Thank you for the advice on what I should do. I guess what I'll say next may be just me venting, or begging for a pep talk, but I had a decent morning yesterday followed by a terrible afternoon and night, and usually I can wake up in the morning and feel motivated again, but I'm just not. I don't know if a "pep talk" will even help. I'm not looking for pity, either. That is something that I don't deserve. I know there's been a lot of discussion around here that may have been spurred by the whole polygraph debacle. Yes, taking the poly was a painful experience but it was in no way brought on my my DH. My actions, my decisions were why I took that poly. I was the reason. I don't blame him for it at all, any more than I can "blame" him for being unable to meet my needs now. Seriously, what rational person could blame the man for not "feeling" like meeting my needs, after what I did to him? I'd do anything that he needed me to do, if it would be a step on the road that helps us to recovery.

Which kind of brings me to the point I am at now. I am beginning to agree with DH that there is "no hope." We all know that there are some BS's for whom this level of betrayal is too great for them to recover from, and I think my DH is one of those. Not only did I betray him in the worst way possible, but I reopened wounds from his childhood. My Plan A, all the books I've read, all the things I have learned, all the things I have tried to put into place are not working. I am not talking about having my needs met here at all. I am talking about helping him to heal. I honestly don't even feel "Taker-ish" right now - I honestly enjoy giving to him. I have struggled with resentment before but that is not what I am feeling now. I don't know how to explain it. I'm not angry at him, I'm angry at myself.

I'm not sitting around beating myself up, GO, you've expressed before so eloquently how unproductive that is. I've still been working, I've been doing my Respect Dare and continuing to meet those needs I have been able to meet, although I know his intimate needs are not being met well because he has been so consistently in withdrawal. When I have the chance, I take it.

So I don't know if it is a case of me going all "Tommy Boy" on my hope and happiness, or allowing it to be "Tommy Boy"'ed for me. Maybe I am just weak. I'm not strong enough to continue a good, solid Plan A anymore. Physically, mentally, or emotionally. I withdrew last night because I was just spent. When we were in counseling, our therapist admonished me to stop expecting the worst and stop thinking of "what if" scenarios. What I mean by that is that there's this movie that plays in my head - not always the same, but close enough - where I come home and find DH packed and ready to go, or I come home and all his stuff is gone - and then my movie continues on to include my contingency plans - where I would go, what I would do, etc.

I am beginning to think that I need to implement that contingency plan. More than anything I want to help him heal, but maybe I am what is holding him back from healing. Every day I'm there in front of him, he's confronted with what I did and what a horrible person I am. If I remove myself from the equation maybe he will have a chance to heal. I feel like I am what is holding the process back. Maybe the best thing I can do to help him heal is to let him go.

I'm not talking about Plan B or D or even FU. If anything, it's an "F-Me" plan. What holds me back from making any decisions are the girls. I don't want to leave them. I don't know what to do. If I move out with them, I'm tearing them away from the only home they've ever known and their father, who loves them and who they adore. If I leave alone, then they lose their mother. But truthfully they are going to hate me when they grow old enough to realize that it was my actions that destroyed their family, so eventually I will lose them anyway. I don't know if I am strong enough to survive losing them and losing DH. I'm just in a really bad place right now and I don't know how to get out on my own.

I'll love DH forever. He was never a second choice to me. I know he sees it that way, he's told me. I could write volumes on how he is a better man than POSOM. I've realized something else, too. I have whined and cried, and b*tched and moaned on this thread about not "having my needs met" and my LB$ being "drained." But it's not. I am in love with my DH. I shouted it once from the top of a mountain. I'd climb every mountain there is, every hill, every building, he77 I'd paint it on the water tower outside my office. I want everyone to know how much I love him. I said at the beginning of my post that I'd do anything he needed me to do, if it was a step on the road that leads us to recovery. But maybe the best way I can love him is to let him go. Maybe the recovery he needs is not for "us" as a "couple", but for "us" as individuals.

Just catching up now and I haven't even read all the posts I missed, just your last post, wpg...our one computer is dead and I am on the World's Slowest Computer right now and it's hard for me to get on this site on it.

I'm so sorry you are hurting and in a bad place. I remember this place well. May I suggest to you that you keep going? I hope I am able to give you the pep talk you need, I'm going to try anyways.

I know you are tired and feeling hopeless...it's understandable. However you said you are in love with your H; what better way to show it than to keep giving to him even when he is unable to accept it right now? When I was in the same place your DH is in, my H's mantra was "I am not going anywhere. I love you and am going to continue proving that to you until you tell me to stop". I'm sure it was extremely hard, but it worked.



