jump in his bed nor is he hitting on me. It's been nothing like that at all. To this very day he may very well have no idea that I'm actually flirting with him although as of the other day I think I made it clear. I am also an outgoing person who enjoys laughing and joking with my co-workers and I think up until the other day he took it as just that.

Secondly to all of you who keep telling me I need boundaries around men...I have never in my entire life done anything remotely like this. I am not stupid and I'm not a whore. I don't go around flirting with random men or anyone who gives me a freaking kind word once in awhile.

Another thing is that I am aware that I can choose to stop this. Why do you think I came on here? Do you think I wanted to be bad mouthed and called an irresponsible whore and then jump head first into an affair?? NO that's why I came here because I am confused and scared and want help.

Also I have never ever blamed anything on my husband. I have said over and over again that he is a wonderful man in every way. If I were to do anything which I thought I had made clear that I don't want to...it would never ever be his fault. I just feel like it's unfair to expect him to meet needs in me that maybe he just can't meet. That DOES NOT mean I want to go screw someone else thinking that they will be able to meet those needs. I don't believe that at all. So once again for the last time there is no blame being put on my husband. He is a wonderful man in every way possible.

Then there's all the hilarious joking about "finding yourself." I'm sorry if that's funny to some of you but it's not funny at all to me. I went from being a drug addicted mess to taken care of by my husband to then being a mother. I have never in the last decade taken the time to ask myself what I might want or need in life. I was too busy trying to make a good life for my husband and kids, I didn't want them enduring the things I did. So excuse me if it scares me to wonder if I could truly take care of myself on my own when I've never been out on my own ever. Or to wonder if maybe I should go to college or things like that. Or hell maybe I'll even try to start dealing with my mom's death which I've never given myself the chance to grieve over.

I understand that many of you have been hurt, I have been cheated on too and I KNOW how it hurts. Again this is why I came here because I want help. However to be talked down to as I'm a stupid whore without a care in the world except for myself, I think it's being judgemental.

Now don't go thinking I expected everyone to say I should go have an affair or that it's a good idea. Nor did I ever say that having an affair would give me self esteem although that's been said here as well. My god I haven't been able to sleep over this because it's so upsetting to me.

I just don't understand why only a few of you cannot see that a person can use insight instead of being judged so harshly. I actually got my answer from one of the earliest posts and when I read it I couldn't believe that I had been so stupid to have not realized it. My husband and I both know we don't spend enough time together however most parents we know with young children don't. It never occured to me that when I have a wonderful husband that I would still find myself seeking attention elsewhere simply because he and I aren't spending time together.

Is that stupid for me to not have realized that it was that serious? Well yes it probably was. Thank god though it makes perfect sense to me. This is the reason I came here seeking answers. I had hoped that I'd find someone who'd been in a similar situation who would maybe have some insight. Sometimes for some reason we cant see the most obvious things.

I thank those of you who truly tried to help me without judging me or trying to be hurtful. Some of you really helped. I would hope in the future that those of you who are so mean spirited and quick to jump to conclusions would maybe take a step back and ask yourself if you are honestly helping.
Especially to someone who has come here trying to get a grip on something so it doesn't get out of hand. I just think some of the stuff said was cheap shots and unneccessary.

Now in closing I also want to throw in a bit about another poster who like me had married and been with their partner when they were very young. This woman also talked of wondering about missing out on sexual experiences. One of you pretty much said that women who had experiences in the past were akin to farm animals having sex and called them cats out on the prowl or something like that. It was also said that sex could never be enjoyed unless in a serious relationship. I can't recall if this was a man or a woman who said this but either way I find it ridiculous.

I happen to know many many people who have had more than one or two partners before they settle down. Often times these are "gasp" one night stands even. Although this is nothing I ever did even in my teenage years while drinking and drugging I don't look down on people for it. How many men go around talking to eachother about how sex cannot be good unless in a committed relationship otherwise they are the same as farm animals blah blah. My god what century is this?

This may come as a surprise to you all but I have always been the type of girl who didn't sleep around. I had one boyfriend and lots of chances with other guys but I was just never into it. I saw lots of mostly girls getting their hearts broken because they mistakenly believed that the guy would love them if they would have sex with them. I always knew that was not the case. However I have also known people who were secure in themselves and fine with wanting nothing more than sex from a person. So if that's all two people are looking for then who the hell are we to judge??? Sure if it's a woman she's a whore out on the prowl if she's not in a serious relationship? Yeah I bet you'd really hold men to that same standard.

And just to make it clear I'm not saying this because I plan to "drop my panties" in the backroom for my coworker. I'm just pointing out that this is a pretty ridiculous bunch of statements to be made. By the way since my husband feels like he wishes he had more partners too does that make him a farm animal manwhore? Just checking?

Okay I swear I'm going to stop ranting now. Again thank you to the folks who seriously tried (and did) help me. I never planned on going any further with this and don't intend too now. Some of you really helped me to see exactly what I've been ignoring and put me on a path to fix it. For that I am forever grateful.

