DO you understand what I am saying? I don't think that you do, if the above passage translates in your mind to

I was saying that the BH has the right to sue, if the DNA test shows him not to be the father. He would be within his legal rights to do that, but Dr Harley's recommendation is that he SHOULD NOT do that, if he wants to rebuild the marriage. It would invite OM into the marriage, permanently.

Well, with respect ttf, your feelings if you were the OM in this marriage are not relevant to this situation. We should stick to giving Harley-based advice here on MB.

Again, ttf, you are free to act according to YOUR conscience if there is ever an OC in your marriage. However, this poster came here for Marriage Builders' advice, and that is what i am giving. We cannot advise people based on YOUR conscience!

We are here to help save this marriage. Can you please try and give Harley-based advice to help do that?

You did not offend me, ttf, but I appreciate your apology. I am replying to your post because I want to defend my giving Harley-based advice, not because I am offended at you. My post is not about my feelings, except that I aim to help the original poster rebuild her marriage with the utmost compassion, care and protection for her BS and future child.

My concern is that BH would look at this as yet another invasion into his M. It's going to rock his world enough, to find out about this betrayal. I think it would compound a bad situation to invite a third party into the D-Day.

I was going to address this point myself:

"but during our foreplay there is a small chance that some semen entered my vagina. While intercourse never occurred "

Semen can mix in and leak out with the pre ejaculatory fluid before the orgasm is reached. If the sausage was in the oven or pe fluid touched the oven door then there is a chance.

To say that the sausage in the oven is not intercourse because of a non traditional finish is a very Bill Clinton response. Deliberately misleading is lying.

I hope you do not mislead/lie to your BH.

Another point is STD testing. You need to have it done before you resume SF with your BH. Because of the way you beat around the bush about what is intercourse this means that you allowed the OM to go bareback.

Actually, there is foreplay where the two, er, organs come in close proximity. It would not be considered intercourse.

Lady,

I've read what you call the "Rest of the Story". I don't understand your point in quoting it here. Are you suggesting that I quoted selectively to make my point, and that the rest of the article reveals different advice from that suggested earlier - not telling OM?

If so, could you explain HOW the "Rest of the Story" goes against my quoted section?

The portion that you quoted says nothing that contradicts Dr Harley's advice a paragraph or two earlier to keep OM away from OC, or his advice in the section quoted by MelodyLane:

"I recommend that at the time of birth, the other man not be mentioned on the birth certificate unless he demands it. That makes your husband the legal parent of the child...

...In almost all cases that I've witnessed, the OM isn't willing to be named on the birth certificate, pay the child support, or make the situation known to his family. Under those conditions, I highly suggest that he not be able to visit his child until he or she is an adult. If an attempt is made, I suggest getting a restraining order. While that policy seems very rigid and uncaring toward the child, the alternatives are usually disastrous. Having an old lover around, the cause of your husband's greatest sadness, has such an devastating effect on the marriage that few survive.
Having heard from some of the couples who have followed this way of thinking, and others who have done the opposite, I am confident that it is the best approach to your situation. "

Lady, you seem to be saying that I am advising wrongly in some way, but you haven't specified how.

Of course we do not know if Please's baby is OM's. I never suggested that we do know! I did, however, tell her not to suggest the possibility to OM if he does not already suspect. If Please and her H want to raise the child together, then the best scenario, as Dr Harley says above, is not to name OM on the birth certificate and NOT TO LET HIM KNOW about the child.

Also, I do not know why you are telling me to help(?) "in her endeavour to begin the process of O&H in her marriage". Have I said anything that goes against this endeavour? I have said nothing to please that suggests not being OH to her husband. Why are you making this request to me? It is obviously meant as a criticism of my advice.

I don't understand your meaning in the underlined section.

With regard to the rest:

It seems silly and pointless to me to make "bad law" on the basis of a few extremely hard - and rare - cases. If the life-threatening situation that you describe ever comes about, then the parents (not the mother and pseudo-father; please don't be so insulting to the man that will have done the hard work of raising this child. Do you call an adoptive father a 'pseudo-father?) will have to make their decision in the light of the options available to them then.

Many adopted children do not know their biological father's (and sometimes their mother's) identity, and medical science has to cope with this fact. Should the remotely possible circumstances you describe come about, they will have to be dealt with. The parents can contact OM and ask for help then, if they wish. That does not mean they have to do tell him now (or when the test results come out).