I agree with your counselor, I fear this is slowing you down. What if you changed that movie in your head to the one in which you and DH are madly in love and spending the rest of your lives together? What might that do for your psyche? Your motivation?

May I suggest you go back to one of my first posts to you, the one where I describe being a confident wife? Maybe that will help you right now?

Another thing:

Divorce is not any easier to heal from, wpg...it's a lie that it would be easier for him to heal with you gone. He would STILL need to heal from the affair AND he would need to heal from a D.

Don't start believing it would be easier for him to heal with you gone, it wouldn't.

(((hugs)))

Maybe you've been watching too many movies...
Reality is: There is no happy ending that comes BECAUSE of a divorce. Maybe in spite of a divorce, but not because of one!

IMO, You can continue to Plan A for the length of time JC recommended or you can fold.
There is not really any contingency plans available that I know of.

And your H being better off without you is a fantasy... Unless you died, he would still need to see you, deal with you, make decisions about your girls with you, etc., etc., etc....

If your H were suffering from an injury, and dealing with a difficult recovery all because of a car wreck in which YOU were the driver and YOU were at fault..... Would you be discussing the idea of ending the care that he needs?

You can either be a part of the confusion in your home or purpose to be part of the clarity by continuing with a plan that has a purpose.

Wow, I really like the car accident analogy. I guess seeing the driver of the car everyday would be a painful reminder but it is still better than being left alone to deal with the injuries yourself.

I appreciate the encouragement, I really do...I just need to let it sink in.

I like the car accident analogy too, tst...but taking it further, what if as the driver, the accident I caused is something that is so horrible, that I am not the proper person to provide care? For example, I might know CPR but I can't set broken bones - I mean, I guess I would attempt to find a specialist, which I've tried to do with Dr. H's materials. But if a person refuses the care of a specialist, then what? What if they don't want your help and care? I can't force him to do anything, I can't force him to receive or accept care - I can't control him.

I'll stay and continue doing what I am doing because it's the right thing to do, but no matter what, I still feel like I am not doing it the right way for H. To use DNM's analogy of chucking buckets of sand into a lake, I'm chucking buckets but the lake I made is mighty deep and there is a wicked undertow.

I do want to change that movie in my head. Today though I am having a difficult time seeing "good" possibilities.

I'm sorry for being so down and inflicting it on the board. But H and I don't talk. My friends and family have gotten tired of hearing it and they really can't understand as they've never been there. I end up defending my H to them when they can't understand why he can't "move forward." While I can never fully understand the depths of what a BS goes through, thanks to this forum I have a much better understanding of the perspective of a BS - which only means I end up arguing with people who are trying to "help" me...frustrating for both sides, lol...I don't know if that makes sense. Anyway what I am saying is I feel like I don't have anyplace other than here to talk to people who actually understand infidelity and what happens to a BS and to a M.

I am having a hard time being a "confident woman." MarriedForever, I used that same language in my vision statement in the Respect Dare. I put a copy of it in my journal. I flipped to it last night and read it and just cried. I don't feel confident at all.

I think you need to stop crying poor me.

Recovery is a multi year project.

BH still comes home every night.

You can't get a better sign then that to sit tight.

No one here, and there are a lot better writer's then me, can not give you advice that will make recovery 2 to 5 weeks instead of 2 to 5 years.

Just keep being you. The you that is doing what has to be done.

A ship in a storm just can't have it's helm let go. You have to hold your course and ride it out till the storm is played out.

Tomorrow is Friday.

The start of the weekend right.

Stay off MB for the weekend and just enjoy what you can. Make life pleasant for the family. Show BH what fun he can have if he joined in and what he would lose if he left.

The Road's advice is right on.

From a more practical perspective, look at it this way....

You aren't going anywhere TODAY, there would be arrangements to make, stuff to pack, explanations to give, etc.

So...enjoy TODAY

You still need to eat dinner and help with homework and cuddle in bed and talk to your children and clean up the house.

Enjoy that....TODAY

Then, tomorrow wake up and do it all over again for just that day

Don't imagine the future period. Just do today the best you can. Don't make any new problems and don't expect to solve the old ones....just do what you do and do it well and be happy for TODAY

Both personal and M recovery.

I'm sure those who have divorced would tell you that it takes years to recover from that, as well.

So think about it; you can take the easy way out, and maybe one day he would be happy without you.

Or, you can take the hard road, and be happy together.

The easy route has already caused so much unbearable pain, why not put the work in for ultimate happiness?

Wpg, when you're with an accident victim, I'm sure you would never abandon them just because you may not know how to set the broken bone.

As far as providing care..... just because he isn't showing you a smile doesn't mean it's not needed for him to heal. It's a process!

Makes me think of burn victims...