Ok so what is your plan? That is what I want to hear what are your plans? Are you going to tell your husband? Are you going to ignore this OM till you change jobs?

I see a lot of talk but yet I don't see anywhere that you are actually going to talk to your husband.

Pengy--most of the attitude that sex before marriage is wrong is because most of this site is populated by Christians. You simply won't change that point of view.

I agree with everything else said about the situation (IE, change jobs, tell your husband, et al) though.

Pengy - instead of writing long rants about how offended you are by people who are not afraid to tell you how your situation looks from outside - could you please answer GloveOils question: why did you not show this thread to your husband?

Pengy

I see there have been some very harsh answers to you - a lot of these people have been very hurt and have also spent a lot of time trying to help other people. They have learned that trying to reason with 'waywards' can be a waste of time, especially when the waywards are 'in a fog'.

I have not been around for so long and am still hopeful that you can turn yourself and your marriage around, like my husband and I have partly due to the information on this site. Finding out about my husband's affair was truly horrible, but hand on heart I had to admit even during the darkest days, I had known that our marriage was lacking and that we were vulnerable...

Does that sound familiar? We know our marriage is better now but how else could we have got here, loving each other having realised what we could have lost? Life-threatening illness for one of us or our kids? Maybe. Maybe not. Certainly not something I would have wanted either

You are so much luckier than us - you have found this site, with all its resources. You know that you don't want to hurt your husband or children but having an affair will also hurt you - my husband was almost in more pain than me at times due to his guilt.

And in practical terms, having an affair and cleaning up afterwards will cost you both an awful lot of time, money, energy etc etc. Just investing a little of that time, money, energy etc in your marriage and Harley materials now will turn it all around. Imagine that - a truly happy, fulfilling marriage with a man you know you love and children who have a fantastic role model for their own futures. You can do it. Do it now!

Hi Pengy,

I kindly offer you this:

Anatomy of Adultery - How it starts

What else is there to be said other than stop it. Stop it all and now. We cannot stop it for you. There are many of us who have been down that road and we didn't plan it either, it just happened. After reading this link, you will see how the adultery "just happens". Words we use are actually helping along this irresponsible dynamic. See, how we say it: it happens, we find ourselves, etc. Like we were bystanders.

I'm sure you know what is right and what is wrong. Stop the wrong.


See? You said that yourself.

If you wanted to stop you would.

Show your husband this thread. Clue him in on the health of HIS marriage.

Do something. Do something good and right.

I think she actually does not want to stop.

Citation from a book about affairs:

"The actions and thoughts of your spouse primarily originate from her need to attach to another person. Any behavior or concept that serves the purpose of maintaining the attachment will be valued. Others are discarded."

The behavior you described indicates you most certainly do not have boundaries around men. This is how you behaved around a MARRIED MAN:



This is your idea of "boundaries?" Would this man's wife feel the same way?



How many women do you know who brag or crow about promiscuous behavior? Why do you think you don't hear that? Ya know why? It is because they are ASHAMED. Every woman I know who catted around like an alley cat in heat does not feel like a better person for it, but a WORSE PERSON. Just keep that in mind when you imagine you are "missing something." You are not. That viewpoint completely misses the CAUSE of great sex. Great sex is not based on a barnyard ACT, but on the strength of the relationship. A jackrabbit can have sex with multiple partners, it is nothing special. What is special is great sex in a bonded, romantic relationship. I have never met a woman who was anything but ashamed and grieved about being picked up for a one night stand. ugh...

And yes, most folks do chuckle about the quest to "find yourself" because it is silly. As others have said, if you want to find yourself, go look in your own boots.

The harshness and "judgmentalism" you heard about having affairs and flirting is simply the unvarnished truth. And the truth is that affairs are very ugly. We see exactly where you are headed so you need to face the truth of where you are headed if you don't wake up, young lady. It is an ugly, ugly place that will ruin your life. Judgemental? Heck yes! It is a LACK OF good judgement that leads to affairs and the ruination of marriages and children's families.


Of course it's not unfair to expect your husband to meet your emotional needs. That is the foundation of a good marriage. As soon as one need is met outside of marriage, the others are soon to follow. I suspect if you show your husband your post and tell him you want to have a great marriage, he will get on board. But the first step is HONESTY. He won't know that you are in a very dangerous place unless you tell him. He has more right to see your post than anyone on this forum, so go show him!

pengy, you came here asking for help and folks sincerely want to help you. But you are going to have get honest and stop running from the ugly truth if you want help. The harshness you think you see is due to the fact that affairs are "harsh;" and that is exactly where you are headed. Right into the worst mistake of your life. Screaming about "judgementalism" when folks accurately assess your current path is just a diversion. Please put aside the defensiveness and listen up if you want to stop this train wreck.

Your thread title is revelatory.

Here's my answer to your 2 questions:
You are not in love with this man. You are in love with the reflection of yourself that you see in his eyes. You have to realise this is not reality, this is an image. Don't destroy your life and the lives of the people you love for that. You will hate yourself eventually if you do.

Of course you can, you just don't want to.