Please do not chide me for giving Harley-based advice to this poster on the Marriage Builders forum. I shouldn't have to defend what I have written against extreme hypotheticals; this is a marriage in crisis here, and the poster is here looking for MB help in saving it.

I just really dont want to spend any more time on the exact events that transpired. I will give the details to my H. Once the floodgates are open I will not be "deliberately misleading".

I didn't want to derail the thread (any farther), but as an adopted person I cannot let this slide. Not sharing DNA with someone does not make one a "pseudo-father." And the cases of a child having a life or death issue and needing to track down a bio-parent are tiny in number.

It's all moot anyway. Most likely the OP's child is not the OM's, and even though it's a sensational thing to argue about, it doesn't help the OP.

As a FWW, pleasehelp, I will tell you that the sooner you tell your BH the entire truth with a humble spirit, the sooner you can begin to do what needs to be done for recovery. After my A was over, OM and I promised to "take it to the grave." I bought SAA a few weeks later, and it broke my heart. As scary as it was to sit down and tell my DH, it was absolutely the right thing. Can you imagine living a lie like that for the rest of your life? And your BH will always feel this "what's wrong" nagging doubt because the lie WILL affect you....that is no way to live.

Take a deep breath, take his hand, and tell him the truth. Then work through it together.

LadyP,

I would like us to stop disrupting this thread with our own disagreements. I will say this here and if there is anything in it that you would like to explore, we could start a new thread.

With respect...

Your thoughts and feelings are NOT what you should be offering a poster whose marriage is in crsis, and in particular, a poster new to MB. A new poster especially needs ONE set of clear guidelines based on Dr Harley's instructions, not a selection of various thoughts and feelings from among which confusion they are left pick a course of action.

Dr Harley has experience of successfully coaching couples to overcome an affair and rebuild their marriages. You do not have his training, experience and track record. You should not be giving your personal advice on a thread seeking MB help after an affair. Your thoughts and feeling MIGHT WELL be wrong.

Dr Harley's vast experience leads him to advise NC after an affair, without exceptions. If you offer a poster advice that suggests any kind of contact then you are wrong to do so.

You are free to follow your own thoughts and feelings in your own marriage, should it ever fall victim to a affair, but you are WRONG to post your thoughts and feelings to someone here in marital crisis, if these thoughts go against Dr Harley's tried and tested advice. This board exists to help us apply Dr Harley's advice to the situations presented here. He is the marriage expert that people come here to learn from.

This post probably isn't the gentle reprimand that you would like, but it is intended to help you understand that new posters are harmed by conflicting opinions when they need clear guidance. This isn't just a forum to talk about marriages; this is Dr Harley's Marriage Builders forum.

You too, LadyP.

Wow, that was an awesome post, SC. The Pregnancy forum is in dire need of that message.

Hmmm.... you've got my ear...

Not sure if it could contribute to the 1% of doubt, though.

It's not like pre-schtuff is the black spiderman suit, crawling around, looking for a home...

411,

I can say this for sure, while you know that the child is very likely his, there is no way H will believe it, nor will he believe that you could get that close to having intercourse without intercourse. You will have to accept those two facts for some time to come, and you may have to get a lie detector test to .

As the other people on here are saying hold back nothing and give the absolute truth.

God Bless
Gamma

411, if you work with OM, you MUST quit that job TODAY. Why? Because every day that you see him (even if you don't interact) is contact. Once your BH finds out about your adultery, it will be the death of a thousand cuts knowing that you're going to work and seeing OM.

Part of recovery for a WW is to implement EP (extraordinary precautions) to make sure that something like this never happens again.

Have you read "Surviving an Affair"?

Do you think your BH will come here and post. We can help him too.

Have you told him yet? Why not?

:::scratching head:::



What did I miss? Who's pretending to be a parent, but isn't??

LadyP,

This just muddles things up even more, and risks deepening the insult. You haven't withdrawn your use of the term; you have provided a definition that says "false, fraudulent or pretending to be something it is not".

Is this definition intended to be a clarification of your meaning? Are you calling those who raise non-bio children "false, fraudulent or pretending to be something" - parents - that they are not? If so, this is an attack on those people for their loving care of children who might otherwise be abandoned.

If not intended as a clarification, then why provide this definition?