They do NOT appreciate the care they receive after suffering a severe burn injury, as a matter of fact many of them scream every time the "care" is administered. Without the care needed, an infection would set in and they would likely die. (The care burn victims receive is a topical cleaning/scrubbing every day in order to remove the dead skin cells from the burn area)

The care applied in burn cases, just as in recovering from infidelity, is necessary for the victim to heal. It just takes time and love.

No, you're right - I wouldn't. Even if it was someone I didn't know, I would stay with them until help arrived.

I sent him an email today where I told him that I had asked for advice b/c I wanted to expose to OMW. I told him what advice I received and said I would like to discuss it with him. I left the ball in his court.

I also was honest and told him about my fear, that I was hindering healing rather than helping. I tried to give him reassurance that should this be the case, I would not take anything from him (i.e. property) nor would I restrict his rights to the girls. However, before you guys 2X4 me for saying that (the hindering vs. helping thing) - I said the flip side to that is that he has told me (on 10/29, I saved the email, lol) that I deserve a second chance, and that if that was the case, then I want to SEIZE that. And I said:

At least with email I can get it all out there. This is probably going to sound ridiculously stupid, but lately since communication has been at a standstill, I've taken to talking to him after he's asleep. Pretty much saying the same sorts of things as in the email.

When I get out of work today I am off next week. So is DH. I've got plenty of time to focus on each day. Working on projects around the house - together. Focusing on the kids. Getting ready for the holidays. Taking each day at a time and living in the moment.

No fear for the future.

It takes a lot of reminding for me. Thank you all for helping to remind me.

Stubborn. I'm a card-carrying pessimist who has a tiny little optimist in the closet. I get the pessimism genetically, I think. Dad has the philosophy, "Expect the best, and you'll be disappointed. Expect the worst and you might be pleasantly suprised." So I do a lot (did I say A LOT???) of that. My tiny little closet optimist is the one who sneaks out and does the "Tommy Boy"-ing. She's an excitable little thing.

Just want to reiterate; DIVORCE/LEAVING IS IN NO WAY BETTER OR FASTER.

Yes, it's a comedy site. However, you will notice the studies referenced are linked in the article.

Synopsis;

1) It effects not just the couple divorcing, but their family and friends. Some relationships will not be able to continue due to the divorce.

2) You will both suffer withdrawal.

3) You will be less financially stable, and lonely (study cited states AS MUCH AS FOUR YEARS LATER). People were happier in an unhappy relationship, than no relationship at all

4) You will both have identity crises. Similar to what you go through with an A, but WITHOUT THE GROUNDING SUPPORT OF YOUR SPOUSE!

5) The stress involved CAN LEAD TO A SUDDEN HEART ATTACK. Yes, you can die of a broken heart.

6) The stress involved can damage your immunity and leave you vulnerable to disease... including cancer.


How's recovery sound now?

I don't know why, but your ownership of the "Tommy Boy" reference makes me smile. I just see it so much in your posts sometimes.

Just my opinion, but when you are talking to him while he is sleeping, you are at least practicing speaking to him openly and honestly.

On another note; I just got off of a 5 day depression/anger bender - what got me out? B vitamins. I'm going to do some Scientific Journal digging, and see if there has been any good studies on B vitamins and depression. It swung me around IN 1 DAY.

Going to buy some supplements this weekend and see if they keep me stable.

HHH, thanks for the link - it was an interesting read (along with the studies the article referenced).

The "Tommy Boy" thing just makes me laugh because it reminds me of DH. He loves movies like that. Used to annoy the heck out of me. Like the comedy I prefer is any less silly, "Monty Python," anyone??? Now it's just, well, it's a part of what makes DH who he is. That was a dumb thing for me to be annoyed about, anyway. It's like now, when my friends talk and they start in on the "complaining wife" routine about how their H didn't wash the dishes after they asked them to or left their dirty socks somewhere other than the laundry room, it BOTHERS me. I only wish my problems were that small. Ironically, they used to be that small. But then they got bigger and bigger, and we grew further and further apart, and then BLAM! I dropped the equivalent of a nuclear warhead into our M.

I started back on B and D supplements, myself. Tried the 5-HTP that Harmony had recommended, but I started getting this wierd ache in my hip joints. Stopped taking it and the ache has gone away. Although really, if I can just get back to regularly working out that will help my mood tremendously.

I'm going to test the limits of B vitamins once I pick the supplements up.

I have had 480% of the RDA of Niacin today without any heat or flushing.

Yesterday, I had like 1000% percent, no heat, sweating, or flushing, but I was giddy. Like happy, walking on clouds, but not like high.

FWW and I had a rough conversation, and it couldn't even dent my mood. I find that reassuring.

I'll post up if/when I find some research, and also post along with how things go when I start supplementing.

Bad news tonight - I just got off the phone with FIL's wife...I have to tell DH that his father is dying. He went to the hospital to see him this past Sunday - FIL had a seizure and they took him to the ER. I guess all I can do is just be here for whatever DH needs. I wish I could spare him any more pain. He's already had so much and it's my fault. I can't control this one but it just seems so freaking unfair for him to have to have more hurt.

We worked outside together most of the day today. He asked me this morning if I wanted to help him. I felt like the physical labor did us both some good.

Ahhhh, d@mn cancer sucks.

Saying a prayer for FIL & Your entire family.

{{{{{{{{{{{Wpg & DH}}}}}}}}}}}

Went to see FIL today. He's pretty bad. His wife took him home, and he's still going to radiation treatments but it is mainly to try and keep the tumors in his brain from growing and causing any more pressure in the skull. Once the radiation treatments stop, hospice is coming in. His wife told me tonight the drs say he won't make it to Christmas. I feel so awful for her, too, I asked her how she was holding up and she just started crying.

I don't know what to do for DH. I'm glad he was OK with me going with him today. When he went to the hospital last week he did not want me to go and told me so. I mean, even if I don't know what to do, I just want to be with him. Although I can certainly understand why he wouldn't want me with him; I can understand and I can't blame him at all that he doesn't feel safe and comforted with me anymore.

Otherwise, things are pretty much the same. Not really any better, but not really any worse, as far as things go. Same cycle of me getting an opportunity to meet intimate EN's followed by withdrawal on his part. We had a lot of time to ourselves this week, since we both took vacation and the kids were still in school Mon-Wed. He is still here and still committed to and interested in doing projects around the house.

My tiny little inner optimist hasn't even come out to get Tommy Boy'ed this week. I don't know, even with us being together a little more this week I've just had a general "down" feeling about everything. I woke myself up one morning crying and started apologizing to a sleeping DH for being a worthless wh*re. I'm still doing what I can to meet his needs, avoiding LB's, and trust me, good SF can still put a smile on my face...but I don't know...while I'm used to the pattern of say, withdrawal after SF, so I kind of expect it now, that doesn't mean it doesn't still sting a little, KWIM? Right now I'm just fixated on getting through Christmas. And I think that's the key for me, breaking the 6-month Plan A into smaller, more manageable bits.

I hate that my work is heating up the next 2 weeks. I enjoyed vacation and being able to be home with DH, even though we still aren't in a great place right now, I'd rather be with him than anywhere else.

Seems like now we have a very similar M to what we had pre-A. The difference being that I'm doing my darndest to apply MB. I don't want what we had pre-A.

Also, no response from him to the email I sent him last Friday about exposing to OMW. DH and I have had numerous chances this week to talk. I don't want to push him to talk about "it" as I don't want to make withdrawals from his LB$, but I'm kind of now to the point where I've psyched myself up on this thing and I want to stake this freaking affair vampire for good. Stake it and drag the SOB out into the sunlight and roast it.

" don't know what to do for DH. I'm glad he was OK with me going with him today. When he went to the hospital last week he did not want me to go and told me so. "

Your wearing BH down. Keep it up.

Your in a marathon not a sprint.

Keep helping him with this stuff when you can. Even if all you do is silently hand him a utility knife or tape measure when he needs it, sounds like this is RC for him.
At one MC session, early-on after D-day, when the MC asked us each what outcomes we wanted, my wife choked out through her tears, "I want my confident husband back." I'd wager that "worthless wh*re" isn't the identity your H wants you to be assuming. It never hurts to keep apologizing, but self-abasement isn't a positive, and it's no short-cut to where you want to get vis-a-vis your husband. Remember that CS Lewis quote from awhile back?
You've stumbled onto something important. A couple of months after D-Day, when I was feeling like my own female version of your "worthless wh*re", a friend of mine told me, "[Glove], sometimes you just have to say, "God, get me through the next 5 minutes" twelve times in a row in order to make it through an hour." (BTW, DW & I went to that friend's 50th b-day party last night. He's been battling cancer for 3 years now, and he's on oxygen because of what it's done to his lungs. He's had a lot of experience putting that advice into practice, and even back then, almost two years ago, he knew what he was talking about. Whenever I get to feeling too sorry for myself, I think of folks like him.)There are no silver bullets in recovery. Telling OMW about the A is a step that will help your H only if/when your H decides that he wants you to proceed with it. You've done the right thing by offering & by allowing H to make the choice re: if/when/how to tell. That's all you can control for the time being, as far as that issue's concerned.